Topic: RPM Limit? (Read 7767 times)

Unbalanced · « **Reply #15 on:** November 20, 2005, 06:47:16 PM »

Reo,

Looking at your best 2 runs I would suggest that around 4400 to 4500 you start your shift so that at 4700-4900 you shift for optimal performance (racing)... Although I would not set my rev limiter to 5500 I would set it to 6k for the oops, ohh damn, I wasnt paying attention instances. First and 2nd gear are just to easy to meet the rev limiter at 5000 or 5500.

If you're looking to make changes to the bike you may be interested in the zippers thread here or possibly one of the already proven hop ups from SBC or Freedom Cycle.

-harry

grc · « **Reply #16 on:** November 21, 2005, 07:42:12 AM »

Quote

Horsepower and torque intersect at 5252 rpms no matter what, correct?

horsepower = rpm x torque / 5252

Big Time,

Absolutely correct. The torque and horsepower curves will always intersect at 5252 rpm, as long as you use the same scale for both.

Jerry

grc · « **Reply #17 on:** November 21, 2005, 11:04:37 AM »

JMHO - the rev limiter isn't designed to be a shift indicator, but is only there as a fail-safe to prevent major damage. Constantly running up to the limiter will definitely shorten engine life, with the first thing to weaken being the valve springs, followed by the pistons and rings. The bottom end will probably take the abuse fairly well (at least the pre 2003 engines with the better bearings). In the lower gears it may feel like you are still increasing power, but that is an illusion created by the torque multiplying affect of the trans ratio. If anyone is really interested in drag racing one of these beasts, I would suggest a close ratio gear set instead of over-revving in the lower gears so as to be in the sweet spot in the next gear.

Jerry

sefatboyscott · « **Reply #18 on:** November 21, 2005, 11:09:53 AM »

Actually my set up hits peak HP just before it drops off the chart at around 5,800 rpm. But I agree its not good to keep hitting the rev limiter

John S · « **Reply #19 on:** November 21, 2005, 08:49:59 PM »

I have an 03 FLSTS with a ridged mounted "B" motor. I put in an S&S 116" kit and have spent a lot of time on the dyno. Last dyno without baffles using Cycle Shack pipes was 141HP and 131 torque. I have since added more compression (12.8:1), solid lifters, and different rockers. I am hoping to be between 150-155HP on the next set of pulls.

My point in mentioning all this is the 6200 is recommended by the factory because they are worried about the chain spinning the counterweights on the case. Not only are the flywheels spinning like crazy at that RPM, but the counterweights are as well. Most importantly, in 2002 (I think) Harley (in its infinite wisdom) decided to go away from a Timkin type bearing on the primary side and went with straight roller bearings. The result is less strength against side thrust. The Engineers at Harley figured it saved a few dollars and maybe was easier to assemble. However, going away from technology that has worked reliably for 50 years was a mistake in my humble opinion.

Going with the motor that I have built (and I recommend this to anyone who plans on doing serious high performance work and wants to take the Twin Cam B motor to above 6200 RPMs) I had a Timkin type bearing installed in the case and changed the oiling back like the earlier models. It takes someone who really knows what they are doing to do this and a few dollors but the peace of mind is well worth it.

The bottom line is, 6200 should be no problem at all. I run mine to 6500 and have pushed 7000 a few times on the dyno but I have the Timkin bearing in it. It does keep on pulling right to the top. These motors like longer stroke (like the EVOs) and compression is a must. Free flowing exhaust and intake will lower the operating temp while adding performance. Add an oil cooler and good oil (I am partial to synthetics) because they run hot due to the piston oilers (these add additional heat to the oil but cool the piston dome 50 degrees).

Last but not least, listen to one person on how to make your bike run. Everybody has their opinion of what works bit it may not work for your combination. It's the right package that works. For the street, I would gladly sacrifice 2-5 HP for more torque. Remember....Torque gets you there and horsepower keeps you there.

Best of luck!!!

John S. 8-)

Unbalanced · « **Reply #20 on:** November 21, 2005, 09:20:09 PM »

JohnS,

[smiley=worthless.gif]
Great input and welcome to the site. You have just been indoctrinated by the famous Wheres the pictures in this case Dyno Sheet.

Sounds like a balls to the wall type of motor. Did you modify your gearing at all, I expect you went with a chain vs. a belt drive? What is final drive for this beast? Which cycle shacks did you put on the bike?

You say stick with one person who do you recommend to do your combinations and if they are not the same person who did the headwork?

-Unbalanced

sefatboyscott · « **Reply #21 on:** November 21, 2005, 10:56:50 PM »

Wait til hubbard sees this........is he no longer king of the hill??

HUBBARD · « **Reply #22 on:** November 23, 2005, 05:33:16 PM »

Quote

Wait til hubbard sees this........is he no longer king of the hill??

Yeah, 'er uh, sefatboyscott,
I don't know about that "King of the Hill" chit, but I do know no Harley has been able to pass my "Led Sled!" Add to that, dyno sheets don't mean chit to me. Put it on the pavement and twist it! That's the [highlight]real[/highlight] test. This fellow may be the one to bust Ol' Maudies a$$, but then again, he may not. Don't quite understand those inverted HP/TQ numbers, but what do I know? Later--HUBBARD

HUBBARD · « **Reply #23 on:** November 23, 2005, 05:44:22 PM »

Yeah, 'er 'uh, John S,
Welcome to the site! Sounds like you've got a Mean Machine! Later--HUBBARD

John S · « **Reply #24 on:** November 27, 2005, 10:36:42 AM »

Yeh, I did change the gearing when I added the Baker six speed. No need to have all the top end speed with a 14% overdrive when I can grab more down low to get the heavy Harley moving. With the combo I have on the bike I am about a 7% overdrive in 6th and under 1:1 in 5th. I can ride around in 6th as low as 40mph with this setup and the torque I have.

