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Author Topic: Top End Build Questions  (Read 1141 times)

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WildmanUltra

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Top End Build Questions
« on: September 17, 2019, 12:01:23 AM »

Howdy all again,

I have a 2015 CVO RGU that I just did a 117" kit on. Of course things didn't go quite like I had hoped so I am now going to be doing some extra work to it.
This kit comes with a SE259e cam as part of the kit. Why HD offers this kit with this cam is beyond most since the kit has a CR of 9.9:1 and this cam likes a CR of 10.5:1 or higher.

So to fix this during the winter I am going to pull the heads and jugs off and am taking them over to HD Performance in Edgewood, WA to have the heads P&P and the jugs trimmed to bump my CR up to around 10.8:1.
So my questions are while I have the top end torn down is there anything else I want to do to it? Things like Roller Rockers? Or Forged Rocker Supports? I'm also getting new valve springs installed to get rid of the stiff stock CVO springs. I'll most likely also replace the SE lifters with someone else's while I have things apart.

So let's hear it? What else would you do?
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RoadTrip

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Re: Top End Build Questions
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2019, 09:32:21 AM »

I’ve been following your 117 upgrade threads here and on the RG forum. I think you are to a point now where you should find a trusted, high performance master tech and follow his/her guidance explicitly. They will be able to get you the performance you desire based on where you are today.
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bakon

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Re: Top End Build Questions
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2019, 10:32:53 AM »

Just swap cam. Or do you want to run that compression? I had heads shaved and smaller cometic head gasket. Figure 10:1but cross country tour this bike. S&S 585 At recommendations of my head builder who flowed them but recommended keeping stock springs. I would.have picked an earlier close but he said it would work and a 117 will run the cam different than the old 95 motors. He was right    good performance everywhere. 
Lifters- Feuling.
I have slightly more lift and better cam timing than the cam in kit plus I didn't kill the compression to much over the kit.
Numbers are lower than some but better than all the kits. 120 hp and 130 ft lbs. But I am not beating any parts for ever last number.  No rollers or forged extras.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2019, 01:13:53 PM by bakon »
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WildmanUltra

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Re: Top End Build Questions
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2019, 01:29:27 PM »

I'm not chasing any numbers either as far as trying to have bragging rights at the bar or online in any dyno threads. I just know that based on what others got when they did the 117" kit my numbers are lower than most. Some of it seems to be poor selection of exhaust parts and I'll take the hit on that one. I should have researched more before I ordered parts but I had been out of the HD world for a while so I trusted that the parts guy would know what he was doing.

After talking to a few shops and tuners a lot of what is wrong seems to point at the SE tuner not being able to compensate for the aftermarket head pipes and slip-ons. All this was said when I first started asking about the build but I was trying to retain my ESP so I was willing to give the SE stuff a shot. The numbers don't lie and the only way I am going to get more out of my bike is by going with a different tuner. Since the shops I have spoken with locally all prefer the Power Vision I am going to go with that.

Don at HD Performance has a plan for what we'll do with the parts already installed on my bike and he has explained to me the reasons why I can bump my compression and not have any issues with lower octane fuel. I'm just trying to find out if there is anything else I should change while I have the top torn down. I had planned on doing this in the first place but wasn't going to do it until next winter. The only thing that has changed was that I'm going to do it this winter instead.
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JKM

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Re: Top End Build Questions
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2019, 04:07:40 PM »

Is Don doing your heads?  If so, then he will likely change your stock springs as most say they are too heavy.  Also talk to him about rocker-lockers to get rid of some of the upper end noise.
Make sure to check your crank run-out while you have the motor open so see if any bottom end work is needed.
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FLSTFI Dave

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Re: Top End Build Questions
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2019, 08:34:03 PM »

Howdy all again,

I have a 2015 CVO RGU that I just did a 117" kit on. Of course things didn't go quite like I had hoped so I am now going to be doing some extra work to it.
This kit comes with a SE259e cam as part of the kit. Why HD offers this kit with this cam is beyond most since the kit has a CR of 9.9:1 and this cam likes a CR of 10.5:1 or higher.

