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[SPIDERMAN]

Lest anyone forget, Oklahoma City was diesel fuel and fertilizer. No law against buying either, even in large quantities if you have farm permits. Whatever the means, it's the person delivering it , not the means itself that kills. If there's a debate on this tragedy, it should be about the University's Police Departments response to the first two deaths. Period

B B

[Fired00d]

Lest anyone forget, Oklahoma City was diesel fuel and fertilizer. No law against buying either, even in large quantities if you have farm permits. Whatever the means, it's the person delivering it , not the means itself that kills. If there's a debate on this tragedy, it should be about the University's Police Departments response to the first two deaths. Period

B B

BB,
Not to argue or disagree w/your thoughts/feelings. There has been a lot of armchair quarterbacking regarding the LEO, VT Admin, on how they handled the earlier killings. I'm not trying to defend them, but I think their train of thought was this was a domestic situation concerning two individuals (girlfriend and boyfriend) with and innocent bystander coming to the aid of the girlfriend. My thought is that they were thinking of previous incidents such as this and the perpetrator normally tries to get as far away as they possible can from the incident or remains at the scene possible seeking death by LEO. To think that this person (not knowing who the person was at that time) would leave the immediate area and stick around to commit more homicides doesn't fit any MO's in the past.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Talon]

I know we are all saddened but this tragedy, but I don't think blame should be placed until all the facts are in. From what I've heard, it started out as a domestic incident, and the camups and local police were told the the gunman had fled the campus. I'm sure in the future things will be dealt with differently, but you can't cover all scenarios, just the ones that are more likely to happen. Unfortunately this will be a learning experience for law enforcement for the future.

[greglyon]

In America we do not act to prevent problems.  We are however well known for our reaction  in trying to solve the nation's problems.   Following 911 I told my wife we were going to join the ACLU in anticipation of a major reaction that would seriously curtail our rights and liberties. The Patriot Act is what followed.  If you object to your phone being tapped or the feds examining the books you check out of the library, your branded as unpatriotic.

I am not into guns but if I were, I'd be concerned about a big reaction via new gun control legislation.      The NRA and ACLU may be your friends. 

[Twolanerider]

Just seeing this story.  Unfortunately not incomprehensible.  But sad nonetheless.  Terribly terribly sad.  Whether it be the deranged individual that went to a Scottish school with (completely legal) hunting weapons, the incredibly angry and paranoid that take fuel and fertilizer to public buildings or the certifiable that climb towers with rifles no one is ever absolutely safe from determined madmen.  The more open is a society the more that is so. 

After Columbine and now Virginia Tech and the too many other such mass attacks one has to begin to wonder about the tactics of response.  Partly out of human nature, partly out of fear, partly out of reason it's inculcated in everyone from an early age not to challenge in hot situations.  You'll be better off; so we're told.

One has to wonder how many might have perished if several from the first classroom had charged this guy.  Not given him the opportunity to continue.  I know, I know, it's only an arm chair quarterback reaction.  It's too much to ask a group of unarmed civilians to do a fool's charge against an armed psychotic.  Even the people on United 93 had to have time to think about it and work up to the act.  But reaction rather than free rein....  You can't help but wonder.

[SPIDERMAN]

BB,
Not to argue or disagree w/your thoughts/feelings. There has been a lot of armchair quarterbacking regarding the LEO, VT Admin, on how they handled the earlier killings. I'm not trying to defend them, but I think their train of thought was this was a domestic situation concerning two individuals (girlfriend and boyfriend) with and innocent bystander coming to the aid of the girlfriend. My thought is that they were thinking of previous incidents such as this and the perpetrator normally tries to get as far away as they possible can from the incident or remains at the scene possible seeking death by LEO. To think that this person (not knowing who the person was at that time) would leave the immediate area and stick around to commit more homicides doesn't fit any MO's in the past.

 
Ride Safe,


Fired00d
 

Gary,
       If we agree to disagree then we have a discussion. If we accept everything on face value we have nothing. Ever since Kent State, I have had a deep seated distrust of authority in all forms. I suspect I will take that to my grave.

B B

[Fired00d]

Gary,
       If we agree to disagree then we have a discussion. If we accept everything on face value we have nothing. Ever since Kent State, I have had a deep seated distrust of authority in all forms. I suspect I will take that to my grave.

