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CVO Technical => Twin Cam => Topic started by: mfgreen on June 20, 2003, 09:13:28 AM
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I think that either the Race Tuner or the Power Commander would provide my bike with a significant amount of power and torque. Can you help me decide on which way to go? Thanks for your input.
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i called my dealer, and i was informed that a powercomander will void the warenty, they said that the EFI tuner kit was the way to go, as long as you have at least 1000 miles on the bike.
i also found out i have an issue with the chip download that was done. i'm waiting for a call back from the dealer. but it apears that they installed "Screamin' Eagle
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Everybody else with EFI ECM upgrades ought have this checked out and post results of their findings.
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dealer just called me back, they said their computer shows the "Chip" used as being a 1450/1550 stage I but the will put it on the dyno next week and pulg it into the diagnsotic computer anf figure out for sure what it is and if it was the right mapping to use,
will update the saga next week
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i checked my plugs today, and the visual test says its running a bit lean, we'll have to see if the scanalyzer agrees with me
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I have the Race Tuner. My bike ran better from the moment it was installed. It's smoother and doesn't bump the rev limiter at 5800. I have a set of Reinharts which need to be installed this week (along with a SE air cleaner). I'll post if there is significant improvement. Insofar as the Race Tuner - I'd install it again in a heartbeat.
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My dealer swears by the Race Tuner kit as far as maximising performance. I am going to have White Brother's tuneable pipes installed with a K&N air filter plus the kit. We'll see what the dyno tells us then. I hope the sound will be satisfactory, but not obnoxious.
Stroker
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dealer checked the code and told me the "chip" is 32847-02 which i cant seem to find in the HD online catalog, sems the girl i spoke to last week was reading the part number for the air kit which is the same for 88/95/103 applications. so i have the right code according to HD, i also switched to SYN-3 and added an oil pressure gauge the motor is running smoother even in the 95+ temps i was riding in. MPG was 43 [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
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dealer checked the code and told me the "chip" is 32847-02 which i cant seem to find in the HD online catalog, sems the girl i spoke to last week was reading the part number for the air kit which is the same for 88/95/103 applications. so i have the right code according to HD, i also switched to SYN-3 and added an oil pressure gauge the motor is running smoother even in the 95+ temps i was riding in.
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dealer checked the code and told me the "chip" is 32847-02 which i cant seem to find in the HD online catalog, sems the girl i spoke to last week was reading the part number for the air kit which is the same for 88/95/103 applications. so i have the right code according to HD, i also switched to SYN-3 and added an oil pressure gauge the motor is running smoother even in the 95+ temps i was riding in.
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Heres the breakdown on both:
Both void the warranty.
Both have excellent features in their own right.
Race Tuner is awesome in that it allows you to change rev limits, map cold idle, and does not ride along with the bike. It requires turning off the bike to make every change, and does not program the bike while it is running.
Powercommander is cool because it allows you to change the fuel and spark while the bike is running on the dyno. This is because it is a second computer. If the tuning center has the Tuning Link software, you are in business. With this software, the computer (Dyno Computer not ECM on bike) basically writes the map.
With both products, if the Dealer/Shop/Tuning Center doesn't have an eddy current brake on the dyno and an emissions analyzer, all they can do is map for 100% roll ons. What good is that if the body of the map (Your idle, cruise, midrange) are off. If they are lean the bike will run hot, ping, sneeze. If they are rich the bike will use fuel, oil (if it's really rich), be sluggish and blubber. If they are mapping by seat of the pants, GOOD LUCK.
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32847-02 is not a part number.
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do you happe to know what the calibration number should be?
Looking at your profile you have a 1550 FLHRSEI, correct?
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Naitram,
The numbers you want are:
Cartridge Part No. 32846-02A
Calibration ID 32853-02A
This is for 1550 Stage II Big Bore Kit P/N 29775-02.
The 32847-02 part number is for 1550 Stage I.
Who is your dealer? I am from Massachusetts also.
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i have been dealing with tibbys in springfield, but i'm gonna talk to another dealer about this. who have you been using?
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Kelly's in Billerica.
