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CVO Technical => Twin Cam => Topic started by: opee1 on April 07, 2005, 12:57:57 PM
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I recently purchased my SEEG last week and after getting a few hundred miles on her did a fourth gear role to see what she had. Sadly, not much more than the stock 88" RK running next to me. I guess we have the EPA to thank for that. Now I get to put thousands dollars into the motor to release the power of the stroker motor that I thought I would atleast be getting a taste of at the stock settings. Boooo Hoooo!!! Apparently the SE heads that come stock are not really SE heads at all. They are low compression heads with SE written on them and the pistons are nothing to write home about either. The bike doesn't even have the 9:1 compression ratio that HD claims and the "SE heads" on the bike can't handle any more compression per HD. I wasn't expecting to have to rebuild the motor to have a fast bagger. Hopefully I can save other buyers the heartache that I'm going through right now.
Opee
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I recently purchased my SEEG last week and after getting a few hundred miles on her did a fourth gear role to see what she had. Sadly, not much more than the stock 88" RK running next to me. I guess we have the EPA to thank for that. Now I get to put thousands dollars into the motor to release the power of the stroker motor that I thought I would atleast be getting a taste of at the stock settings. Boooo Hoooo!!! Apparently the SE heads that come stock are not really SE heads at all. They are low compression heads with SE written on them and the pistons are nothing to write home about either. The bike doesn't even have the 9:1 compression ratio that HD claims and the "SE heads" on the bike can't handle any more compression per HD. I wasn't expecting to have to rebuild the motor to have a fast bagger. Hopefully I can save other buyers the heartache that I'm going through right now.
Opee
Opee,
Get off the buyer's remorse. You have not broken the bike in yet. You do not have to rebuild the motor to have a significantly faster bagger than a TC88. You are being mislead about the heads and the compression ratio. What are you expecting from your SEEG? How can we help get you there? Take a chill pill for your heart and we will do the best that we can to make your projections a reality.
Mike
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I recently purchased my SEEG last week and after getting a few hundred miles on her did a fourth gear role to see what she had. Sadly, not much more than the stock 88" RK running next to me. I guess we have the EPA to thank for that. Now I get to put thousands dollars into the motor to release the power of the stroker motor that I thought I would atleast be getting a taste of at the stock settings. Boooo Hoooo!!! Apparently the SE heads that come stock are not really SE heads at all. They are low compression heads with SE written on them and the pistons are nothing to write home about either. The bike doesn't even have the 9:1 compression ratio that HD claims and the "SE heads" on the bike can't handle any more compression per HD. I wasn't expecting to have to rebuild the motor to have a fast bagger. Hopefully I can save other buyers the heartache that I'm going through right now.
Opee
If you want a fast Bagger you need to talk to Hubbard. [smiley=thumbup.gif]
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I recently purchased my SEEG last week and after getting a few hundred miles on her did a fourth gear role to see what she had. Sadly, not much more than the stock 88" RK running next to me. I guess we have the EPA to thank for that. Now I get to put thousands dollars into the motor to release the power of the stroker motor that I thought I would atleast be getting a taste of at the stock settings. Boooo Hoooo!!! Apparently the SE heads that come stock are not really SE heads at all. They are low compression heads with SE written on them and the pistons are nothing to write home about either. The bike doesn't even have the 9:1 compression ratio that HD claims and the "SE heads" on the bike can't handle any more compression per HD. I wasn't expecting to have to rebuild the motor to have a fast bagger. Hopefully I can save other buyers the heartache that I'm going through right now.
Opee
did you pipe and change the air cleaner?
out of the hole, you are right it is not much faster. but once you hit 3rd gear, you should blow him away.
a stock tc88 has 70-75#'s of torque if you are lucky. your seeg should have somewhere between 90-100.
the heads are not like the se-performance heads, but they are better than the stock 88.
also on his bike the torque craps out much earlier than yours.
if you both downshifted to 3rd, i guarantee you would have smoked him.
you max torque comes in around 4000 rpm's. his is already dropping fast at that point.
your right about the roll on. but that is not an acurate way to rate the difference between the 2 motors.
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3 things to do...Pipes, Power Commander or Race Tuner, and Stage 1 air cleaner. These motors are starving for air and chocked on the exhaust due to EPA requirements. For about $1,200 to 1,400 you will be pleasantly suprised in the difference. I would suggest the Freedom package which is about $1,400.00. Check out this thread:http://flhrsei.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=eg_gen;action=display;num=1099534567.
Don't loose hope.
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I guess my point was that I thought I was buying a fast bagger. I don't think the motor lossening up is going to make much of a difference in the perfomance of the motor. Power starts a nose dive @ 3800 RPM and isn't much to speak of getting there. I might just be spoiled with the 95" motor on my Ultra but for 30k, I didn't think I was asking for much...just a fast bagger from the factory. Please don't get me wrong, I love the bike, just dissappointed in the power.
