Topic: 120 HP ? (Read 7117 times)

jimp · « **on:** January 06, 2006, 07:38:02 PM »

Want are the required modification to pull one hundred and twenty hp out of a 103 SE motor?

OTIS · « **Reply #1 on:** January 06, 2006, 08:21:43 PM »

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Want are the required modification to pull one hundred and twenty hp out of a 103 SE motor?

Probably seven thousand dollars

OTIS [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

jimp · « **Reply #2 on:** January 06, 2006, 08:31:38 PM »

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Probably seven thousand dollars

OTIS · « **Reply #3 on:** January 06, 2006, 10:13:58 PM »

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So Otis your saying 7K to gain 20hp considering that you already have 100 hp with a good tune on a stocker with aftermarket exhaust and a SERT.

Not kidding 20 more hp is hard to get when you have 100 already you need to tear the motor down and start over because you are at a point I call diminishing returns spend a lot to get a little.Shrader a member of this site spent 1400$ on heads 270$ pistons 120$push rods cams270$ Big sucker air cleaner200$
Misc.studs gaskets 150$ Rineharts 900$ labor700$ if lucky and a clutch that will take it that got Shrader a true 113 HPyou may not get 120 with 7K and 103.
I forgot 800$ HP INC FUEL INJ.
OTIS

SHRADER · « **Reply #4 on:** January 06, 2006, 10:22:36 PM »

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Not kidding

Grover · « **Reply #5 on:** January 06, 2006, 10:30:05 PM »

jimp,
Are you talking rear wheel hp or Engine hp(at the crank)?
My previous 103 build had 117hp/114tq with all SE parts. But since then it blew the crank bearing. That was with the SE 258 cams. I would have been at least 120 with a geardrive set-up.
If you are going for bigger hp gains, make sure to upgrade the flywheel bearings.

SHRADER · « **Reply #6 on:** January 06, 2006, 10:33:40 PM »

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jimp,

Grover · « **Reply #7 on:** January 06, 2006, 10:38:55 PM »

jimp,

Also every dyno and tuner will show different #'s on the same engine at different times. Run thinner oil, cooler intake air, and higher rear tire preassure. That will shoot up your dyno sheet for more impressive bragging rights.

SHRADER · « **Reply #8 on:** January 06, 2006, 10:42:06 PM »

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jimp,

fatboyse2 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 06, 2006, 11:16:09 PM »

I've managed to put a few freezing cold miles [smiley=nervous.gif] on my bike since the SE everything build was finished before the holidays and am looking to do a full dyno tune after I get a couple hundred miles on it. No extra tire preasure or thinner oil. Racetuner CD was version E (latest out) and had a close build to mine (except for the heads/pistons which were 103+ in the download Vs the CNC heads and htcc pistons I chose) and I'm using a thunderheader Vs the SE 2 into 1 the download had. It runs great with this library download, but I suspect I can fine tune a bit more out of it since I've got the ported heads and best exhaust... I'm expecting 110hp [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] The SE parts catalog page 27 lower right hand corner shows the graph at about 104hp with the 103+ heads/pistons.

120hp may be an un-ride-able dream.

OTIS · « **Reply #10 on:** January 06, 2006, 11:25:39 PM »

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I've managed to put a few freezing cold miles [smiley=nervous.gif] on my bike since the SE everything build was finished before the holidays and am looking to do a full dyno tune after I get a couple hundred miles on it.

Grover · « **Reply #11 on:** January 06, 2006, 11:33:04 PM »

OTIS,

My 103 mods where the same as Schraders except I put on the D&D Borezilla 2:1. My dealer gave me cost on all SE products. They also ate the labor, because the motor blew the crank bearing. So it was under warranty.

fatboyse2 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 06, 2006, 11:34:03 PM »

If I back out all the shiny chromey bits and just talk engine about 4.5 installed. My dealer gave a 20% parts discount which was great. Yep, I'm broke now.

jimp · « **Reply #13 on:** January 07, 2006, 08:05:49 AM »

So how about the stock heads, the 120 can't be accomplished using them?

BLM777 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 07, 2006, 08:21:51 AM »

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So how about the stock heads, the 120 can't be accomplished using them?

If you just drop off the bike and a couple of hundred bucks next time I've got the dyno available to me, I'll get you a sheet with 120 plus....no need for any mods...
[smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]

OTIS · « **Reply #15 on:** January 07, 2006, 08:27:09 AM »

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If you just drop off the bike and a couple of hundred bucks next time I've got the dyno available to me, I'll get you a sheet with 120 plus....no need for any mods...
[smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]

BLM you are exactly right.

