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CVO Technical => Intake/Exhaust/ECM => Topic started by: grandpa geez on November 28, 2009, 10:36:32 AM
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Ive decided Im gonna go with the TTS mastertune on my 06 SEUC. I thought I saw on here somewhere that someone on here sells these for a pretty good price but I dont remember who it is. So if somebody wouldnt mind pointing me in his direction it would be greatly appreciated!!! Thanks :help:
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you gonna add O2 to it?
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Ive decided Im gonna go with the TTS mastertune on my 06 SEUC. I thought I saw on here somewhere that someone on here sells these for a pretty good price but I dont remember who it is. So if somebody wouldnt mind pointing me in his direction it would be greatly appreciated!!! Thanks :help:
There are several... search the Vendor Discounts (http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?board=45.0) board using "TTS Mastertune" as search criteria.
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
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you gonna add O2 to it?
No, not adding O2
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There are several... search the Vendor Discounts (http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?board=45.0) board using "TTS Mastertune" as search criteria.
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
Thanks dood :2vrolijk_21:
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Thanks dood :2vrolijk_21:
You're welcome. :2vrolijk_21:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
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No, not adding O2
If I may ask, what is your rationale for wanting the TTS if you are not tuning for O2 sensor feedback closed loop tuning? :nixweiss: ???
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If I may ask, what is your rationale for wanting the TTS if you are not tuning for O2 sensor feedback closed loop tuning? :nixweiss: ???
No rationalization about it just been hearing its the latest and greatest thing out right now.......Although if you have any input to what different (maybe cheaper) route I might want to take, Id be glad to listen
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I have been considering this set up. Seems to be the best for the price and customer service.
http://www.fuelmotousa.com/
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I have been considering this set up. Seems to be the best for the price and customer service.
http://www.fuelmotousa.com/
The guy that will be tuning my bike mentioned that also. And since I dont have the O2 sensor to worry about that would probably be a better way to go, Thanks
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The guy that will be tuning my bike mentioned that also. And since I dont have the O2 sensor to worry about that would probably be a better way to go, Thanks
An Add-on device that can fail is never a better way to go in my opinion. Having said that if the tuner you are using is more familiar with the Power Commander than you will likely get a better tune from them.
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No rationalization about it just been hearing its the latest and greatest thing out right now.......Although if you have any input to what different (maybe cheaper) route I might want to take, Id be glad to listen
The TTS Mastertune IS the latest and greatest IMO for FI bikes. It offers the individual the power of tuning via the V-Tune mode for his particular build/components capable of tuning the bike to 90-95% efficacy in the range you as the rider actually ride the bike versus paying a dynotuner big money to get the last 5% out of the motor at WOT where none of us ride anyway. HOWEVER, it is a tuner that receives it's closed loop feedback from the 02 sensors, therefore, if you opt out of putting 02 sensors in your pipes it then becomes as useless as tits on a boar hog. It does require rider input during the tuning phase, but again, with each V-Tune session it "builds" the tune to YOUR specific engine demands and requirements. That, to me, is optimal.
http://www.mastertune.net/files/calibrations.asp
Here is a link to the TTS website. I'd would recommend downloading the Mastertune tuning manual and giving it a read. It is found under "MANUALS".
PS....."cheaper" is not always better and for what we pay for these machines, I like OPTIMAL. :P
If you do not want to add the 02 sensors then get the PowerCommander.
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This is awesome gettin some good feedback..........Ok now what do you guys think about the race tuner?
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POS, JMO
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This is awesome gettin some good feedback..........Ok now what do you guys think about the race tuner?
If you're not doing the tune yourself then get the tuner the person is doing the tune is most familiar with.... anything else then the tuner is learning on your bike. :nervous:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
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This is awesome gettin some good feedback..........Ok now what do you guys think about the race tuner?
