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[Midnight Rider]

Got the work done yesterday at Traxxion...as usual, the reaction is WOW!!!!  Was a bit concerned that the rake on the V might make the difference less noticeable on the front end work, but that is absolutely not the case.  The springs that come out of the V rod stock front end...the tech said it is absolutely rediculous that HD puts a spring that weak in a bike like the V.  Front end behaves itself now, under all circumstances.

The shocks:  Performance is great...the three adjustments on the shocks, rebound damping, spring preload, and compression damping, actually work!!  Ride quality is much improved...no more bouncing off the seat on rebounds of the POS stock shock.  Rear wheel stays on the ground over choppy bumps, and my fillings don't get rattled out.  Very simple to make quick adjustments to the suspension, and the operation of the adjusters is very smooth and linear.  Setting proper static sag is very important in initial set up of the shock, then make the rebound adjustments as desired, then firm up the compression settings as needed.

Looks wise, I'm not crazy about how they are on the V, but we're working on that one.

Functionally, both myself and all the others at the shop were impressed with the shocks performance, just comparing them to what they know about in the sport bike and Gold Wing market.

Traxxion has to decide now what the price point will be for "regular" customers and for us as CVO members.  They must also decide about stock, since it takes a bit of time to get the shocks once ordered from Italy. 

The shock MSRP is $780.00 US (this could vary a bit, depending on the order date/exchange rate).  We will probably get a 10-15% discount.  As soon as I know something, I'll post in the vendor discount section.

So, Progressive 440HD's are running about $450-$500, depending on where you find them?  If the Bitubo's turn out to be a feasible alternative, would you be willing to pay another 200-250 for the tunability of the shock?

[Hoist!]

Got the work done yesterday at Traxxion...as usual, the reaction is WOW!!!!  Was a bit concerned that the rake on the V might make the difference less noticeable on the front end work, but that is absolutely not the case.  The springs that come out of the V rod stock front end...the tech said it is absolutely rediculous that HD puts a spring that weak in a bike like the V.  Front end behaves itself now, under all circumstances.

The shocks:  Performance is great...the three adjustments on the shocks, rebound damping, spring preload, and compression damping, actually work!!  Ride quality is much improved...no more bouncing off the seat on rebounds of the POS stock shock.  Rear wheel stays on the ground over choppy bumps, and my fillings don't get rattled out.  Very simple to make quick adjustments to the suspension, and the operation of the adjusters is very smooth and linear.  Setting proper static sag is very important in initial set up of the shock, then make the rebound adjustments as desired, then firm up the compression settings as needed.

Looks wise, I'm not crazy about how they are on the V, but we're working on that one.

Functionally, both myself and all the others at the shop were impressed with the shocks performance, just comparing them to what they know about in the sport bike and Gold Wing market.

Traxxion has to decide now what the price point will be for "regular" customers and for us as CVO members.  They must also decide about stock, since it takes a bit of time to get the shocks once ordered from Italy. 

The shock MSRP is $780.00 US (this could vary a bit, depending on the order date/exchange rate).  We will probably get a 10-15% discount.  As soon as I know something, I'll post in the vendor discount section.

So, Progressive 440HD's are running about $450-$500, depending on where you find them?  If the Bitubo's turn out to be a feasible alternative, would you be willing to pay another 200-250 for the tunability of the shock?

Great report Terry! Glad to see the V saw as much improvement as the Dresser did. That with the shocks, it must ride awesome! The shocks sound really great too. Between yours and Chief's brief reports I'm ready! Answer is YES, when can I order them. Be nice to have before Hot Springs! I'll take mine in Chrome with Heavy Duty Springs if they're giving Materials/Spring choices.

Did Max ride yours before and after? Curious what he thought. Should we be getting a group order ready yet?

Hoist!

[Midnight Rider]

Great report Terry! Glad to see the V saw as much improvement as the Dresser did. That with the shocks, it must ride awesome! The shocks sound really great too. Between yours and Chief's brief reports I'm ready! Answer is YES, when can I order them. Be nice to have before Hot Springs! I'll take mine in Chrome with Heavy Duty Springs if they're giving Materials/Spring choices.

Did Max ride yours before and after? Curious what he thought. Should we be getting a group order ready yet?

Hoist!

