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CVO Technical => Intake/Exhaust/ECM => Topic started by: Fullsac Performance on March 29, 2019, 03:23:56 PM
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This was a back to back dyno test comparing the TTS 200 against the TTS 250. No other mechanical changes were made. Bike was completely retuned after the cam swap. All runs were done on the same tank of gas.
Build specs
2017 M8, 124", SE CNC heads, SE 64 TB, Fullsac MX Pipe, 2.0 baffles. TTS 200 VS TTS 250.
The TQ lines says it all. From 2500 RPM and up the TTS250 took over and ran away! I really expected more of a low end loss, but that wasn't the case. Another killer cam from TTS!
Special thanks to Chris M from Kelso Washington for letting us test with his 124.
Steve@fullsac.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3CR8DWSDIk
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That looks very nice, especially 2500rpm and up, but still over 120 torque from 2000 rpm up.
Couple of questions, do you know what the compression is on that motor? Also what air cleaner?
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Ya know, I upgraded to a 117 several years ago, have over 110hp and tq, when I get on it, I also come off the bike my hands are actually pulling off the handle bars, I'm very careful in my riding, my bike is more than fast enough for me, so my question is how much hp and tq. do we need now days, I've been riding for years, I'm not a novice, but I'll never go above to what I have, and besides, to have a motor like that is only bragging rights, you ain't gonna win any races!, stay safe my brother and ride free!
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Awesome results as always when you get the two Steve's putting your heads together! Do you know exactly what internals/kit were/was used to get to the 124"? I'm also assuming that this is a liquid cooled motor of which model bike? We just gotta know all the goods Steve...lol
TIA, Kelly
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That looks very nice, especially 2500rpm and up, but still over 120 torque from 2000 rpm up.
Couple of questions, do you know what the compression is on that motor? Also what air cleaner?
Hi Dave
Compression is right at 11-1. No AC, open TB on both the before and after test runs. It will get the heavy breather put back on, it shows about a 2 HP loss. I was happy and surprised the SE 10 disc clutch held tight at 150 TQ. The rear wheel tossed all the weights off right out of the gate and vibrated hard giving us the jagged TQ lines as the wheel speed went north of 150 MPH. In case anybody noticed?
Steve@fullsac.com
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Awesome results as always when you get the two Steve's putting your heads together! Do you know exactly what internals/kit were/was used to get to the 124"? I'm also assuming that this is a liquid cooled motor of which model bike? We just gotta know all the goods Steve...lol
TIA, Kelly
The bike started life as a 2017 aircooled 107. It now has a stock HD 4.5 crank, Suburban Speed Piston Kit, out of the box SE CNC heads, SE 64 TB. Nothing special or massaged. Just a good combo.
Steve@fullsac.com
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OK I'll bite, what does a 4.5 crank come stock in?
Thanks
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OK I'll bite, what does a 4.5 crank come stock in?
Thanks
4.5" is the stroke of a stock crank in a CVO 117. Bore the stock cylinder to 4.185 and you have a 124". And now with the 4.25 piston and barrel kits, you have 128". It just keeps getting better!
Steve@fullsac.com
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Awesome, thanks for the quick response and the great info Steve. :2vrolijk_21:
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Do the screaming eagle heads come with different valve springs or is that neccisary to Change springs and pushrods with the tts cam ? Also did he run the factory oil pump or swap it for a fueling or s and s one ?
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Ya know, I upgraded to a 117 several years ago, have over 110hp and tq, when I get on it, I also come off the bike my hands are actually pulling off the handle bars, I'm very careful in my riding, my bike is more than fast enough for me, so my question is how much hp and tq. do we need now days, I've been riding for years, I'm not a novice, but I'll never go above to what I have, and besides, to have a motor like that is only bragging rights, you ain't gonna win any races!, stay safe my brother and ride free!
Oh, he might win a few races. That bike would be a hell of a lot of fun to ride!