So to fix this during the winter I am going to pull the heads and jugs off and am taking them over to HD Performance in Edgewood, WA to have the heads P&P and the jugs trimmed to bump my CR up to around 10.8:1.
So my questions are while I have the top end torn down is there anything else I want to do to it? Things like Roller Rockers? Or Forged Rocker Supports? I'm also getting new valve springs installed to get rid of the stiff stock CVO springs. I'll most likely also replace the SE lifters with someone else's while I have things apart.

So let's hear it? What else would you do?
I would do to the heads what Don at HD Street performance recommends.  With the right compression the 259E is a good cam.

First time I built my 13 CVO King January of 13 Don did my head work, and we set the compression for 10.8:1.  Ran the 259 E cam with a HPI 55mm throttle body and 5.3 GPM injectors.   Woods alpha lifters.   Fullsac head pipe and fullsac 2.25 mufflers in the stock CVO cans.  I was 123 HP and 124 torque.  Very nice torque curve with no dip or flat spot, easier to ride then stock.  Used a TTS tuner

Fast forward two years when HD came out with the 117 Kit, I bought the Cylinders only.  Worked with Don on Cam choice an compression for this, knowing I was going to run the same HPI throttle body, and same exhaust.  Don said they way he did the heads the first time they would be fine.  So I am at 11.4 compression with a Woods TW-9B-6 cam.  I am at 138.5 HP and 140 Torque, very smooth and easy to ride, no flat spots. Easiest and smoothest bike I have ever rode, still have it an have had 4 CVO since.

When I build my 2019 M8 CVO, Don will be doing the head work, and I will be talking with him about choosing the right parts.  Key is everything needs to be matched to work together for best results. 

« Last Edit: September 17, 2019, 08:40:19 PM by FLSTFI Dave »
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WildmanUltra

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Re: Top End Build Questions
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2019, 09:37:13 PM »

Thanks for all the replies.
Yes Don and I have been talking already and he wants to talk to me when I bring the parts over and then we will chose the correct cam for me and my type of riding.
Yes the valve springs are going to be replaced and he'll do his magic on the heads and trim the jugs to get to the CR that is decided on then. Because I am new to the whole HD build world I just figured I would ask others if there were thing I should be adding or changing while I had this torn down. I'm more use to building V-8's and I-6 engines for Jeeps and suck. I'm not new to wrenching just new to wrenching on a HD. I use to be a heavy line mechanic and can setup ring and pinion gears and have rebuilt a few transmissions. When I can I try to do most of the work myself but I also know what my limitations are. Things like machining heads are beyond my scope and I'm glad I have someone like Don to go to.

Money of course is a limiting factor so I can't just throw $10K at my engine. But I'd like to address all the things I can now and not have to tare into the engine again for a while.
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HD Street Performance

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Re: Top End Build Questions
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2019, 08:42:15 AM »

Dave, lots of good things happening on the m8 front. Those heads move more air then the hurricanes with a little work. Cycle -Rama has some very effective cams as well. More to come
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WildmanUltra

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Re: Top End Build Questions
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2019, 02:18:42 PM »

Thanks for all the help Don. Will be seeing you most likely in December some time.

Rick
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FLSTFI Dave

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Re: Top End Build Questions
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2019, 08:50:42 PM »

Dave, lots of good things happening on the m8 front. Those heads move more air then the hurricanes with a little work. Cycle -Rama has some very effective cams as well. More to come

I am pretty sure I will be talking to you in the very early spring about building my M8.  I know you have been working with Joe. 
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2023 FLTRXSE Whiskey Neat
2021 RA1250S Pan America Special
2019 FLTRXSE Red Pepper / Magnetic Gray Traded
2018 FLTRXSE Gunship Gray  Traded
2017 FLHXSE  Starfire Black / Atomic Red  Traded
2015 FLTRUSE Abyss Blue / Crushed Saphire Traded
2013 FLHRSE5 Diamond Dust 117  Traded
2012 FLTRXSE White Gold Pearl / Starfire Black  Traded
2009 FLTRSE3 Silver/Titanium  Traded
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