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[Twolanerider]

I agree with you Don. I am not convinced, however, that the factory is providing those closely matched components you're alluding to due to EPA requirements.

You are preaching to the choir there Hoist.  More accurately their matching is mated for EPA requirements (a different goal than day to day riding performance and economy).  Still can make them even worse rather than better doing hit and miss parts swaps though.  This stuff was easier when all we had was carbs to screw with  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] .

[Twolanerider]

[BLM777]

Hoist, not trying to knock any particular idea.

[Fired00d]

Couldn't agree more Don.

[BLM777]

Amen to that!!! If you eliminate all known weakness then you have a safe/reliable motor that will last you a lot longer then any warranty. JMHO.

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

Exactly the same conversation I've had with several friends who'll step up for a 35k toy and then choke when it comes to taking the near non-existant warranty risk resulting from a professionally upgrade motor.  

[DCFIREMANN]

If it was my bike (and it was) I said to hell with the warranty after the first 500 miles. I did a fluid change when the bike got home(about 65 miles) drove the hell out of it. Took it the dealer for the 500 mile check up. That was it. The mods I did in the frist 2 years were minimal to say the least. Air cleaner, exhaust and fuel injection mangement and then a throttle body. It was very simple the bike ran great no warranty issues the dyno numbers were very good for a stocker. That was it. It was reliable enough to take to the left coast if I had wanted to.

BUt after the warranty ran out it was LOOK OUT!!!!!!! [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]

Be Safe

THE DAWG

  

[Hoist!]

Thanks guys. Like I said earlier, I'm not looking to hop-up this bike, just get it running right. Pipes, K&N, SERT will basically do that and still maintain my Warranty. So why not maintain the Warranty? I was just asking what to use if the stock injectors are not enough for proper fuel delivery, with just these 3 things done. Hoist!

[BLM777]

Thanks guys. Like I said earlier, I'm not looking to hop-up this bike, just get it running right. Pipes, K&N, SERT will basically do that and still maintain my Warranty. So why not maintain the Warranty? I was just asking what to use if the stock injectors are not enough for proper fuel delivery, with just these 3 things done. Hoist!

Injectors won't make any difference in a air filter, pipes and tune setup.

[Hoist!]

[highlight]Injectors won't make any difference in a air filter, pipes and tune setup.[/highlight]

Thak you. Hoist!

[Fired00d]

Thanks guys. Like I said earlier, I'm not looking to hop-up this bike, just get it running right. Pipes, K&N, SERT will basically do that and still maintain my Warranty. So why not maintain the Warranty? I was just asking what to use if the stock injectors are not enough for proper fuel delivery, with just these 3 things done. Hoist!

Hoist,
What you speak of is the same thing I wanted. I only changed the pipes/AF/Fuel Management (SERT) initially, and then after reading and finding out there was the potential for disaster (cam chain tensioners) I opted to go with gear drive cams. In the time it took me to decide what cams I wanted to go with luckily some cams were produced specifically for the 103ci motors (Zippers/Freedoms). Like you I didn't/don't want a radical race motor I want something I can ride (cross country) that will be dependable, efficient, and reliable.

I'm not trying to sway you into going to/for a "balls to the wall" type motor, just trying to show you that the decision may have to be made to put the warranty on the back burner to obtain those three things I mentioned above (dependable, efficient, and reliable). Good luck with what ever you decide.

P.S. I forgot to add "relationships" w/who is doing the mod installs.

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

[Hoist!]

Hoist,
What you speak of is the same thing I wanted. I only changed the pipes/AF/Fuel Management (SERT) initially, and then after reading and finding out there was the potential for disaster (cam chain tensioners) I opted to go with gear drive cams. In the time it took me to decide what cams I wanted to go with luckily some cams were produced specifically for the 103ci motors (Zippers/Freedoms). Like you I didn't/don't want a radical race motor I want something I can ride (cross country) that will be dependable, efficient, and reliable.

I'm not trying to sway you into going to/for a "balls to the wall" type motor, just trying to show you that the decision may have to be made to put the warranty on the back burner to obtain those three things I mentioned above (dependable, efficient, and reliable). Good luck with what ever you decide.

P.S. I forgot to add "relationships" w/who is doing the mod installs.

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

dOOd, I fully agree. I think now I can accomplish the pipe and SERT change and still maintain the Warranty because I do have a good relationship with my dealer. I just hope I don't need that spare ECM on the road though. I'll ride it that way for awhile and see what happens. Thanks. Hoist!

[DCFIREMANN]

HOIST IMHO I would not run a SERT on a 2007 model. I would run the thunder max with the closed loop system. By the time you are ready all of the bugs for the new bikes will be gone. If you do a SERT and you have problems on the road you may be in deep water if you get a bad dealer.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Hoist!]

[highlight]HOIST IMHO I would not run a SERT on a 2007 model. I would run the thunder max with the closed loop system.[/highlight] By the time you are ready all of the bugs for the new bikes will be gone. If you do a SERT and you have problems on the road you may be in deep water if you get a bad dealer.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Thanks Mike! Just when I thought I had it figured out and would be safer with the SERT on the road. That's why I was asking about a spare stock ECM. Or hope for a reasonable dealer. Or throw the bike in a van and take it home to my dealer. How easy is it to change the TMax and sensors and wiring on the road? What do you need to take along with you to make it stock again? No dealer can say a thing about the pipes except fo emissions. For all intents and purposes, the bike is stock. So which way is more practical. That's why I figured the SERT is easier for now. Unless you can convince that's it's easier to deal with the TMax. [smiley=drink.gif]
Hoist!

[Twolanerider]

Hoist, just want to make sure I'm understanding all of your intents correctly.  Are you concerned about a "spare" ECM for issues of reliability and carrying a spare?  Or is it to swap a piece out that won't potentially cause you warranty hassles with some prospective dealer who is choosing to be a big Richard?

If the latter then obviously your easiest swap is just one stock ECM for another.  But unless you've had a race tuner's map loaded in both the "spare" ECM will likely have significantly lean should you ever plug it in and have to go very far.  

The T-Max is also a simple enough ECM swap but the sensors and auto tune module give you more to change should the need ever arise.  Having just done that to my bike I can tell you that none of it is at all a difficult thing to do.  But it would be an annoyance on the side of the road someplace.

Honestly, and without any kidding of any kind, I'd not screw with a "spare" for its own sake.  These units are very (very very) reliable.  So a spare for reliability's sake is likely a redundancy overkill.  And as a mechanism to keep a dealer off your back; well, if the prospective dealer is that much of a dick that a SERT map is going to push him over the edge than he's enough of a dick he's likely going to hassle you about pipes or whatever else he can find too.  Not because he should.  But just because he can and he chooses to.  So the whole question is probably one that's not worth losing sleep over and that could be replaced with much more fun things to worry about and spend money on.

[Hoist!]

Hoist, just want to make sure I'm understanding all of your intents correctly.