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[Jock]

[Striker]

Sounds to me like, "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time".  
Fact, in New York City, a few years ago there was a statistic that there were over 40k people killed in crimes involving guns.  During that same period, in the entire country of Japan, there was, get this, 1!
Why, because in Japan, if you commit a crime and a gun is involved, it is mandatory death penalty.  To be carried out within one year, and a maximum of one appeal.
Seems that they are on to something.
Australia, having similar laws, had 12 deaths from guns during that report.
Just had a 14 y/o walk up to a kid in his neighborhood out here,  and shoot him dead over a video game.  The kid that was killed was 12.  They are trying to determine how to try the kid that did the shooting.  It was his fathers gun, that was just kept in an unlocked drawer by the bed.  The father said it wouldn't make sense to have a gun that he couldn't get to if an intruder came in.  Now he whining about the neighbors giving him a hard time.
Life is rough ain't it. [smiley=thumbsdown.gif]  

[Twolanerider]

40k gun related deaths in NYC?  Where did those numbers come from Striker; and accumulated for what period of time?  I was doing a policy document for a campaign I was helping out on last fall.  The latest numbers then reported by the FBI were for 2002 and had something like 365 gun related deaths in NYC for  that calendar year with the large majority being in Brooklyn and the Bronx.  A decade earlier at closer to the height of gun related violence the number was somewhere around 1400 for the year.  Both terrible numbers of course.  But 40,000 in the City doesn't even come close to passing the sniff test unless you're talking about something like the entire period from 1980 to 1995.  Then it might be at least getting in the ball park.

Japan actually has 17 offences on the books that allow capital punishment.  But it's usually imposed only for murders; especially murders during robberies or abductions.  It's also very specifically used in almost any homicide involving an explosive.  

The Japanese public usually polls in at somewhere around 3.5 or 4 to 1 in favor of capital punishment.  The Japanese also still perform capital punishment by hanging   [smiley=hanged.gif] .

I think they did two last year but four to six a year isn't uncommon.  Those executions are not in any way public.  The specific dates aren't pre-announced and they're commonly done when the Diet is not in session (so the opposition legislators aren't  given anything to make noise about).  Even after someone is hanged the Justice Ministry only announces that an execution has taken place but doesn't specifically say who was hanged or exactly when it happened.

The Japanse also don't have the speedy justice that seems suggested.  Their death row inmates can sit for years just as those in US Federal and state prisons do.  In the early 1990s Japan had a bit of a hiatus in its execution practice that specifically came after a half dozen or so cases had cropped up during the last half of the 80s wherein the convicted were proved innocent only after having been trying to prove their cases while spending years and years (in a couple cases as long as 26 or 27 years) on their death row.

Australia did away with it's death penalty back in about 1984 or 85; at least on the Federal level.  The law banning executions by the Federal government did allow the individual states to put it back on the books.  But I don't remember any of them having done so.  Japan and the US are the only "Western Industrial" powers that still in practice exercise the death penalty.

[SERYDER]

I'm thinkin any man that wants to see a bunch of grown men running around in that much pink underwear.......Ol' sherriff Joe has to be a frustrated, latent homosexual.  I'm not judging.......I'm just sayin............be afraid......be very afraid. [smiley=nervous.gif]

I heard a number of years ago, the sherrif had all of the county issued under-garments throughout the jail system "dyed" pink to slow down the rampant theft of these items from the various facilities.

[Striker]

I stand corrected, it was in the U.S.  When we were in Australia in '87, the head constable in Sydney,  was the one that was touting the fact that they have virtually no shooting deaths related to crime.

[Striker]

2lane, I am not sure where you got your info on who still has the death penalty, but according to Amnesty International, "over half the countries of the world still have a death penalty in place".  Granted, many have not used it for years, but that is no different than states here that have it, but don't use it.
I don't know what the use of owning an AK 47, or other assault weapon is, but the last job in the world I would want is being a cop in this country.  We give em grief when they catch us speeding, but want to know where the heck they are when we need em.
"at least 41 of the 211 law enforcement officers slain in the line of duty between January 1, 1998, and December 31, 2001, were killed with assault weapons." Quoted from Washington DC press statement, 2002.
It really doesn't matter the numbers, we are in fact a violent nation, with overzealous attorneys, and a penal system that is understaffed and over crowded.
The solution is not more jails, but get to the kids and pay attention to their problems.  Hell, if I ever acted toward an adult like the kids today tend to, I would have been whipped by the adult I disrespected and my old man when I got home from the whipping.
Today a kid can file "child abuse" charges against parents for a spanking, or in one case for being confined to their room!  JMHO
Don't want to start a wildfire here.  But my wife and I diciplined our kids when needed, and taught them repect, they aren't perfect, but they are a productive part of society.  BTW, we didn't always have the way of life we have today, and the kids went without many times, but they also started working at 16, and they all were told that they had to get a way to get to college if they wanted to go, and they did.  We are proud of them.

