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Author Topic: Harley 117 Kit  (Read 467250 times)

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WildmanUltra

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Re: Harley 117 Kit
« Reply #1560 on: July 14, 2019, 04:02:33 PM »

Have you already installed the 117 kit with the SE 259. What year is your CVO?

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No the kit isn't installed yet as it is currently on back order thru HD. But the dealership where I bought the bike isn't being very flexible about any different changes. I asked about even just installing a .030 head gasket and the reply I got was that the kit already had high compression. Now this is the parts manager and I haven't spoken with the service manager yet.

I have a 2015 RGU CVO.

I think the question in that long post is “what’s the best tuner”?

The best tuner is the one that the dyno guy is most familiar with. 
IMO, the most capable tuners are the TTS and PowerVision in that order.

When the time comes I will use which ever tuner the shop I go to uses. That makes sense but this is only the 2nd bike I have own that I was using a tuner on. My old RGU which was a 2011 I had a Power Vision on it.

Another option is to send your heads to HDSP   if you want to stick with a harley cam..either the SE 259 at 10.7-10.8 or the SE 585 at 10.3-10.5..Valve job, deck the heads, cometic, and if you want to keep your warranty use your current tuner or pc 5 and remove it, but if you dont care about your warranty get the TTS  or the Power Vision..119-120/125-130 are typical results depending on cam, compression,  and who dyno tunes it..

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Yes I talked to HDSP about this already and he was the one who said he could machine my jugs to raise the compression. My concern is voiding the warranty and while I have read more than one post that I can just remove my aftermarket tuner and reflash to the stock tune and then HD can't tell you have been running a aftermarket tuner I wish there was a way to verify this.

I agree with hawgzilla..I use a power commander 5 and I was told by my tuner if anything ever happens to my bike while I am away from my local dealer that i should disconnect it , prior to taking it in to the dealership..2015 CVO 110 with SE 585 cams and 58 mm tb, Full Sac Dx pipe..110/114 still under ESP (in fact getting new rotors due to warping for 50.00, but I got to pay the full price for break pads)..If and when something happens then i will have the dealer install the 117 kit ( which i will have to get since i live in Cali) and install the TTS 150 cam or Tman 625 cam)..

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If you disconnect the Power Commander can't they still tell that you have been using a tuner? This is what has me concerned. I've read that you can use a aftermarket tuner and then when the time comes pull it and then just connect the SESPT as all they can see is that the ECM has had a tuner connected.
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Para Bellum

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Re: Harley 117 Kit
« Reply #1561 on: July 15, 2019, 02:02:33 AM »

If you disconnect the Power Commander can't they still tell that you have been using a tuner? This is what has me concerned. I've read that you can use a aftermarket tuner and then when the time comes pull it and then just connect the SESPT as all they can see is that the ECM has had a tuner connected.
The PC5 is a "piggyback" tuner, meaning it does not change the original fuel map. The piggyback tuners just intercept the fuel signal from the stock map, then adjusts it up or down to provide more or less fuel to the engine.  Piggyback tuners are hooked up to the bike and physically stay on the bike to work.

The "flash" tuners, such as TTS, PowerVision FP3, etc., actually change the stock fuel map in the ECM.  The word "flash" thus means "electronically changing /replacing" the original fuel map.  After the new map is flashed into the ECM, the flash tuner is completely disconnected from the bike.

If you ever have to get warranty work on the bike, you remove the piggyback box from the bike before taking the bike in (to remove all evidence of a different tune).  OTOH, with flash tuners, you have to hook-up the computer AND the tuner box to the bike, flash the original map back into the bike's ECM, then disconnect the 'puter and the box. 

Here's where the posible 'rub' (no, not the rich urban biker, lol) comes in:  b/c of H-D's lawsuit settlement with the EPA, HD gets to void the warranty if a non-EPA approved tune has ever been used in the bike.  So HD put in an electronic "snitch' that tells them, when they hook-up their Digital Technician, that a different map has been flashed into the ECM...and if HD doesn't have a note in their records that they installed an EPA-approved map...you are so $crewed.

Certain flash tuner companies claim their box eludes the snitch, and HD can't tell that your ECM ever had a different map.  I have no experience with this, and as you can imagine, nobody want to be the tester for this.  We make our choice, and take our chance.  My choice was to keep the warranty by using the SEST to put in an EPA approved map.  I'm sure it cost some performance, but with the sumping and fluid-transfer problems on the M8, that was my decision.  Good luck with yours.
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Re: Harley 117 Kit
« Reply #1562 on: July 15, 2019, 08:19:53 AM »


I can't help but notice how many people plan to pay Harley for a Stage III or IV kit but then want to substitute different cams or other parts.  IMHO there is only one reason to buy one of Harley's kits rather than have the engine built by a top notch independent builder/tuner, and that is the desire to maintain the powertrain warranty coverage.  Once you start substituting parts or tunes, that Harley kit is no longer legal and the warranty is very much at risk.  If you have money to burn, just set aside about $5k for possible future engine failures and then get the engine built and tuned by one of those independents.  You'll get a much better result than you would with a bastardized Harley kit and Harley canned street legal tune.  After all, what's another 5 grand after blowing $45k to $50k on the bike and extras?  People who follow any of the Harley forums at all know up front the risks involved with buying the bike, so they already have a pile of money invested in a risky transaction.  Why not risk a bit more to make it run the way you want it to run?  Or spend about half as much on that BMW and learn how a motorcycle should run straight from the factory without all the BS.