Howie...they didn't have to ride the bike before...just sat on it and rocked it like a rocking horse    They were amazed at the amount of dive in the front end, just sitting, locking the front brake, and rocking it down.  Of course, the FL's are just as bad.  Hell, every HD made is just as bad, unless it's been modified in some way.  Max's front AK-20 cartridge is really an amazing piece of work, and one that he invented himself. I read a bunch more stuff while I was there...he cuts NO corners, using the 7071 grade aluminum instead of the cheaper 6021 (I think those numbers are correct)...he invented the Axxion valve.  There is simply no other front suspension out there that can even come close for our bikes.  You can stick all the emulators, springs, fork oil...whatever...and it's simply not going to even come close.  It would be better than stock, but not close to this.  IMO, it's the best money anybody can spend on their bike, regardless of riding style, even the "putters" can benefit.  Those who ride hard at times...it's a must have modification.

I guess I made a mistake getting the Ducati before I got anything else to ride, after my long absence from riding.  It spoiled me, but Max's system gets even our bikes, and especially my V, as close to that as they can be.

Max, Mike, the German sounding tech (Mark?), and another one of the techs rode the bike afterwards.  None of them had ever ridden a V before, or seen a Screamin' Eagle version...they were all surprised when they cracked it above 4K.

I kind of think their plan will be to order several of the shocks for the FLH models (they are all going to be the same shock)...that's what they've got to decide: how many and what type.  They get the spring based on the bike model...there's so much adjustment that actually functions, and isn't just there for looks or to play with, tuning it for the situation, after a little trial and error, would be quick and easy.  The rebound setting is going to be a set it and forget it thing for the most part, or maybe set at two or three for solo and four for two up (there are five settings).  Figure out a couple of settings for the spring preload, and you'd be indexed to dial it in quickly. 

I'd bet that the same shock for the V would also work for the Dyna's, if someone wanted them.

Aesthetically, the shock is well built, with a nicely chromed spring.  I think they make a chrome cap for the shock too...I'm checking on that.  The aluminum resi is machined nicely, and it's just something we're going to have to live with on these shocks.  It could be polished, I suppose, but really doesn't look bad at all as is.  The black tops/bottoms of the shock for the V is a different story, but in this case, if necessary, I'll sacrifice form for function.

They're chatting about it all today, so I'll know something soon.  Just about the entire country of Italy takes August off work, so they will be making a decision soon.

[mr_magoo]

Good news glad you guys are happy.  Progressives are leaking will wait for a price before I decide.

[Midnight Rider]

Here's some pics of the shocks on the Vrod.

Right side first...they're a little blurry.  Sorry

[Midnight Rider]

Left

[Midnight Rider]

Right side top...this shows the compression adjuster.  It has click settings and arrows for hard/soft

[Midnight Rider]

The knurled ring at the bottom is the rebound damping adjuster. Goes from 1-5 for settings

[Midnight Rider]

Rear of the bike...

[Chief]

The knurled ring at the bottom is the rebound damping adjuster. Goes from 1-5 for settings

Two things.

1) The bottoms on mine are chrome.
2) Why don't you spin the bottom of the shock around so you can see the adjustment numbers on the outside.

[110tHunDer]

. . .

So, Progressive 440HD's are running about $450-$500, depending on where you find them?  If the Bitubo's turn out to be a feasible alternative, would you be willing to pay another 200-250 for the tunability of the shock?

Terry, I would probably bite for a $200 premium, but I will await Chief's report after talking with Max about what can be done with regard to the fitment issues and some additional seat time and reports from Chief before I commit.

On a related note, I wonder what pre-dispostion to leaking the Bitubo's have?  Are they better constructed than the Progressives?  It might be interesting to get Max's take on that, as well.

I have grown weary with the Progressive's constant clunking noise and now the leaking (that ends up on the rear pulley and gets flung everywhere ), plus, I plan to do the fork upgrade, hopefully this fall.  So, I would like to do both ends at the same time, just a little too soon to get real excited about the rear shocks at this time with some questions (price/quality of construction/ride quality) yet to be fully answered.

BTW, I think they look right fine on the V-Rod.  The reservoir gives it a nice "mechanical" and purposeful look that compliments the bike, IMHO.

[Midnight Rider]

Whole bike.  When the new V&H pipe gets on the bike next week, it'll have a new look to go with the shocks.

[Midnight Rider]

Two things.

1) The bottoms on mine are chrome.
2) Why don't you spin the bottom of the shock around so you can see the adjustment numbers on the outside.