OTIS [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

DCFIREMANN · « **Reply #16 on:** January 07, 2006, 08:57:00 AM »

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So how about the stock heads, the 120 can't be accomplished using them?

I think it can but they need to be modified. At a cost of

Be Safe

THE DAWG

mr_magoo · « **Reply #17 on:** January 07, 2006, 09:08:01 AM »

I think Freedom has a package that gets pretty close to that with reworked heads, new pistons,their cams,bore efi. Somebody Icann't remeber who had it done during street vibes last year.

fatboyse2 · « **Reply #18 on:** January 07, 2006, 09:10:42 AM »

Yep, it's possible, but you won't be able to ride it for long.

HUBBARD · « **Reply #19 on:** January 07, 2006, 04:37:44 PM »

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If you just drop off the bike and a couple of hundred bucks next time I've got the dyno available to me, I'll get you a sheet with 120 plus....no need for any mods...
[smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]

[smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]Later--HUBBARD

DCFIREMANN · « **Reply #20 on:** January 07, 2006, 04:42:10 PM »

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Yep, it's possible, but you won't be able to ride it for long.

Why not?

I have a 95 carb dyna that is over 120 and I can ride it forever. There should be no more wear over your stock 103 if you use the right parts and try to stay off the wick. Zippers has a 124 that puts 156 to the rear wheel and is built to be reliable.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

HUBBARD · « **Reply #21 on:** January 07, 2006, 05:41:09 PM »

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Why not? [highlight]I have a 95 carb dyna that is over 120 and I can ride it forever[/highlight]. There should be no more wear over your stock 103 if you use the right parts and try to stay off the wick. Zippers has a 124 that puts 156 to the rear wheel and is built to be reliable.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Yeah, 'er 'uh, Dawg,
You bringin' that Bike to Daytona in the Spring? We could stretch 'em out on 95 South!

Later--HUBBARD

HUBBARD · « **Reply #22 on:** January 07, 2006, 05:48:53 PM »

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So Otis your saying 7K to gain 20hp considering that you already have 100 hp with a good tune on a stocker with aftermarket exhaust and a SERT.

Yeah, 'er 'uh, jimp,
Not to be a "Doubting Thomas", but if you reached 100HP with those Mods, you have an exception to the rule. I'd like to see Ol' Maudie's numbers on that dyno. Later--HUBBARD

HUBBARD · « **Reply #23 on:** January 07, 2006, 05:53:39 PM »

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The 113 HP is WITHOUT the HP Inc throttle body. I took it off

HUBBARD · « **Reply #24 on:** January 07, 2006, 06:05:49 PM »

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So how about the [highlight]stock heads,[/highlight] the 120 can't be accomplished using them?

Yeah, 'er 'uh, jimp,
No. If and when, I ever purchase a new CVO, I've made my mind up to take the stock 103" and Tranny out, save it, and build a "BIG MOTOR" and put a new 6-speed with it. By my math, it's less expensive, all things considered. But that's just me.

Later--HUBBARD

fatboyse2 · « **Reply #25 on:** January 07, 2006, 06:20:15 PM »

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Why not? I have a 95 carb dyna that is over 120 and I can ride it forever. There should be no more wear over your stock 103 if you use the right parts and try to stay off the wick. Zippers has a 124 that puts 156 to the rear wheel and is built to be reliable.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Carb maybe, EFI doubtful without a lot of costly stage 4 rework and very high compression and lift. Why would you build this kinda motor unless it was a high rpm racer:-/. I'd question the street reliability.

OTIS · « **Reply #26 on:** January 07, 2006, 07:42:58 PM »

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OTIS,

DCFIREMANN · « **Reply #27 on:** January 07, 2006, 08:11:48 PM »

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Yeah, 'er 'uh, Dawg,

Grover · « **Reply #28 on:** January 07, 2006, 08:19:22 PM »

Mr. Otis,

I have the Dyno sheets. But not with me right now. If all goes well, I'll post them tomorrow. I read Schraders mods... I had the identical set-up, I believe.
My new project is the 113c.i. w/geardrive, Horsepower Inc. TB. + a few more things I can't mention. We are estimating 128-135 hp/tq. And if I decide to kick it in the N.A.D.S. An even bigger boost

Catcha L8R,

Grover

OTIS · « **Reply #29 on:** January 07, 2006, 08:46:02 PM »

Grover talk to Shrader about the HP INC throtle body.

