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CVO Technical => Intake/Exhaust/ECM => Topic started by: UltraPolecat on January 20, 2007, 09:52:52 AM
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:( Got my bike back from tuning after the 575 cams were installed and noticed the RH muffler (SE 65115-98B) was badly blued. Some discussions were held with my tuner [smiley=furious3.gif] and their claim is this is "normal" as the SE mufflers on stock headers are quite restrictive.
I was planning on changing pipes later as I have not yet made up my mind which way to go but it seems like I may have to decide sooner.
So the question is should these muffs turn blue when being dyno'd or is this just dealer BS? These guys have always treated me well but this time I may have had a taste of what several others have complained about.
Is there any way to remove this bluing?
Trying to figure out just how nasty I need to be.
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I would tell you that it's "normal" enough that you don't have a leg to stand on for a formal complaint. I had a dyno one time with SE mufflers that had the PAT baffles installed and they are not restrictive at all. They blued badly, plus the guy that put them back on after the motor build didn't clean the finger prints off. That was the worst looking set of mufflers I have ever seen. I complained, but to no avail. Live and learn.
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Polecat,
Bluing usually represents a lean, or very lean condition. That may be "normal", at that Dealership, but I assure you it is not, across the board. Later--HUBBARD
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Thanks guys for your responses. Hub, I know you have been down to Tilleys before so your thoughts carry extra weight too. My first disappointment there and I have spent a pile in that joint. After talking with JR I am going to replace them with some Fat Cats. Hope they dont blue up as well. :( Sure hope I don't have to go to Memphis to get the thing dyno'd!
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Thanks guys for your responses. Hub, I know you have been down to Tilleys before so your thoughts carry extra weight too. My first disappointment there and I have spent a pile in that joint. After talking with JR I am going to replace them with some Fat Cats. Hope they dont blue up as well. :( Sure hope I don't have to go to Memphis to get the thing dyno'd!
Like Hub said, it's usually caused by an overly lean mixture...unfortunately, with the exception of a few pipe/muffler manufacturers, they put a disclaimer right on their adds that they are not responsible for blueing as that is a result of tuning of the motorcyce and not the manufacturing of the pipes/mufflers.
Good luck with the D&D's but find a reputable tuner in the area, that will set that bike up right for you....
Cheers [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif],
Red
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Thanks guys for your responses. Hub, I know you have been down to Tilleys before so your thoughts carry extra weight too. My first disappointment there and I have spent a pile in that joint. After talking with JR I am going to replace them with some Fat Cats. Hope they dont blue up as well. :( [highlight]Sure hope I don't have to go to Memphis to get the thing dyno'd![/highlight]
Come on down!!! We have a great tuner and I got a place you can stay....right next to the goats and across from da pigs! ;D [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
JR [smiley=bananarock.gif]
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Hey JR!
A great offer. I do love Memphis. The only problem is a long trip with a box of pipes strapped to my back!!
I have heard a lot of great things about your dealer there. But Tilleys here has always been good to me in the past. Gonna give them one more shot. I may eat those words though... :(
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Like Hub said, it's usually caused by an overly lean mixture...unfortunately, with the exception of a few pipe/muffler manufacturers, they put a disclaimer right on their adds that they are not responsible for blueing as that is a result of tuning of the motorcyce and not the manufacturing of the pipes/mufflers.
There's a lot of opinions out there about chrome and heat dicoloration. It's really just a combination of physics and chemistry. Get chrome plating above 900 degrees F and it will discolor. Exhaust gases at the head are routinely above 900 degrees. As for lean conditions causiing it, apparently it can be caused by rich conditions as well. This from the Khrome Werks website:
"Is exhaust bluing a warrantable condition?
No. All chrome plated steel exhaust pipes or mufflers will "blue" or discolor when the surface temperature reaches 900°F. This can occur if the fuel mixture is too rich. Instead of the charge burning mostly in the combustion chamber, the mixture continues to burn after the exhaust valve opens, down the pipe, causing extreme heat and bluing of the metal and its plated surface in the most restrictive areas - most commonly the bends or the baffle area. Cleaning products, such as Blue Buster™, are available and when properly used are quite effective in removing most discoloration from pipes. Heat shields are now available for 3" mufflers."