Jerry ;)

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Re: Harley 117 Kit
« Reply #1563 on: July 15, 2019, 08:22:14 AM »

Wildmanultra,

If they are going to warranty the SE 117 kit be sure they put that in writing..When my motor needed rebuilding in my 103, I had Harley send my heads out to HDSP, and install SE 585 cams to replace my TC 24D cams which were installed 104/114 with a D&D Fatcat....My ESP still remained intact due to my relationshipwith my local dealer...Since I live in Cali, I would have had to buy the Stage V Scorcher kit on my own and have it shipped to Cali (since the dealer wouldn't order it)..If something happens to your bike make sure you take it to the dealer that is installing the kit..Now my 3rd gear is slipping and i have went down due to my front breaks locking up so we we will see if ESP covers my tranni or break issue..My 2015 CVO is getting new rotors due to warping, however, i have heard of others who installed other brands of break pad and their warranty was voided..Be careful

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Re: Harley 117 Kit
« Reply #1564 on: July 17, 2019, 09:56:24 AM »

Mike Steggman at Latus Motors in Gladstone (Portland Or area) is a very good tuner if you can get him. Won't use Baisley again after his $1700. on my heads blew seals twice. I know lots of people love him and his work and I will say Dan is a very nice guy to talk to. To be fair the work done was back in 07 before everyone in the business figured out better ways to do heads on the 110. I can only assume he has also.
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WildmanUltra

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Re: Harley 117 Kit
« Reply #1565 on: July 18, 2019, 09:15:36 PM »

Well I just got an update on the 117" kits. They are still on backorder now until 29 July which I hope will be when they finally will fill the order instead of doing like they just did. The first date we got was 5 July so it is frustrating that they didn't fill it then.
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SHRADER

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Re: Harley 117 Kit
« Reply #1566 on: July 19, 2019, 11:47:51 AM »

Did your dealership try to locate a kit in stock at another dealership? It is highly likely that one is sitting somewhere on the shelf...
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WildmanUltra

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Re: Harley 117 Kit
« Reply #1567 on: July 19, 2019, 12:14:13 PM »

Did your dealership try to locate a kit in stock at another dealership? It is highly likely that one is sitting somewhere on the shelf...

Yes they had found 2 out on the east coast but both were spoken for so no dice.
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WildmanUltra

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Re: Harley 117 Kit
« Reply #1568 on: August 02, 2019, 09:00:44 PM »

Well the new release date was 29 July and that came and went. The NEW release date is 5 Aug but I have a feeling that I won't get this kit until maybe next year sometime. I understand supply & demand and my theory on what is happening is that HD is waiting for enough orders to come in for the kit and then HD will make a run of them to fill those requests. So without knowing how many orders for the kit there are who knows when it'll be ready.
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stratplexi

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Re: Harley 117 Kit
« Reply #1569 on: August 15, 2019, 04:30:05 PM »

Gents, wanted to follow up on this forum regarding my 117 build. Sorry for taking so long but forgot and someone PM’d me about my build. This forum was a big help on figuring out my build. Bike is 2014 CVO Road King. I went with 117 kit and swapped out 259 cams for Screamin Eagle 585 cams. All other items in the kit were used. I had a Screaming Eagle Race Tuner already and dealer just retuned for the build. Pipes are stock headpipe with cat removed and rewelded, stock cans recored with fullsac 2.25” cores. Build is right around 9.9: 1 compression (going by memory) and is very streetable with mild manners and gas mileage hasn't really suffered. I have done a couple of 2-up trips fully loaded with luggage and she has plenty of power to spare.

As you can see from my torque curve...nice and broad with no soft spots. Totally happy with it.

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Re: Harley 117 Kit
« Reply #1570 on: August 15, 2019, 08:06:19 PM »

There are signs of clutch or wheel slippage on the run you may want to look at an aim SLR so you don’t wear out the clutches over and over andit will help lock up the clutch
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Re: Harley 117 Kit
« Reply #1571 on: August 15, 2019, 08:38:01 PM »

Would you expect clutch slippage on a factory upgrade? I haven't seen this mentioned previously on this kit topic.
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Unbalanced

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Re: Harley 117 Kit
« Reply #1572 on: August 15, 2019, 09:10:57 PM »

When you see those dips in the dynosheet it’s one or the other.  Your Dyno operator can take that run and show you the clutch graph might be more decisive on what’s going on

You put a bigger cube top end and increased torque i would expect to put additional grip on the clutch
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Yellow09SERG

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Re: Harley 117 Kit
« Reply #1573 on: August 15, 2019, 10:43:28 PM »

Would you expect clutch slippage on a factory upgrade? I haven't seen this mentioned previously on this kit topic.

Not sure if you will see it mentioned much in this thread. But yes clutch can be an issue with the 117. I had to go to the Alto clutch, AIM pressure plate, with the CVO spring before we got rid of the slippage when the bike was loaded down 2up with a trailer.
 
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HD Street Performance

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Re: Harley 117 Kit
« Reply #1574 on: August 16, 2019, 10:11:01 AM »

We have used several Rekluse clutches and they work well. The added bonus of liners supplied to stiffen up the basket drive dogs.
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