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they are close to where i work, i was gonna talk to them and see what they have to say
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Let us know how you manke out. The link below will list all EFI download options.
http://mysite.freeserve.com/HDtechtips/1/2002_06_10.pdf
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i spoke to the service department today at kellys and they siad i should definatley have a stage II calibration.
i called my dealr ( Tibby's ) back and told them this and hinted that i really dont expect to be charged another $150 to fix their mistake. i was told they will research it wiht H-D tech and call me back today. i'm not going to hold my breath
if they dont get bak to me i'm gonna have Kellys recalibrat and i'll send the bill back to my dealer
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Have scheduled my 2002 SERK for new SE pipes, hi-flow air cleaner and chip upgrade July 14th. Interested to see what your dealer tells you from H-D. After changing pipes, air cleaner and chip on my Electra-glide, I HAD to upgrade my SERK.
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i just got a call back from tibby's after checking with H-D tech support they agree i have the wrong calibration, i'm taking it in next thursday night for a recalibration
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i just got a call back from tibby's after checking with H-D tech support they agree i have the wrong calibration, i'm taking it in next thursday night for a recalibration
If you are intending to use the Race Tuner, the performance calibrations are included in the software. Just so you are not taken by surprise, your bike may spit/cough and have a surge even with the Stage II download with the exhaust you are running. Just a heads up. ;D
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i dont currently have plans for the race tuner, but thaks for the heads up
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i've been reprogramed, i now have the Stage II mapping
bike seems to run smoother and rev up quicker and my milage seems to be improving, but i wont know for sure until my next tankfull, and throtel response seems much better
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i've been reprogramed, i now have the Stage II mapping
bike seems to run smoother and rev up quicker and my milage seems to be improving, but i wont know for sure until my next tankfull, and throtel response seems much better
The miracle of appropriate mapping [smiley=biggthumpup.gif]
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gassed up today and did the numbers. 44.6 MPG this tank was mostly highway avg speed 80-85 with some stop and go city riding, this same type of riding before the reprogram would have got me 35-37 MPG
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After reading all the info, I decided to go with the Race Tuner, for two main reasons. First, the idea of cutting into 100 year anniversary sheet metal to install the tray for the add-on Power Commander for my FatBoy was not an option. Second, the versatility and adjustability for a guy who likes to tinker in Advanced Mode is too much to give up.
But here is a question. I would like to be able to keep a file of my stock 2003 ECM program on the computer, but do not know if it is possible. My car fuel injection programs give you this option, so that you can restore the original program when you go to the dealer for service; no warranty issues that way. This same logic applies to my SERK, plus I would just like to be able to restore it to factory original. Any ideas? Thanks.
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IMHO, race tuner is the best thing out there with PC III a close second. I have 1 RT and 2 PC units..3 diff. bikes, not all on the same one! LOL
However using the RT, it will take your dyno guy longer to get everything just right because he can't do on-the-fly adjustments with the engine running like you can on the PC unit.
I have noticed some shops just recommend what they are familar with which is generally the PC unit because it has been around longer and the sofware in alot of dynos are set up for the PC.
It also takes more knowledge and skill to do a good job with the RT unit.
If any shop looks you in the eye and tells you the PC unit can do everything the RT unit can do, then vote with your feet by leaving that shop alone.
The ability to fine tune VE numbers by cylinder, warm up enrichment etc. etc etc. are only found in the RT unit.
Yes, you can download the actual map in the bike before changing anything and save it under any name you wish.
My SERG is an 01 with the Magneti efi and they do not offer the RT unit. I HAD to go with the PC unit. I then had to also buy the HD 103 stroker map cartridge in order to get enough fuel into the bike. This is because it has a 116 inch S&S kit on it and the PCIII unit can only modify what is already in the ECM program.
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I HAD to go with the PC unit. I then had to also buy the HD 103 stroker map cartridge in order to get enough fuel into the bike.
Ummm, no. The PCIIIR would more than deliver enough fuel. It's the rev limit that you change with the H-D cartridge. If someone told you it was fuel, they scammed you.
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Uhh Sorry ONE S.E.
You are wrong one this one, in several ways.
First of all, the "rev limiter" has nothing to do with AFR (air fuel ratio) and secondly the MAIN reason you install a map cartridge is to modify the injector pulse-width duration to change the amount of fuel you deliver to the cylinder. There are also anti knock settings, spark advance settings etc etc etc.