In my experience, you can lessen but not completely eliminate discoloration, regardless of how well the motor is tuned. Painting the inside of new pipes with high-temp paint helps some. But heck, when I first started riding, folks liked that blue/gold color around the heads--it meant the bike actually got ridden. Back then, those who didn't like the blueing wrapped thin copper wire around the top of their pipes to act as a secondary heat sink but not even that stopped it entirely. Most though, saw it as a badge of honor sort of thing. Like faded Levi's as opposed to brand new. Times have changed. And that's why heat shields have gotten larger and larger.
Now if you're getting discoloration down around the mufflers, there might be something to complain about, chrome-wise, or something wrong elsewhere.
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Hey JR!
A great offer. I do love Memphis. The only problem is a long trip with a box of pipes strapped to my back!!
I have heard a lot of great things about your dealer there. But Tilleys here has always been good to me in the past. Gonna give them one more shot. I may eat those words though... :(
I'm sorry to hear that, Polecat. Did you talk to Tilley about your situation? Did Neil tune your Motor? They have always treated my "LedSled", like it belonged to them. Later--HUBBARD
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:(
Is there any way to remove this bluing?
Trying to figure out just how nasty I need to be.
Ultra, have you considered running a set of muffler shields to cover the bluing? I don’t recall off hand the specific application of the shield to the muffler you list; maybe it’s worth considering.
djkak
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I'm sorry to hear that, Polecat. Did you talk to Tilley about your situation? Did Neil tune your Motor? They have always treated my "LedSled", like it belonged to them. Later--HUBBARD
Only spoke so far with Toby but I suspect Don or John will be next. I dropped it back off and it should be ready today. Like I said before, they have always taken good care of me but this time rubbed me wrong. To see a muffler blued half way back took me quite by surprise. Dean tuned it, maybe thats the problem...
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Ultra, have you considered running a set of muffler shields to cover the bluing? I don’t recall off hand the specific application of the shield to the muffler you list; maybe it’s worth considering.
djkak
Thats actually a good idea I had not thought of. Wonder if the stock ones will work? I still have them. Thanks! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
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Hey djkak!
I put the stock heat shields over the SE muffs, and they fit perfectly.
Problem solved. . .for now. Until I have to scratch the D&D Fatcats itch!! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
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Hey djkak!
I put the stock heat shields over the SE muffs, and they fit perfectly.
Problem solved. . .for now. Until I have to scratch the D&D Fatcats itch!! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
You will love the D&D Fatcats [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] Easy install and come with heatshileds already installed and use stock mounts with no fitment issues [smiley=coolblue.gif]
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Only spoke so far with Toby but I suspect Don or John will be next. I dropped it back off and it should be ready today. Like I said before, they have always taken good care of me but this time rubbed me wrong. To see a muffler blued half way back took me quite by surprise. Dean tuned it, maybe thats the problem...
Can't help you there, Polecat. [smiley=nixweiss.gif] Neal is the only one to ever wrench my Motor. Hope everything works out good for you. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] Later--HUBBARD
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Thanks Hub,
I guess the next time my bike casts a shadow there it will be Neal or nobody. Life is too short to deal with the second string!
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Thanks Hub,
I guess the next time my bike casts a shadow there it will be Neal or nobody. Life is too short to deal with the second string!
Amen. And it gets expensive doing so. [smiley=nervous.gif]
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Hey djkak!
I put the stock heat shields over the SE muffs, and they fit perfectly.
Problem solved. . .for now. Until I have to scratch the D&D Fatcats itch!! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
Fatcat, fatdog, hell even the skinny ones, I treat ‘em all the same. A little flea powder usually takes care of the itch; although the powder won’t keep my fatcat from sniffing all the gas caps in the garage. Now if we could just find a way to shorten the winter and crank things up around here a little. :)
Good to hear the covers fit ok.
djkak