OTIS

Grover · « **Reply #30 on:** January 07, 2006, 09:28:15 PM »

My Horsepower Inc. TB is already here. 53mm. I'll pm him about this subject later. I gotta go now... CYA

Thanks Otis,

Grover [smiley=smoking.gif]

p.s. Tell brother Hubbard not to kick Ole Maudie in N.A.D.S. he just might hurt himself!!

[smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] And also, I take it he hasn't seen my post in the 1K comments section. I thought it would get him going [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]. He WILL get some N.A.D.S. now, just so he doesn't have to look at my plate in Maggie Valley this fall...

[smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]

SHRADER · « **Reply #31 on:** January 07, 2006, 09:32:55 PM »

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BLM you are exactly right.

Grover · « **Reply #32 on:** January 07, 2006, 09:38:35 PM »

I'm sure Harley's #'s are off an engine dynometer for the higher crank readings.

jimp · « **Reply #33 on:** January 07, 2006, 09:45:56 PM »

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Yeah, 'er 'uh, jimp,

SHRADER · « **Reply #34 on:** January 07, 2006, 09:51:50 PM »

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I'm sure Harley's #'s are off an engine dynometer for the higher crank readings.

Depends on what numbers you are talking about. If you are referring to those in the SE catalog referencing SE parts they are supposed to be Rear Wheel. But just like anything else they are free to fudge because of the old "actual mileage may vary" kinda routine. Don't forget that about the only production bike that they brag about the HP on is a V-Rod, alledged to produce 115hp at the rear wheel. Now I ask you how many stock V-Rods have you seen pull 115. In my own experience a stock V-Rod is lucky to bust 105hp. In fact in the last two VA State Rallys several have been run on the same dyno as my bike and I think only one busted the 100 mark (104) and it had a Stage I kit and a 2 into one exhaust.

I guess in a nutshell whenever I look a Harleys SE numbers I automatically take of 5-10 hp just because experience tells me to do so.

REGARDS
SHRADER

John S · « **Reply #35 on:** January 08, 2006, 07:56:57 AM »

There are a whole lot of ways to "cheat" the dyno but let's "assume" everyone is going to play by the rules...

To get 120HP out of a 103 means you have to be at a 1.165HP/cubic inch ratio.

BLM777 · « **Reply #36 on:** January 08, 2006, 08:13:40 AM »

Great point John. Often, it's a lot more cost effective to increase the CI's to get where you're going on HP than to stretch a smaller motor with lots and lots of bucks. Sure don't want to "assume" that all the dyno runs are playing fair though. Too many years of watching engine builders and parts suppliers inflate the numbers to match the invoice.

DCFIREMANN · « **Reply #37 on:** January 08, 2006, 08:43:58 AM »

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Depends on what numbers you are talking about. If you are referring to those in the SE catalog referencing SE parts they are supposed to be Rear Wheel. But just like anything else they are free to fudge because of the old "actual mileage may vary" kinda routine. Don't forget that about the only production bike that they brag about the HP on is a V-Rod, alledged to produce 115hp at the rear wheel. Now I ask you how many stock V-Rods have you seen pull 115. In my own experience a stock V-Rod is lucky to bust 105hp. In fact in the last two VA State Rallys several have been run on the same dyno as my bike and I think only one busted the 100 mark (104) and it had a Stage I kit and a 2 into one exhaust.

Shrader my new 05 SE VROD spun 117 hp at the local HD shop. They took delivery of 3 VROD Destroyers and were playing with them. The one they were playing with spun 147 out of the box. That was on a dynojet 150.The Dyno that doesn't lie is the Land /Sea dyno. I have worked with a tuner over at Zippers with the one they own and there is a difference between that and the Dynojet dynos numbers. The land /sea is always lower and it is hard to fudge the numbers.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

SHRADER · « **Reply #38 on:** January 09, 2006, 09:09:51 PM »

Dawg

Good numbers for your SE V-Rod. Guess I should have been more specific as I was referring to the 1130cc non-SE V-Rods not the 1250cc SE V-Rod.