Interesting that the bottoms are chrome.  I would like that better, at least on bottom.

The numbers are showing, you just can't see them in that shot.

[Chief]

Interesting that the bottoms are chrome.  I would like that better, at least on bottom.

The numbers are showing, you just can't see them in that shot.

Gotcha. I first installed mine with them to the inside and then changed it. The numbers don't show well in my pics either.

[Chief]

Terry, I would probably bite for a $200 premium, but I will await Chief's report after talking with Max about what can be done with regard to the fitment issues and some additional seat time and reports from Chief before I commit.

On a related note, I wonder what pre-dispostion to leaking the Bitubo's have?  Are they better constructed than the Progressives?  It might be interesting to get Max's take on that, as well.

I have grown weary with the Progressive's constant clunking noise and now the leaking (that ends up on the rear pulley and gets flung everywhere ), plus, I plan to do the fork upgrade, hopefully this fall.  So, I would like to do both ends at the same time, just a little too soon to get real excited about the rear shocks at this time with some questions (price/quality of construction/ride quality) yet to be fully answered.

BTW, I think they look right fine on the V-Rod.  The reservoir gives it a nice "mechanical" and purposeful look that compliments the bike, IMHO.

You get that too? I though I was the only one. I feel it in the floorboards. It feels like something is loose somewhere. I'm glad I'm not the only one.

[110tHunDer]

You get that too? I though I was the only one. I feel it in the floorboards. It feels like something is loose somewhere. I'm glad I'm not the only one.

Yeah.  I don't know if it's 'cause they're the heavy duty versions or what, but I've spent a fair amount of time on JR's bike (he has the standard springs) and his doesn't do it.  It's like a totally different bike.

Backing off the preload helps some, but then you lose some ride quality and performance, so that's no good, either.

[Midnight Rider]

Terry, I would probably bite for a $200 premium, but I will await Chief's report after talking with Max about what can be done with regard to the fitment issues and some additional seat time and reports from Chief before I commit.

On a related note, I wonder what pre-dispostion to leaking the Bitubo's have?  Are they better constructed than the Progressives?  It might be interesting to get Max's take on that, as well.

I have grown weary with the Progressive's constant clunking noise and now the leaking (that ends up on the rear pulley and gets flung everywhere ), plus, I plan to do the fork upgrade, hopefully this fall.  So, I would like to do both ends at the same time, just a little too soon to get real excited about the rear shocks at this time with some questions (price/quality of construction/ride quality) yet to be fully answered.

BTW, I think they look right fine on the V-Rod.  The reservoir gives it a nice "mechanical" and purposeful look that compliments the bike, IMHO.

Brian...I can only compare them to shocks I've dealt with before...not progressives.  They appear to be very well constructed.  The reservoir is machined from a solid piece of aluminum, the spring preload is also a nice thick piece of aluminum with well defined and cut notches for the included spanner wrench.  All the adjustment knobs and rings are smooth to operate.  I've been doing some research on the company...they've been around for about 30 years and have a good reputation in Europe, and in the racing world.  They do make a kit for servicing the shock, so they are apparently completely rebuildable.

I'm pretty sure the price is going to be around the $700 mark, but I should know more in the next couple of days.

[Chief]

Yeah.  I don't know if it's 'cause they're the heavy duty versions or what, but I've spent a fair amount of time on JR's bike (he has the standard springs) and his doesn't do it.  It's like a totally different bike.

Backing off the preload helps some, but then you lose some ride quality and performance, so that's no good, either.

That sounds like that may be topping out. I'll get that if I forget to back off the preload after riding heavy. I got a clunk that I felt most in the floorboards, on both bikes. It's gone now.

As far as durability is concerned, I have no idea. Maybe they're rebuildable, and I know this really great shock shop just up the road.

[Boatman]

Thanks TC and Chief for the pictures/reports.  Misc ramblings:

I have been fortunate to have no rebound clunking on my std 12.5" 440's..

If I were Terry, I would tell people I have nitrous on my Vrod.  The bitubo's look high tech on the Vrod.

I will stick with the 440's as long as they last (but that could change).

I highly recommend the AK20 front fork upgrade.

Brian-
Maybe you could send your 440's back to have the std springs installed and the leaks fixed.  Progressive charges less than $100 to change springs and maybe they would reseal under warranty. 