You'll need 02 sensors. (http://forums.themustangsource.com/images/smilies/heh.gif)
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I have a 09 se roadglide ,I went with tts race tuner and basani pipes with a vance and hines thunder header and got 95 horse and 112 torque and have no problems
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fullsac.com
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I checked out the site, do you think they offer a better set up than what I already did ?I always appreciate input
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I checked out the site, do you think they offer a better set up than what I already did ?I always appreciate input
I'm not going to say Better, but i will say cheaper
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The TTS Mastertune IS the latest and greatest IMO for FI bikes. It offers the individual the power of tuning via the V-Tune mode for his particular build/components capable of tuning the bike to 90-95% efficacy in the range you as the rider actually ride the bike versus paying a dynotuner big money to get the last 5% out of the motor at WOT where none of us ride anyway.
Quote
Just finished TTS training here at Latus and we are now a dealer for that product. It is the pre-Pro Tuner version of SERT and is by the same people who made SERT. But it has several new features that SERT/SEST does not. How "user friendly" the software is depends on your experiance with SERT. New users to SERT have traditionaly found the learning curve fairly steep.
The TTS does NOT eleminate the need for dyno tuning. In fact a dyno is required for non-closed loop cells, WOT and "learned" cell tuning. An owner can, however with diligence, record "learned" cell VE values and generate new VE tables based on these, in the closed loop active areas. They will not be as accurate as those done on a dyno as they are transitional vs steady state. But this wil not address WOT fuel, timing and open loop functions. Timing could be tuned via data record by looking at knock control but this will not give a complete picture, especially on high compression motors.
Head or compression changes are massive to air flow and the closed loop system may not have the ability to account for these. Other tables may also require adjustments, that are done manually, with these changes.
__________________
Mike Stegmann
Performance Consultant
Team Latus Motors Harley-Davidson
End of quote
So how user friendly is TTS?
Warwick
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keep in mind, when he said "just finished training" he didn't say it was for the Dyno/TTS marriage. mastertune offers different training programs. one for dummies, and others for more advanced.
A Dyno will fine tune but to what degree beyond V-Tune, according to Steve Cole, the designer of TTS, you can get as close as 98% of a dyno with a good V-tune.
as far as ease, as long as you have good computer skills, way beyond email, you can do it. just read all the manuals and help files.
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keep in mind, when he said "just finished training" he didn't say it was for the Dyno/TTS marriage. mastertune offers different training programs. one for dummies, and others for more advanced.
A Dyno will fine tune but to what degree beyond V-Tune, according to Steve Cole, the designer of TTS, you can get as close as 98% of a dyno with a good V-tune.
as far as ease, as long as you have good computer skills, way beyond email, you can do it. just read all the manuals and help files.
Being a "dummy", it WAS a steep learning curve to get comfortable with the V-Tune program, but, once you use it, it works pretty well.
IMO
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Quote
Just finished TTS training here at Latus and we are now a dealer for that product. It is the pre-Pro Tuner version of SERT and is by the same people who made SERT. But it has several new features that SERT/SEST does not. How "user friendly" the software is depends on your experiance with SERT. New users to SERT have traditionaly found the learning curve fairly steep.
The TTS does NOT eleminate the need for dyno tuning. In fact a dyno is required for non-closed loop cells, WOT and "learned" cell tuning. An owner can, however with diligence, record "learned" cell VE values and generate new VE tables based on these, in the closed loop active areas. They will not be as accurate as those done on a dyno as they are transitional vs steady state. But this wil not address WOT fuel, timing and open loop functions. Timing could be tuned via data record by looking at knock control but this will not give a complete picture, especially on high compression motors.
Head or compression changes are massive to air flow and the closed loop system may not have the ability to account for these. Other tables may also require adjustments, that are done manually, with these changes.
__________________
Mike Stegmann
Performance Consultant
Team Latus Motors Harley-Davidson
End of quote
So how user friendly is TTS?
