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CVO Technical => Twin Cam => Topic started by: Proctor on November 29, 2010, 03:47:47 PM
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Here is one possible reason. I bought my 2010 SESG and had an engine build with only one mile on the motor. We took it from the dealership to the trailer to the garage. Then from the garage to the trailer to the builder. Still showing only one mile. This is what my cylinder walls looked like out of the factory. Luckily we tore the engine apart, installed new pistons and bored .10 over. This engine would have been a short lived oil burner.
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Never seen a cylinder pic with 1 mile on it. Do you think running it would have gotten rid of those spots?
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That's rust. Yes running it would have cleaned off the rust, but it would have scored the walls and the rings would have not seated properly.
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That's rust. Yes running it would have cleaned off the rust, but it would have scored the walls and the rings would have not seated properly.
I once had a tech tell me that he has pulled big bore cylinders out of the boxes that looked like that as well.
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To reply to the thread...no, my 110 does not require oil additions between 4K mile changes. I broke it in as HD manual recommended.
T
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Here is one possible reason. I bought my 2010 SESG and had an engine build with only one mile on the motor. We took it from the dealership to the trailer to the garage. Then from the garage to the trailer to the builder. Still showing only one mile. This is what my cylinder walls looked like out of the factory. Luckily we tore the engine apart, installed new pistons and bored .10 over. This engine would have been a short lived oil burner.
That is not, a pretty picture. :(
Scott
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Typical mass production engine. Blue printing can find all types of problems.
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It's also one of those things that becomes much more common when sales are slow and production is cut back. When you shut down operations for periods of time to balance inventories, lots of parts can wind up sitting around. If things aren't planned well, you can wind up with freshly machined parts sitting around on pallets waiting for assembly. Places with good quality standards wouldn't let that happen, or would take actions to protect the parts from corrosion. I don't think I have to explain my feelings about Harley's "quality system".
Jerry
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Another Good Point!! :vrolijk_11:
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Typical mass production engine. Blue printing can find all types of problems.
No doubt in my mind... these "blueprinted" crate engines offerred en-masse from manufacturers mustr suffer similar issues.
I have a friend who runs a small local machine shop, that does primarily custom, one-off motors..
Someone brought him a "crate" SBC 383 to look over. The short story is nothing was built to the spec the builder advertised. This thing would not have lasted... in the end, they would up tearing the motor down to the block, correcting bore errors, ring gaps, clearances, etc to make it right.
So.. crate motors offer good deals.... or do they?
I'm just dissapointed that the SE parts coume out of the box looking like that, as if no protective coating is applied after machining is finished?
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No doubt in my mind... these "blueprinted" crate engines offerred en-masse from manufacturers mustr suffer similar issues.
I have a friend who runs a small local machine shop, that does primarily custom, one-off motors..
Someone brought him a "crate" SBC 383 to look over. The short story is nothing was built to the spec the builder advertised. This thing would not have lasted... in the end, they would up tearing the motor down to the block, correcting bore errors, ring gaps, clearances, etc to make it right.
So.. crate motors offer good deals.... or do they?
I'm just dissapointed that the SE parts coume out of the box looking like that, as if no protective coating is applied after machining is finished?
If you think a little rust is bad, try taking a dozen cylinders out of the cartons and measuring them. Then consider the fact that H-D and it's dealers sell this stuff as finished product, just bolt it on and fire it up. There were reports a couple years back, when all the 110 cylinder and head gasket issues were widespread, that some places found severe taper in over half of the replacement cylinders supplied by Harley right out of the carton. That was in those few places that actually measure stuff before they install it; wonder how many got installed with no checking at all?
As for crate engines, unless you're buying something from a highly reputable racing engine builder, I would never assume the engine was actually blueprinted. Most likely it was assembled the same way a regular production engine is assembled, with parts out of regular bins that are assumed to be within normal manufacturing specs but not individually measured and select fitted to mating parts. In other words, if it's within the broad tolerances it's good to go, versus a true blueprinting job that tries to set everything at nominal dimensions.