Regards
SHRADER

SCRM-R · « **Reply #39 on:** January 12, 2006, 07:36:59 AM »

I believe that you CAN build a reliable 120 hp, 103 motor. I had my mods done one year and over 10,000 miles ago...it runs strong, smooth, and is very reliable with absolutely no problems to date...and I run the hell out of it. I've ridden it around town, around the state, and to the mountains and back...and I wouldn't change one thing about it. It's not exactly 120 hp, but it is dang sure knocking on the door if it, and about as close as you can get without being there...it may even be there now...the chart below was made at the 500 mile break in. Green run = baseline after the build with Rineharts and standard baffles...Red = immediately after changing to the larger performance baffles, and Blue = final run after dyno tuning. This motor started life as a stock 103 motor in a SERK...the numbers prior to the engine mods were 89.5 hp and 94 tq. They are all bolt-on Screamin' Eagle parts...details of what's in it are listed in my Homepage. Would I do this exact build again? Hell yes.

BLM777 · « **Reply #40 on:** January 12, 2006, 07:43:23 AM »

Very strong numbers, Tally. Did you do the build yourself?

SCRM-R · « **Reply #41 on:** January 12, 2006, 08:08:37 AM »

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Very strong numbers, Tally.

BLM777 · « **Reply #42 on:** January 12, 2006, 08:42:57 AM »

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No, but I did the research and decided what I wanted in it.

SCRM-R · « **Reply #43 on:** January 12, 2006, 08:50:59 AM »

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Next time you're coming South, PM me.

bbsiding · « **Reply #44 on:** January 12, 2006, 10:27:59 PM »

through with it? we are never though til the title to the new one shows up!!!!

bbsiding · « **Reply #45 on:** January 12, 2006, 10:40:24 PM »

By the way,, I just dropped mine off at Doc's HD in Kirkwood Mo for little pick me up. I'm gonna sit on the fence between insane and affordable. 103+ heads, gear drive, T-Man cams, 103+ pistons +.005, and already has the air cleaner, Thunder header and PC. After I run it in I'll take it back for a Dyno tune and let everyone know what it turns with this setup. They got 100.1 and 110tq out of my 95" heritage last jan. HTCC heads and pistons, Woods cams,Twin Tech ignition, Pythons,se ac, 44Cv. That was 2800. In my experience, after the first cheap horsepower increase, air cleaner and pipes, it's about 100.00 per hp up to the 1hp/1cui ratio. I haven't ventured past that yet.....

lair116 · « **Reply #46 on:** January 17, 2006, 11:31:58 AM »

JIMP,
All you have to do is just add on 13 more inches to your motor and your dyno might look like this [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]

Unbalanced · « **Reply #47 on:** January 17, 2006, 11:57:08 AM »

lair116,

Do you have True Duals on this bike?
What did you tune the bike with Power Commander or Race Tuner?
What are you using for Fuel Delivery EFI / Carb ? and what size ?

Thanks,

-harry

lair116 · « **Reply #48 on:** January 17, 2006, 04:46:13 PM »

harry-
   I run the basonnies true duels with there baffles
   No tunner here, just by my ear and experance, you konw test and tune
  I run a 48mm S&S G carb that DaVincie made for me , and there manifold which I ported out my self to match the runners to the carb and heads plus remove all the casting marks on the inside which made a big differance

But as you can see that Dyno was a old one and I don't have that dip in any more, it goes stright up now, and you would not believe how I stumbuled on that... I was tired of cleaning the rear rim after every ride so I called J&P cycle and bought a set BUB's 90 degree inserts to devert the exhaust out to the right and it sure worked, since then I haven't cleaned the rim yet... BuT to my surprise I thought these inserts would hold back the performance but it did just the oppasit , it gave me more back pressure and the dip went away and I ganed 5 more hp and 6 more lbs of TQ, I could not believe I was doing 110 mph in 4 gear and still had 2 more gears left... go figure that one out , all I know it brought a hugh smile to my face from ear to ear

what are you running? thanks

Lair. PS, sorry for the bad pic those poloroids are the worst, I just bought a new didge, camera but have to read up a little more on it.