Might want to get a different seat or bars if 110 hp and tq is pulling your hands off of the bars.....that's not normal.
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Ya know, I upgraded to a 117 several years ago, have over 110hp and tq, when I get on it, I also come off the bike my hands are actually pulling off the handle bars, I'm very careful in my riding, my bike is more than fast enough for me, so my question is how much hp and tq. do we need now days, I've been riding for years, I'm not a novice, but I'll never go above to what I have, and besides, to have a motor like that is only bragging rights, you ain't gonna win any races!, stay safe my brother and ride free!
I upgraded a few years ago, my 13 CVO King to a 117. Its 138.5HP and 140 torque, a total blast to ride. Pulls great from 2500 rpm and up. Long flat torque curve. It is the easiest bike I have ever owned to ride. Pulls hard out of mountain curves, roll on passing power at 75 mph.
The above is so nice, I want to build a M8 to have even more power, as it will be even smoother. The way the torque comes on in the M8 it will be even more fun to ride.
I follow most the M8 builds that are similar to what I want, and this one fits the bill. My desire is to build a 128/130 with 150 HP and Torque or more.
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Hi Dave
Compression is right at 11-1. No AC, open TB on both the before and after test runs. It will get the heavy breather put back on, it shows about a 2 HP loss. I was happy and surprised the SE 10 disc clutch held tight at 150 TQ. The rear wheel tossed all the weights off right out of the gate and vibrated hard giving us the jagged TQ lines as the wheel speed went north of 150 MPH. In case anybody noticed?
Steve@fullsac.com
Nice to see your head pipe is working at this power. Real nice to see a stock clutch handling that power.
So do you think the TTS250 cam in a 128/130 inch motor with 11.4 or maybe even 11.6 compression work even better? Reading that the Cam say no more than 12.0 to 1.
I will be using a HPI 62 mm throttle body, also going to have my spare CVO117 heads worked. Plan to use your MX head pipe I have, and the AIM clutch upgrade. Think at 128 or 130 inch, and 11.4 or so compression I should be able to get very close to 150 HP and just over 150 torque, and still have a reliable bike on pump gas.
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Do the screaming eagle heads come with different valve springs or is that neccisary to Change springs and pushrods with the tts cam ? Also did he run the factory oil pump or swap it for a fueling or s and s one ?
The TTS 200 and 250 both require a valve spring upgrade. Stock pushrods work fine. The SE CNC heads come with the upgraded springs. This bike had a dealer installed Stage IV kit with the CNC heads and 64 TB the first time I built it. It left my shop as a 120", ran flawless for 2K miles, sumped and burnt down. It was rebuilt and bumped to 124", TTS 200, Harley's latest oil pump, ported oil passages and vent lines. Ran flawless for 2K miles, sumped again, but the more educated owner shut it down before any damage took place. Round three! Now it has the S+S three rotor pump, more vent lines, and a TTS 250 cam because I was in there anyways. Made big power, but will it sump again? Fingers crossed. It's heading to Bike week Monday morning for a week long shake down. And yes, there will be races won.
Steve@fullsac.com
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Nice to see your head pipe is working at this power. Real nice to see a stock clutch handling that power.
So do you think the TTS250 cam in a 128/130 inch motor with 11.4 or maybe even 11.6 compression work even better? Reading that the Cam say no more than 12.0 to 1.
I will be using a HPI 62 mm throttle body, also going to have my spare CVO117 heads worked. Plan to use your MX head pipe I have, and the AIM clutch upgrade. Think at 128 or 130 inch, and 11.4 or so compression I should be able to get very close to 150 HP and just over 150 torque, and still have a reliable bike on pump gas.
150HP will not be a problem at a 128". 11.5 compression in fair weather should be doable. Not so sure above 90 degrees? A good tune will be critical. Who's headwork did you have in mind? :vrolijk_11:
Steve@fullsac.com
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Thanks Steve.
I have been looking for Dyno numbers for almost that exact combo.