 

[110tHunDer]

That sounds like that may be topping out. I'll get that if I forget to back off the preload after riding heavy. I got a clunk that I felt most in the floorboards, on both bikes. It's gone now.

As far as durability is concerned, I have no idea. Maybe they're rebuildable, and I know this really great shock shop just up the road.

It's definitely a rebound clunk, but I can't get it to totally go away, even when the adjusting ring is all the way counter-clockwise.  If I stay with the Progressives, when I send the one in for the leak, I'll probably send both of them in and have 1/2" longer (to compensate for the heavy duty's stiffness) standard springs installed to see if that helps.

[110tHunDer]

. . .

Brian-
Maybe you could send your 440's back to have the std springs installed and the leaks fixed.  Progressive charges less than $100 to change springs and maybe they would reseal under warranty. 

 

Boatman, I really did type and post my response prior to reading your's.

[Chief]

It's definitely a rebound clunk, but I can't get it to totally go away, even when the adjusting ring is all the way counter-clockwise.  If I stay with the Progressives, when I send the one in for the leak, I'll probably send both of them in and have 1/2" longer (to compensate for the heavy duty's stiffness) standard springs installed to see if that helps.

The springs on mine were fine, but there just isn't enough damping when you really need it. They were fine when riding light, but loaded to the gills, they just didn't have enough.

[Midnight Rider]

The springs on mine were fine, but there just isn't enough damping when you really need it. They were fine when riding light, but loaded to the gills, they just didn't have enough.

Chief...I'm interested in getting Suzanne on the back of the V to see how these do too.  Are you going to ride two up or have a load on the bike anytime soon?

I ride on some rough sections of concrete road in downtown B'ham getting to work and coming home...some of the sections in the concrete would jar my arms and butt fairly hard.  Though the bumps and unevenness is still felt, it is absorbed readily by the rear shocks now, without topping or bottoming out.  Big difference felt with the big rear tire on the bike.  Bumps in the corners don't upset the line as they did previously.  The front end is great of course, but without the rear, it would only be half a bike now.  Me likey the package thus far.  Being able to adjust the rebound is huge.

Bob...the nitrous thought has occured to me as well...

[Chief]

Chief...I'm interested in getting Suzanne on the back of the V to see how these do too.  Are you going to ride two up or have a load on the bike anytime soon?

I ride on some rough sections of concrete road in downtown B'ham getting to work and coming home...some of the sections in the concrete would jar my arms and butt fairly hard.  Though the bumps and unevenness is still felt, it is absorbed readily by the rear shocks now, without topping or bottoming out.  Big difference felt with the big rear tire on the bike.  Bumps in the corners don't upset the line as they did previously.  The front end is great of course, but without the rear, it would only be half a bike now.  Me likey the package thus far.  Being able to adjust the rebound is huge.

Bob...the nitrous thought has occured to me as well...

You mean other than my fat arse?

Maybe next weekend. One thing I really want to do is to spend some time and really get a handle on the preload settings. Not being limited to 5 clicks, it will take a bit more thought, and work, to set it right.

[hdbrad03]

I wonder if they aren't mounted upside down. Some of the pictures I can find on the WEB show them oriented with the reservoir mounted on the bottom. The decals are correct not apperearing upside down. Only a thought. http://www.motorcycle-parts.com.au/BHD004_WMT_03.jpg

[Chief]

I wonderi f they aren't mounted upside down. Some of the pictures I can find on the WEB show then oriented with the reservoir mounted on the bottom. The decals are correct not apperearing upside down. Only a thought. http://www.motorcycle-parts.com.au/BHD004_WMT_03.jpg

That's a very interesting point. The instruction booklet didn't mention mounting orientation at all. My assumption was resevoir at the top, but that's just the way I'm used to seeing them.

[Twolanerider]

Yeah.  I don't know if it's 'cause they're the heavy duty versions or what, but I've spent a fair amount of time on JR's bike (he has the standard springs) and his doesn't do it.  It's like a totally different bike.

Backing off the preload helps some, but then you lose some ride quality and performance, so that's no good, either.

Mine are the heavy duty shocks also Brian.  No clunk here  .

[110tHunDer]

Mine are the heavy duty shocks also Brian.  No clunk here  .

That's what has me leaning toward the Bitubos, at least at this point.  I'm afraid I might still have the noise even if I change the springs on the Progressives.  It may just be some strange issue with my shocks since it seems like some do it and some don't.

Tough call.