HUBBARD · « **Reply #49 on:** January 17, 2006, 05:06:17 PM »

Yeah, 'er 'uh, lair116,
110 in 4th, with 2 to go...........now, that's my kinda' ridin'! WFO! Later--HUBBARD

DCFIREMANN · « **Reply #50 on:** January 17, 2006, 10:13:20 PM »

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Yeah, 'er 'uh, lair116,

the O`Fender · « **Reply #51 on:** January 18, 2006, 12:24:47 PM »

Here is a blower for 5k that will give you more than 120 hp http://www.wbtinc.com/index.cfmand installs in less than 3 hours.

lair116 · « **Reply #52 on:** January 18, 2006, 05:41:16 PM »

A guy I met at the broken ore had a blower on his 80'' and it screamed and the sound was awsom, I was at the Harley shop yesterday and they wanted to give $12,000 on my Deuce for one of those V-Rods nnnoootttt!! if I was to trade it in it would be for there drag bike but even then there not street legal,besides I have the title for my Deuce [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif] [smiley=jalapeno.gif] [smiley=jalapeno.gif] [smiley=jalapeno.gif] [smiley=jalapeno.gif] no more payments [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]

kng103 · « **Reply #53 on:** January 27, 2006, 12:44:07 PM »

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I believe that you CAN build a reliable 120 hp, 103 motor.

SCRM-R · « **Reply #54 on:** January 28, 2006, 03:49:18 PM »

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however i would think that you would want to be at 100#'s of torque at around 2500rpms.
its the usable torque thats important.

You're probably right...but I don't spend much time puttin' around at 2500 rpms either. And when you hit 3,000, it's like you flipped a swith from there to WFO!! That's the way I like to ride. There are those whose sweet spot is 2000 to 3000 rpms. Mine's from 3000 to 6000! FUN?! You bet. Like I said before, I'd do this same build again, except now some of you guys have me scared about these chain drive cams, so I've got to do some research for my next project...gear drive...I just don't want to screw up the way it runs, so I'm taking it slow with deciding which gear drive cams. Thought I might talk to the guys at Zippers in Daytona in few weeks. I hear that they will be at Destination Daytona.

Fired00d · « **Reply #55 on:** January 28, 2006, 07:09:28 PM »

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[highlight]You're probably right...but I don't spend much time puttin' around at 2500 rpms either.[/highlight]

SCRM-R · « **Reply #56 on:** January 28, 2006, 07:37:00 PM »

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Plus the better half holds on tighter sooner.

Yep, she's learned to hold on all right...and starts pokin' me in the ribs above 100...that means slow down...or else!

Fired00d · « **Reply #57 on:** January 28, 2006, 07:39:52 PM »

All you get is a poke when you go to triple digits on the speedo? Man you are lucky it's time like this (triple digits on the speedo) that I'm thankful I live in a helmet law state.

/me gets smacked on the helmet [smiley=nervous.gif]

[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]

HUBBARD · « **Reply #58 on:** January 28, 2006, 10:09:17 PM »

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All you get is a poke when you go to triple digits on the speedo? Man you are lucky it's time like this (triple digits on the speedo) that I'm thankful I live in a helmet law state.

/me gets smacked on the helmet [smiley=nervous.gif]

[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]

Yeah, 'er 'uh, Fired00d,
I always tell 'em I don't need any instructions, or criticism, on how to ride, or handle this Motorsickle. I'm not gonna' hurt Ol' HUB, so don't worry about YOU! I also tell them, if a situation would occur, that requires my undivided attention, don't say, or do anything that would possibly distract me. This is a point I make perfectly clear, without exception, with every potential passenger. There endeth the lesson. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] Later--HUBBARD

lair116 · « **Reply #59 on:** January 29, 2006, 10:46:06 AM »

I look at this way... I live hard, ride hard and love speed and power,I wear a safty halmet at work but not on my bike, and has saved my head maney times and thaths was just walking around and tripted and fell on a$$ and back and hit my head, it saved my head but I'm black and blue from the neck down

What my point is hear what good is a halmet going to do for you if you get T-boned going 20 mpr through an intersection from a car who ran a red light going 55 mpr, chances are your neck will snap like a twig with all that weight on your head and every bone broken in your body..I guess you won't be brain dead so you could roll that wheel chair around with a stick in your mouth cause you can't feal nothing from the neck down, I rather be in Harley heven then live like that, 145 mph on my bike with out a halmet is the way I choose to ride, living life on the edge is exciting for me...no fear no joy, I live for today and don't worry about tomorrow cause tomorrow could never come.....hug you children every chance you get.. just my old country boy 2 cents..... 3 diget riding is all I want to do, Why!! cause it's in my blood life is good,

lair..

OTIS · « **Reply #60 on:** January 29, 2006, 09:55:46 PM »

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I look at this way... I live hard, ride hard and love speed and power,I wear a safty halmet at work but not on my bike, and has saved my head maney times and thaths was just walking around and tripted and fell on a$$ and back and hit my head, it saved my head but I'm black and blue from the neck down

Author Topic: 120 HP ? (Read 7117 times)