I have debated whether to go to a chain but I haven't yet. It all depends on how you "pop" the clutch and how often. My problem now is keeping the rear tire hooked up. It would be easy if AVON made a wide whitewall but they don't so I am going to a Metzler that is a little wider than the stock one. It will just squeeze in there. I am changing it this winter after I get in ingraved like the front tire. I have to be VERY careful twisting the throttle out of a corner. If the bike is not straight the back tire wants to pass the front one!

The guy I use is Riverside Cycle & Machine (RCM) in Bristol, CT (860.584.8870). He is the man when it comes to getting numbers on a Harley V-Twin. Like everything else, it is all about time and money!!!

Finally, as far as "twisting it on the pavement" goes? I am not a bench racer who only shows dyno sheets. I am also not out looking for a race. But, I DO put it on the pavement and it DOES run. I would be happy to line it up FOR FUN!!!

HUBBARD · « **Reply #25 on:** November 27, 2005, 02:50:59 PM »

Quote

Yeh, I did change the gearing when I added the Baker six speed. No need to have all the top end speed with a 14% overdrive when I can grab more down low to get the heavy Harley moving. With the combo I have on the bike I am about a 7% overdrive in 6th and under 1:1 in 5th. I can ride around in 6th as low as 40mph with this setup and the torque I have.

I have debated whether to go to a chain but I haven't yet. It all depends on how you "pop" the clutch and how often. My problem now is keeping the rear tire hooked up. It would be easy if AVON made a wide whitewall but they don't so I am going to a Metzler that is a little wider than the stock one. It will just squeeze in there. I am changing it this winter after I get in ingraved like the front tire. I have to be VERY careful twisting the throttle out of a corner. If the bike is not straight the back tire wants to pass the front one!

The guy I use is Riverside Cycle & Machine (RCM) in Bristol, CT (860.584.8870). He is the man when it comes to getting numbers on a Harley V-Twin. Like everything else, it is all about time and money!!!

Finally, as far as "twisting it on the pavement" goes? [highlight]I am not a bench racer who only shows dyno sheets.[/highlight] I am also not out looking for a race. But, I DO put it on the pavement and it DOES run. I would be happy to line it up FOR FUN!!!

Yeah, 'er 'uh, John S,
It would appear you ARE a bench racer, that does NOT show dyno sheets. I just don't believe you can get 141 HP out of a 116" "B" Motor, much less 155 HP! BTW, explain "different rockers." Add to that, with 12.8:1 compression, I bet it's a bummer having to constantly short trip, or is your Engine Builder so good, that your Motor can run pump gas? I would be happy to accept your challange, and line them up. Where and when, would you like this August event to take place? I assure you, it won't be FOR FUN on my part, until I shift into 6th, and see a little white dot in my mirror! [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif] [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif] [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif] Later--HUBBARD

John S · « **Reply #26 on:** November 27, 2005, 05:25:09 PM »

Now Mr. Hubbard. You surprise me. Since I am new to this website why don't you tell me how to post an image and I would be glad to show you my last dyno. Keep in mind I the sheet I WILL post is with "rubber" lifters, 10.6:1 compression, and an S&S Super G carb. All those have been fixed and I am CERTAIN the next one will be at or near 150HP. So, before you say something else that you might regret saying, look at my sheet.

Now, how do I post it? You can email me directly at salcej@comcast.net if you like. I will also be happy to send you a picture of the bike too. You will see that it is NOT on a bench!

[smiley=banana.gif]

Twolanerider · « **Reply #27 on:** November 27, 2005, 05:28:12 PM »

Quote

Now Mr. Hubbard. You surprise me. Since I am new to this website why don't you tell me how to post an image and I would be glad to show you my last dyno. Keep in mind I the sheet I WILL post is with "rubber" lifters, 10.6:1 compression, and an S&S Super G carb. All those have been fixed and I am CERTAIN the next one will be at or near 150HP. So, before you say something else that you might regret saying, look at my sheet.

Now, how do I post it? You can email me directly at salcej@comcast.net if you like. I will also be happy to send you a picture of the bike too. You will see that it is NOT on a bench!

[smiley=banana.gif]

Take a look at the FAQ for adding an attachment here:

http://flhrsei.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1118675329

Unbalanced · « **Reply #28 on:** November 27, 2005, 06:40:30 PM »

JohnS.

You need to scan your dyno map into JPG format. Then save it to your harddrive.
After saving it below the box where you type your messages it says attach ... find the path to your dyno.jpg by browsing for it with the browse button. Ones you find the map and highlight it hit open then hit post and there it will be. If you can not convert it to jpg and want help you can email it to me at unbalanced@bellsouth.net.

-harry

John S · « **Reply #29 on:** November 27, 2005, 10:16:05 PM »

I sent all the "proof" directly to Unbalanced. People have to learn to trust people!!

The numbers are real...and attainable on a "B" motor.

Author Topic: RPM Limit? (Read 7767 times)

Unbalanced

Re: RPM Limit?

grc

Re: RPM Limit?

grc

Re: RPM Limit?

sefatboyscott

Re: RPM Limit?

John S

Re: RPM Limit?

Unbalanced

Re: RPM Limit?

sefatboyscott

Re: RPM Limit?

HUBBARD

Re: RPM Limit?

HUBBARD

Re: RPM Limit?

John S

Re: RPM Limit?

HUBBARD

Re: RPM Limit?

John S

Re: RPM Limit?

Twolanerider

Re: RPM Limit?

Unbalanced

Re: RPM Limit?

John S

Re: RPM Limit?