B B

I can respect that and probably one time in my life felt the same. I grew up in the hood, in a small city in the south, and I was pretty much an adult before there was a black person on the police force. For much of my life I had a distrust of authority, however now from being in public safety I have a different view. I'm not going to say that "authority" is perfect, fair, or even make the right decisions all the time, but from being around them and seeing how they operate I have a better understanding now.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Ceej]

Lots of folks after LE and the schools heads for this one along with gun owners rights, understandably. I would argue lawyers are the problem. Turns out this guy was a nutcase, extremely disturbed, and school counslers and mental health officials knew it, but he is an adult and they feared taking any proactive action would invite the likes of the ACLU. As for school officials and LEO, I assume the school defers to LEO, who correctly saw the first incident as a domestic violence event. They took hours to carry out the initial assessment and track down of a "Suspect" (wrong guy) because they probably were watching every step, very very closely, for fear of a defense lawyer getting someone off on a technicality. The school failed to make a big deal of it, but then LE thought it was a domestic violence issue, if you were them you probably would too - it was - and unfortunately its common.  Yet it is not likely that the suspect would return to campus to committ a mass murder. I would almost say the two events should be looked at as two seperate events. As for locking the school down, I live in a town of 26,000 people - the size of this campus, you couldn't shut my town down if there were a shooting. I am torn on this, I listened to radio coverage all day while on the road and feel like a wreck, ready to ball as I watch the pics of these kids tonite. I would say pass a gun control law tommorrow - if I thought it would do anything.  This is a mental illness issue regarding the killer. It is a communication issue regarding LEO and the school, and all schools will now have a psycho alarm alongside the tornado alarm.

[oldwarrior]

Let me say that I am totally shocked by this and my prayers go out to the family's, a terrible...terrible tragedy.
I worry about my Daughter in Florida, and think of her everyday.
It strikes a bit home because my wife (she is very upset) is South Korean and it appears that the shooter was also South Korean, could this happen in South Korea..no..why because it's darn near impossible to own a gun there.
Over there it's feet and fists and the occasional knife, but if you're intent on taking someones life you don't need a gun to do it, the gun just makes it easier.
So it boils down to the availably of guns here in this country no matter who you are, don't get me wrong I own more guns than I need, actually most are Antiques because it is a side hobby.

The gun debate will more than likely arise again and possibly some laws will be passed, but laws to stop resident Aliens from owning guns is obviously not the answer.
Do I know the answer....Absolutely not.
Wish I were smart enough to figure it out.....maybe the answer is to ban all guns...but being a realist that will never fly in this country.

[Jbbrown73]

My thoughts on this as far as from the Gun Stand point is as follows. As long as you have laws that limit where you can have and carry firearms, Then this type of thing will continue (Example) NO FIREARMS allowed on any school Grounds. (makes for a un-fearing person shooting gallery) Had one person (teacher) or Student Could have returned fire then Death Toll might not have been as large.

9-11-2001 No Airline pilots where allowed to carry firearms (TODAY) They are allowed Because of the very fact that had they had them they would have had a fighting chance to save some lives and maybe the Twin Towers would still be here.

The Schools are for Victims that why they are easy targets!

These are my thoughts yours may be different, Things happen for a reason it's the only thing that can keep you sane, My prayers are with the family's.

 

You are spot on!!!!

[Jbbrown73]

I am not into guns but if I were, I'd be concerned about a big reaction via new gun control legislation.      The NRA and ACLU may be your friends. 


[/quote]

The NRA is absolutely our friends.  Without this organization the US would be a very different and scary place.

[ccr]

   It has been a rough couple of days.  The emails from our friends and our HOG family saying their daughter or son had survived, then the emails that some did not.  This is in our back yard and the entire community - extended and all - are hurting pretty bad.  Bad!   

[Ceej]

If any of you are near a funeral please check with the patriot guard riders and see if they will be attending as word is those psycho losers from a baptist church in Kansas are going to protest at some of the funerals, I've been to a few of the military funerals they attended and the patriot guard pretty much hides them from sight and keeps them from being heard. Free speech, fine - these people at these times is a hate crime if you ask me.

[mr_magoo]

This is very sad indeed,  thoughts and prayer go out to all the victims.  But why they give this guy anymore air time is just crazy in my mind.  My daughter how attends WSU had classes cancelled because someone wrote a note on the Bathroom wall the next day.

[RJ749]

This is very sad indeed,  thoughts and prayer go out to all the victims.  But why they give this guy anymore air time is just crazy in my mind.  My daughter how attends WSU had classes cancelled because someone wrote a note on the Bathroom wall the next day.

Sorry to hear of the incident in Pullman Magoo.  I agree that this gives far to much exposure to the killer.

I wish MSN would take his friggin' pic off the home page, in fact I'm changin' my home page right now.  http://www.google.com No content on this page.

Go Cougs