I like the 11:1 ratio the more I do my research, originally thought 11:5-11:8 would be the sweet spot, but the 11:1 will run cooler in the end.
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150HP will not be a problem at a 128". 11.5 compression in fair weather should be doable. Not so sure above 90 degrees? A good tune will be critical. Who's headwork did you have in mind? :vrolijk_11:
Steve@fullsac.com
May have to go a little lower in compression then. Want to be able to ride the bike, in any weather, or temp. It will be interesting to see if the S&S pump eliminates his sumping. I like the design of the pump. Talked to them in Daytona about the reasoning for the design. They did not promise it would cure sumping. They also said no one has called and said their bike sumped with that pump in it.
I am think about using Don at HD Street Performance again. He did a real good job with my 110 heads for my 13 King.
That said it seems like Wards is doing a good job with the M8 heads. I'm going to be researching a few more months. Want to do it right like I did with my King. Want to be able to ride it cross country, and have loads of power.
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That said it seems like Wards is doing a good job with the M8 heads.
Even what these bikes are making with stock heads is insane. I'm seeing plenty of 130+HP machines out there with no head work. Add a bigger TB with those stock heads and they seem to keep going further. So much easier and cheaper to make these things powerful than the twin cams.
Not saying headwork won't help, mainly implying how impressive it is to make big HP and broad torque with these things. Still love my twin cam, but excited to have an M8 one day :)
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I'm liking this topic.. I sold all my unused goodies when I traded in my maple in October 2017.
I was finally able to take delivery of my Gunship grey after lumbar fusion Surgery recovery in July 2018.
September 2018 I went back under the knife again for two level cervical fusion. Fortunately I was only off the scoot for 4 weeks... If I had to wear a helmet for the next 2 months it may have been different.
Now 7 months later bone growth can be seen. I'm back to wearing my regular gear and feel a whole lot better.
Now... making it faster is sounding a whole lot better!
I'll be calling Steve next week!
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Steve that is an impressive build. Without that extra back seat weight I bet she will fly! :soapbox:
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Ya know guys, I had work done to my 09, streetglide, have 115hp, 114 tq, and when I get on it, my hanks pull away from the handlebars, if I didn't have a backrest, it would pull me off bike, so at what HP and tq, is it not going to me safe. I'm and old man, been riding since I was a teen, road bikes fast and hard my whole life, when the bike pulls me off of it, that's fast enough, just my opinion! by the way great build!
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Ya know guys, I had work done to my 09, streetglide, have 115hp, 114 tq, and when I get on it, my hanks pull away from the handlebars, if I didn't have a backrest, it would pull me off bike, so at what HP and tq, is it not going to me safe. I'm and old man, been riding since I was a teen, road bikes fast and hard my whole life, when the bike pulls me off of it, that's fast enough, just my opinion! by the way great build!
Totally personal preference, sir.
Since I have been back to riding, and somewhat new to HD's, I must say performance wise, it was a bit of a humbling experience.
Mind you, back in the mid to late 90's during my wild years. I worked at a MC performance shop and we competed in the "worlds fastest streetbike shootout". Hell, my own personal street legal bike made 200hp at the rear wheel, all motor, 275hp+ with a progressive nitrous system. It was an 8sec bike. One of our "street legal" bikes was one of the first 5 to ever break into the 7sec range.
Some of us just can not ever have "enough"!
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ya guys , hows the bottom ends holding up under all this hp ?, factory must have up graded it ! :nixweiss:
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The heads dont need much to get a 128 at 11:1 make 150 square. The tts cam and mx exhaust help. The SE64 with a touch up is doing a little better than the hpi. Just finished boring Joe's 126, 4.280 x 4.375. Heads next.
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The heads dont need much to get a 128 at 11:1 make 150 square. The tts cam and mx exhaust help. The SE64 with a touch up is doing a little better than the hpi. Just finished boring Joe's 126, 4.280 x 4.375. Heads next.
Keep us in the loop. Sounds like an awesome build.