Warwick
Being a Dyno Tuner myself and using the TTS MT almost exclusively, I agree with a lot of the philosophy that Mike Stegmann writes.
But I also have assisted with and have witnessed some pretty good tunes via the street using the TTS MT and the V-Tune feature. I also know getting 98% as close a "good" Dyno Tune is a pretty lofty goal. If truly obtained, this percentage would take patience, tenacity, as well as a thorough understanding of Delphi system and the ability to read and comprehend the graphs and data logs produced by the TTS MT.
As far as percentages, a local HD dealer that sends me Dyno Tuning work puts it this way...
[Paraphrasing] Most guys are happy with 70% and we can do this in house. When they want 100% we send them to you.
I humbly receive this as a compliment but also understand where he is coming from and admire his honesty.
The 70 percenters may not ever know what they are missing until they ride a bike of a given (same) build tuned to 100% of its potential.
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Don't get me wrong, if I had someone close that dyno'd with MT, I would take the Ghost there without a doubt. It's just that there aren't that many out there. And I don't have the spare 20 k to get one. So for now the Vtune is great
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Being a Dyno Tuner myself and using the TTS MT almost exclusively, I agree with a lot of the philosophy that Mike Stegmann writes.
But I also have assisted with and have witnessed some pretty good tunes via the street using the TTS MT and the V-Tune feature. I also know getting 98% as close a "good" Dyno Tune is a pretty lofty goal. If truly obtained, this percentage would take patience, tenacity, as well as a thorough understanding of Delphi system and the ability to read and comprehend the graphs and data logs produced by the TTS MT.
As far as percentages, a local HD dealer that sends me Dyno Tuning work puts it this way...
[Paraphrasing] Most guys are happy with 70% and we can do this in house. When they want 100% we send them to you.
I humbly receive this as a compliment but also understand where he is coming from and admire his honesty.
The 70 percenters may not ever know what they are missing until they ride a bike of a given (same) build tuned to 100% of its potential.
Thanks! Excellent write up! Couldn't agree more, especially the last sentence!!! ;)
Hoist! :coolblue:
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Have purchased my TTS MT from Herko. Great to deal with, most highly recommend.
I've also added o2's to my '06 FLHRI as well as tuning it myself as an '07 with o2's for closed loop operation.
IMHO, I feel that the TTS tune is at least 70% better then a stock tune. So if I've got another 30% to go, then a stock tune right off the dealerships floor must be in the negative numbers? And many ride with them for a long time. Heat, popping, back fires, heat management issues, and other issues to numerous to list.
I would not be discouraged by how close to a dyno tune that you can or not get.
You can get very close and I'm sure all the percentals are purely subjective, but if you had a tuner with a dyno you would get the the very best tune.
IMHO I bought this TTS MT for my bike to do many mod's myself. So I would not have to get a good street-able tune from a dyno and have to pay for the tune over and over. I feel that TTS MT has done it very well with my first tuning, and I'm not a tuner.
I don't have the excess heat, back firing, or missing. My mileage has increased to higher then 27 mpg, to what I'm not exactly sure this moment. But estimate its over 37 mpg. And the seat of the pants tq has increased a quite a bit over what it was stock. Its really running great IMO.
And if you do choose to do all yourself you have quite a reference library right here as well as a number of other forums. (but a lot of these members as myself frequent more than this one so you may see them around with the same name at the other sites)
More food for thought.
Best of luck with your choice.
Gary
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The number of 98% tune was/is a lofty goal but the truth is people are out there doing it. Proving it by going to the dyno afterwards and letting the dyno tuner trying to get more. While I said the number would be around 85% of a good dyno tune to start with people have been proving me wrong a lot more than I expected. The truth of it is that some dyno tuners are losing some business while customers are having fun doing it themselves. While other dyno operators are embracing it and learning more. The goal is/was to get the tune in each bike the best it can be and i believe we have moved the bar a very big step forward with our products. Whatever you chose to do as long as you enjoy it that's what counts.