[Twolanerider]

That's what has me leaning toward the Bitubos, at least at this point.  I'm afraid I might still have the noise even if I change the springs on the Progressives.  It may just be some strange issue with my shocks since it seems like some do it and some don't.

Tough call.

Lack of product continuity does truly suck Bri.  Makes any decision far more difficult.  For the price diference between the Bitubo product and the Progressive product it'd be a no-brainer if one were getting a first set to upgrade from stock.  A more painfull consideration, however, when you've already purchased one upgrade and (fortunately in my case) they still seem to be working ok. 

I had a leak in one shock but scored a single replacement on eBay.  So for $32.00 I was good to go again and (at least so far) they're giving no real problem.  I do have to remember to check the adjustment ever three months or so as it'll back off a little bit.  If I don't remember it will remind me by bottoming out when it's backed off too far.  But as long as I keep them adjusted the rear end feels pretty good.

[Midnight Rider]

A resi shock, according to Max, doesn't care what end the reservoir is on...it's filled with Nitrogen.

[Chief]

Being the curious sort that I am, I removed the springs from the Progressives to see how the shock function felt without the springs. One of them has that real nice squishy, lost some fluid noise.  It's really bad when I work the shock holding it upside-down.

I've tried getting hold of Progressive several times, but always lose patience after being on hold for several minutes.

Does anyone know how much they charge for a rebuild?

[Chief]

A resi shock, according to Max, doesn't care what end the reservoir is on...it's filled with Nitrogen.

I'm wondering if that is the solution to the saddlebag proximity issue I've got now. The shock channel in the bag is a lot wider at the bottom. Plus, on my shocks, that would put the chrome piece up top, where it can be seen.

[Fired00d]

I'm wondering if that is the solution to the saddlegab proximity issue I've got now. The shock channel in the bag is a lot wider at the bottom. Plus, on my shocks, that would put the chrome piece up top, where it can be seen.

Sounds like you are ready to make a trip to the garage. This is a two for one deal.... Get rid of a possible rubbing issue, and get more chrome showing. You aren't back yet w/pics?

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Midnight Rider]

It looks weird on the V to have it upside down, but all the writing is right side up when you've got the resi "upside down" on my shocks, so that may indeed be the solution to the clearance problem.  I think after a bit of experimenting, there will be two or three settings that work for most situations, so it'll be set 'em and forget 'em for that ride.

I'm sure there are bolts and washers being taken off and put back on even as I write this....

[Fired00d]

It looks weird on the V to have it upside down, but all the writing is right side up when you've got the resi "upside down" on my shocks, so that may indeed be the solution to the clearance problem.  I think after a bit of experimenting, there will be two or three settings that work for most situations, so it'll be set 'em and forget 'em for that ride.

I'm sure there are bolts and washers being taken off and put back on even as I write this....

And pictures being taken.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Chief]

Am I supposed to be doing something? That will have to wait as the lawn mower is the current patient on the table. Maybe tomorrow.

[Midnight Rider]

Am I supposed to be doing something? That will have to wait as the lawn mower is the current patient on the table. Maybe tomorrow.

Hell, my grass ain't growin', Chief...it's going dormant from lack of rain.  Suits me, but I can't wash my scooter...   Haven't seen it this dry here in my lifetime, and I grew up here.  Not this early...it's kind of scarey....

Shocks are more important than a stinkin' lawnmower...that's mandatory work.   

[Chief]

Hell, my grass ain't growin', Chief...it's going dormant from lack of rain.  Suits me, but I can't wash my scooter...   Haven't seen it this dry here in my lifetime, and I grew up here.  Not this early...it's kind of scarey....

Shocks are more important than a stinkin' lawnmower...that's mandatory work.   

Just got my water bill. I sure hate paying more for sewer than I do for water, especially when 20 of the 23 thousand gallons went on the grass.

[Fired00d]

Just got my water bill. I sure hate paying more for sewer than I do for water, especially when 20 of the 23 thousand gallons went on the grass.

Chuck,
Check w/your water service if it's like here they can put another meter on the spigot(s) you use for watering your grass so they can tell how much you are using for that. This way you don't have to pay the sewer rate on that amount that is going on the grass/into the ground.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Chief]

Chuck,
Check w/your water service if it's like here they can put another meter on the spigot(s) you use for watering your grass so they can tell how much you are using for that. This way you don't have to pay the sewer rate on that amount that is going on the grass/into the ground.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

I've gone around and around with them, but for residential property, we only get one meter, and we pay sewer on every drop. We used to get a sewer credit when we exceeded our winter average, the assumption being that the overage was for irrigation. I guess they wanted more money, so that program went away.