Jerry
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If you think a little rust is bad, try taking a dozen cylinders out of the cartons and measuring them. Then consider the fact that H-D and it's dealers sell this stuff as finished product, just bolt it on and fire it up. There were reports a couple years back, when all the 110 cylinder and head gasket issues were widespread, that some places found severe taper in over half of the replacement cylinders supplied by Harley right out of the carton. That was in those few places that actually measure stuff before they install it; wonder how many got installed with no checking at all?
As for crate engines, unless you're buying something from a highly reputable racing engine builder, I would never assume the engine was actually blueprinted. Most likely it was assembled the same way a regular production engine is assembled, with parts out of regular bins that are assumed to be within normal manufacturing specs but not individually measured and select fitted to mating parts. In other words, if it's within the broad tolerances it's good to go, versus a true blueprinting job that tries to set everything at nominal dimensions.
Jerry
The only crate engine I ever trusted exclusively was a 540 Merlin from Bill Mitchell (wia world products)
I can see a Shafiroff race engine, but there are so many that offer a "crate engine" that includes specs, and some flat out dont even come close to that spec... I wonder if HD's 110 and 120 come like that out of the box as well? (answer~ probably)
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How'd you get one with one mile? Mine have all had around 6. Current 110 used about 4 ounces of oil between 5000 mile changes. I changed it first @ 1000 miles, 2nd time @ 5000 and last time @ 10,000. Consumption has been the same each time. I like RPM's, bike will see 6000 rpm every time it is ridden, several times and so far has been no problem. I have 12500 miles on it now.
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is it possible possible bike was sitting around a long time and due to change in temp condensation.
one mile is possible as my bike had about that when it came out of the crate, 4km when delivered to my home off the dealers truck after he rode it to fill the tank
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is it possible possible bike was sitting around a long time and due to change in temp condensation.
one mile is possible as my bike had about that when it came out of the crate, 4km when delivered to my home off the dealers truck after he rode it to fill the tank
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How'd you get one with one mile? Mine have all had around 6. Current 110 used about 4 ounces of oil between 5000 mile changes. I changed it first @ 1000 miles, 2nd time @ 5000 and last time @ 10,000. Consumption has been the same each time. I like RPM's, bike will see 6000 rpm every time it is ridden, several times and so far has been no problem. I have 12500 miles on it now.
Out of the box they have ~1 mile... at least mine did.
normally after dealer prep they take it out for a spin to check. Mine never went that far.... out of the box, into the service bay, out of the service bay onto the sales floor, then out the door to get rained on. :oops:
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Here is one possible reason. I bought my 2010 SESG and had an engine build with only one mile on the motor. We took it from the dealership to the trailer to the garage. Then from the garage to the trailer to the builder. Still showing only one mile. This is what my cylinder walls looked like out of the factory. Luckily we tore the engine apart, installed new pistons and bored .10 over. This engine would have been a short lived oil burner.
why did you take a brand new 110 and build it? just curious.............
I like the powerband on my 110 with the pipes, intake and SEPT
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why did you take a brand new 110 and build it? just curious.............
I like the powerband on my 110 with the pipes, intake and SEPT
I'm kind of a gear head speed freek at heart. I just sold a custom Ninja ZX-14 and a ZX-10R. We were going to build a larger engine, but we couldn't find jugs that matched the CVO engine color, so I told him to build a bad ass 110. Plus high compression and high lift cams make a mean idle!
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I'm kind of a gear head speed freek at heart. I just sold a custom Ninja ZX-14 and a ZX-10R. We were going to build a larger engine, but we couldn't find jugs that matched the CVO engine color, so I told him to build a bad ass 110. Plus high compression and high lift cams make a mean idle!
I hear ya.....just getting old I guess LOL