Anyone that ignores that we have become a dangerous society, needs to take their head out of the sand and recognize there is a segment of our population that believes that they have a right to what we have worked for, and if we resist, or even if we don't we can eat a bullet.
Other than overcrowding, what is the excuse for someone committing multiple felonies before they face some form of punishment.  I agree with Ol' Joe.  Maybe it is time we stop doing what is politically correct, and more of what is warranted.

[Twolanerider]

2lane, I am not sure where you got your info on who still has the death penalty, but according to Amnesty International, "over half the countries of the world still have a death penalty in place".

Striker it's true that many countries still have capital punishment on the books.  It is just under 60%.  The last time I looked was in 04.  At that time 81 countries had completely eliminated the death penalty.  Since there are close to 200 recognized governments on the world anymore that makes the math pretty easy.  

Of those that have it on the books many practice it; even if only rarely.  Others that don't have it on the books still occasionally "lose" a prisoner that has in fact been executed.  But none of that has any relevance to what I'd written.  

What I wrote was from the first world bloc of "western industrialized" nations there are only two that maintain capital punishment.  Those are Japan and the United States.  And that's true.  The rest of the countries with capital crimes still on the books are from other parts of the world.  

Please also note that I never said anything that either supports or speaks against capital punishment.  I simply never stated an opinion one way or the other.  Was merely pointing out more current data in relation to some numbers that had been posted so others wouldn't unnecessarily take things that were in error as gospel and pass them on.

[Striker]

Point well taken, just like to get things stirred up now and then.

[Twolanerider]

just like to get things stirred up now and then.

Well you're a BAD BOY !!   [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]

(I, of course, am completely innocent and would never do any such thing.)

[Striker]

 [smiley=lipsrsealed2.gif]

[Coolbreeze]

Oddly enough, the last data that I looked at on the fed crime-rate web-site,  showed that Australia's violent gun crime rate actually went up lately, (minimally), and that was about the same time that they outlawed guns.  It's interesting that once an item is outlawed, only the outlaws will have that item.  And if that item is what you need to defend yourself from the outlaws, (since law enforcement is actually only there to arrest you for committing a crime, not to stop a crime), you are in sad shape at that point...

[Striker]

Except that over 2/3rds of the gun deaths in the US are during the commission of a crime.  Of the remaining 1/3rd, 42% are accidental shootings, that means that only a small percentage is left for self defense.  I don't agree with gun control, the laws are on the books to prosecute the illegal uses, we just need to start enforcing those laws.

[Coolbreeze]

Except that over 2/3rds of the gun deaths in the US are during the commission of a crime.  Of the remaining 1/3rd, 42% are accidental shootings, that means that only a small percentage is left for self defense.  I don't agree with gun control, the laws are on the books to prosecute the illegal uses, we just need to start enforcing those laws.

Hear ye Hear ye....   Being an officer of the court, and a full time carry kinda guy, over the years, I have come to the decision that   "Every body that has a drivers license, must also carry a weapon, and be ready, trained, and prepared to enforce the laws of the land at all times...".  I know I know, we'd see a lot of collatoral damage for a while, but it would eventually weed out the slow, the dumb, and the lawless...  In the end, there are more of the good guys than there are bad guys.  We just need to even up the playing field a bit...   [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

[BLM777]

Coolbreeze....I think your point may be proven in the Atlanta suburb or Kennesaw, GA.  In Kennesaw, they passed an ordinance a few years making it a misdemeanor to NOT HAVE A FIREARM  IN YOUR HOME if you were legally able to.  I have a daughter that lives there and it is unbelievable how uneffected they are by the close proximity of Atlanta, one of the most crime ridden, dangerous towns in the US.  No doubt, it works when you put enough heat on the bad guys to encourage them to think along the lines of "look for easy pickins' elsewhere".

[Coolbreeze]

I had heard about that a few years ago in conversation but never followed up to see how it turned out.  How heartwarming to hear that law enforcement by the citizens actually still works... [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]