It may be time to tap the creek for irrigation water.

[SBB]

Chuck,
Check w/your water service if it's like here they can put another meter on the spigot(s) you use for watering your grass so they can tell how much you are using for that. This way you don't have to pay the sewer rate on that amount that is going on the grass/into the ground.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

dOOd

I can get another meter for just my irrigation system but hell the cost is crazy.
Good idea to get another meter but there are NO free rides in the water business!


 


Am I way off topic or what?

[Fired00d]

I've gone around and around with them, but for residential property, we only get one meter, and we pay sewer on every drop. We used to get a sewer credit when we exceeded our winter average, the assumption being that the overage was for irrigation. I guess they wanted more money, so that program went away.

It may be time to tap the creek for irrigation water.

That sucks. Sounds like it just might be time to get a pump and tap the creek.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Fired00d]

dOOd

I can get another meter for just my irrigation system but hell the cost is crazy.
Good idea to get another meter but there are NO free rides in the water business!


 


Am I way off topic or what?

Doesn't the savings in not paying for sewage offset the initial/ongoing cost though? BTW we're still on topic... More we save on water bill the more we can spend on upgrading things like shocks.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[SBB]

Doesn't the savings in not paying for sewage offset the initial/ongoing cost though? BTW we're still on topic... More we save on water bill the more we can spend on upgrading things like shocks.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

dOOd

Runs me an extra 35 bucks a month to run the sprinklers.
New meter is 1200.
Also new meter draws attention to the tax man to add the value of the system to the tax base for the house.
It's a no win deal so some day I will get the meter. 

[Chief]

dOOd

Runs me an extra 35 bucks a month to run the sprinklers.
New meter is 1200.
Also new meter draws attention to the tax man to add the value of the system to the tax base for the house.
It's a no win deal so some day I will get the meter. 

$35 for the lawn isn't bad. Last month's bill was $23.88. This month it's $172.34. I didn't take that many more showers last month. My bad months are June, July and August. In Sep, it drops right off.

If I don't water the lawn, it gets real bumpy, requiring good shocks since I drive over the lawn to get the bike down to the shop in the basement.

[SBB]

$35 for the lawn isn't bad. Last month's bill was $23.88. This month it's $172.34. I didn't take that many more showers last month. My bad months are June, July and August. In Sep, it drops right off.

If I don't water the lawn, it gets real bumpy, requiring good shocks since I drive over the lawn to get the bike down to the shop in the basement.

Chief

That is the front only and only three times a week.
And that's only 6 months a year, of the other 6, 4 months it's off and the last two months is only twice a week.

Now let me get really off topic?
What's the scoop and poop on the brick lintel?

[Chief]

Chief

That is the front only and only three times a week.
And that's only 6 months a year, of the other 6, 4 months it's off and the last two months is only twice a week.

Now let me get really off topic?
What's the scoop and poop on the brick lintel?

Front only here too, and not all of it. When I get the other side of the driveway sodded, it will only get worse.

After having the SE here on Friday, Pinki and I pulled the frame from the garage door. The header is twin LVL's, so we can't get much better than that. We pulled a string across the bottom of the beam, and it has deflected about 3/8", so I won't even call that a sag. The lintel has probably moved about 1/4" or so too, so the combination of the two is enough to allow it to crack and shift like it did. The lintel is lagged in on two foot centers, but I think the problem lies in the fact that they shimmed it with std framing shims, so they couldn't really pullit up tight and the lags have deflected down a bit. I'll confirm with the SE tomorrow, but I'm thinking it can be fixed by engineering a lintel reattachment plan involving jacks to raise the lintel back up level, shimming with something more solid than cedar shakes, removing lags and through-bolting everything together. This will require sawing out some brickevery 2 feet to get to the lag screws and maybe even adding a few more bolts.

I think if the lintel can be pulled up real tight to the beam, instead of just hanging on the lags, which have probably drooped down from the force 1/2" out from the beam, I can get it all level again without major destructive work.

We'll see what he says tomorrow.

If it all fals down, I'll need REALLY good shocks to get over the pile of rubble. (Staying on topic herre.)