I stood right there with my (very good and honest) dyno guy when we could not get enough fuel into the 116, best we could get was 11 - 12 AFR. You may or may not know it, but this is a LEAN condition. This was at the MAX settings on the PC unit.
I then drove about 100 miles round trip to GET the 103 map cartridge and bring it back to the guy. This is because they did not have it in stock at the dealer where I get my dyno work done. I watched him load the 103 cartridge and ONLY THEN could we get the AFR in line along with HP and torque.
There is a very logical reason for this. It is because the PC units only MODIFY the injector pusle coming out of the ECM by up to 150% of what is ALREADY PROGRAMMED into the ECM.
I.E. If your ecm is programmed to a 10 MS injector pulse duration, then the PC unit can only modify that to 15 MS. (10 x 150% = 15. To program the ECM for a 103 versus a 95, you obviously need a longer injector pulse width duration.
1) Before the 103 cartridge: Lean AFR with PC set at max of 150%.
2) After 103 cartridge: correct AFR with PC set around 130% or less depnding upon ACTUAL AFR.
nuff said.
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Using the race tuner I installed calibration #105hx020 in my SERK, only modified so far for a lower idle sequence. The modifications to the bike so far are the Vance and Hines Oval slipons and the Arlen Ness air cleaner setup. This combo, pipes, air cleaner, and the programming really, really woke this baby up. Plus the lower idle helps give you back some of that traditional Harley lope.
I read the online manual and was able to do the programming just fine. However, I wanted to save my original factory-installed program before changing anything and could not figure out how to do it. Before I reprogrammed, I checked with my friendly HD mechanic, and he stated that there was no way to save the original program. Sounds weird to me. Not sure if I missed something. I would really like to have had it for originality purposes. Was there a way to save it, does anybody have the original 2003 SERK programming?
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This limitation with the PC is but another reason to avoid it in the first place and go with the Race Tuner.
SERK03
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O.K I now have Rineharts, Ness Big Sucker air cleaner and the P.C.III. I downloaded Map M807-089 into the P.C.III Which matches my 02 SERK 95. The bike runs great, big improvement over stock. Here is my three part question 1) I live in Reno NV which is at about 5000 feet . Will the computer adjust for that ?. 2) Did I choose the best download for my bike? 3) WHAT SHOULD I DO NEXT?.
I LOVE THIS SITE !
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I'm going to add the race tuner to my bike. I want to make sure I got the right part # before I buy it online (p/n 32107-01C). Thanks for any help!!
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Stickman the fuel injection will adjust for air density, to know if it is the best map have it dynoed and us the race tuner to make it perfect. All bikes are different and a one map fits all ain't so. What next hey it's your bike.
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STICKMAN:
I'M GLAD TO HERE THAT YOUR BIKE IS RUNNING GOOD! UNLESS YOU FEEL LIKE YOU WANT TO CONTINUE FIDDLIN YOU PROBABLY ARE FINE RIGHT WHERE YOU ARE. HERE ARE A COUPLE OF THINGS TO CONSIDER.
YOUR MAP DOWNLOAD WAS CALIBRATED FOR WHATEVER ALTITUDE WHERE THE MAP WAS MADE.
ALL BIKES ARE JUST A LITTLE DIFFERENT
DYNOJET AUTHORIZED FACILITITES CAN ADJUST AIR/FUEL "UNDER LOAD" WHICH MAY MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
IGNITION TIMING IS ALSO A FACTOR. IF YOU HAVE A USB VERSION OF THE PC, IT ALSO CAN BE ADJUSTED,
DID YOU CONSIDER HAVING THE BIKE CUSTOM TUNED? [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
I'M ALSO IN RENO... MAYBE WE CAN TALK SOME MORE.
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PCC,
Thanks for the info, I am planning on bringing it down to Mark & Brad at Freedom Cycles to get it dialed in. Have they done any work on your bike?
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Couple quick questions, where is the best place to buy the Race Tuner and how much for everything? I have just bought a used SE RK and then bought the air intake and racing mufflers so I thought that was all I was going to do. Well, after reading these posts, I am almost ready to go forward with the RT and remap the bike. We'll seel. Thanks for the help.
RB
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Couple quick questions, where is the best place to buy the Race Tuner and how much for everything?
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Couple quick questions, where is the best place to buy the Race Tuner and how much for everything?