Opee
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MMMMMM...... My 04 Pumpkin is stock except for the SE AC kit, SE download, and 2pc SE slip ons.
I run away from my TC88 and evo bagger friends. And the guy with a 95
[smiley=nixweiss.gif]
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I guess my point was that I thought I was buying a fast bagger. I don't think the motor lossening up is going to make much of a difference in the perfomance of the motor. Power starts a nose dive @ 3800 RPM and isn't much to speak of getting there. I might just be spoiled with the 95" motor on my Ultra but for 30k, I didn't think I was asking for much...just a fast bagger from the factory. Please don't get me wrong, I love the bike, just dissappointed in the power.
Opee
my bike will smoke any 95" and it has already smoked a couple of those texas choppers with the 107.
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I guess my point was that I thought I was buying a fast bagger. I don't think the motor lossening up is going to make much of a difference in the perfomance of the motor. Power starts a nose dive @ 3800 RPM and isn't much to speak of getting there. I might just be spoiled with the 95" motor on my Ultra but for 30k, I didn't think I was asking for much...just a fast bagger from the factory. Please don't get me wrong, I love the bike, just dissappointed in the power.
Opee
Opee,
You did buy a fast bagger. Let's see if we can't help you tweak this bike and get you rollin right.
I do not believe that your bike is set up correctly if your power is nosediving at 3800rpm. I think that it should pull to the revlimiter of 5800rpm. Get about 1000-1500 miles on it and dyno it. You will have a lot to work with here and get moving the way that you want to.
Mike.
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MMMMMM...... My 04 Pumpkin is stock except for the SE AC kit, SE download, and 2pc SE slip ons.
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Yeah, 'er 'uh, opee1,
Speed cost MONEY! How fast do you want to Go? [smiley=nixweiss.gif] Cubic Inches and Compression. [smiley=thumbsup.gif] I think you already know the drill! Later--HUBBARD
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Hub,
Did I mention that I'll be buying a new Hayabusa on the way down to Maggie Holla'?
I'm going to use it tow my SEEG down (which I'll be using as a trailer)... and beat yar 120 [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif] [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif] [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif] [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif] [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif] [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]
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Yeah, 'er 'uh, opee1,
Speed cost MONEY! How fast do you want to Go? [smiley=nixweiss.gif] Cubic Inches and Compression. [smiley=thumbsup.gif] I think you already know the drill! Later--HUBBARD
Opee, "Tater Hubbard" is right! Speed does cost, just hope you don't spend 60 big ones like "Tater".
And he still can't outrun his buddy Otis's 95" CVO.
But Opee what I would like to know is, what is your definition of a fast bagger?
Give me something to compare to.
Faster than a Gold Wing 6?
Faster than a 1200BMW?
Help me understand where you are trying to be?
[smiley=nixweiss.gif]
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hd03 is exactly right.
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hd03 is exactly right.
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oooooooooops.... please have the girls at the Hooters in Ashville spank me
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hd03 is exactly right.
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I guess the definition of fast is a relative one. I imamgine my basis for comparison is my 00' Ultra that I just built the end of last year. It runs circles around my SEEG.
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I guess the definition of fast is a relative one. I imamgine my basis for comparison is my 00' Ultra that I just built the end of last year. It runs circles around my SEEG.
Opee,
When you get comparative dyno sheets, you will have the baseline for tweaking the SEEG. All of H-D's motorcycles, including the CVOs are platforms from which you begin personalization and improvements necessary to make you comfortable with what you own. Give this one half a chance and you will find that your investment in it will be well worth it. You own or have owned many different bikes and the general story with each has been the same.
Mike
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I appreciate everyone's help on this site. I don't mean to whine about how slow my bike is cuz it is a very nice bike. Out of the 8 Harley's I've bought over the last nine years, I think my expectations were just a little toooo high on my SEEG. It was a lot easier when you knew the bike was gonna be slow and you had to modify it to make it yours. I thought maybe this time I could be happy with just exhaust and a breather.....silly me lol. I've got the HD dealer pricing high compression pistons with cc heads, thunder header, race tuner, breather, s & s gear drive with 585 cams, and compression releases. I can't wait to here what this bills gonna be but I'll keep you posted. I just can't help but laugh.
Opee [smiley=laugh.gif]
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MMMMMM...... My 04 Pumpkin is stock except for the SE AC kit, SE download, and 2pc SE slip ons.
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Opee,
When you get comparative dyno sheets, you will have the baseline for tweaking the SEEG.
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Interesting point Mike...........but you could have CC'd
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Opee1,
With the work you are considering I would look at some work in the Head Department. The combustion chamber in the SE 103" heads are huge.
I had my heads reworked by Charlie at SBC in Phoenix c/w S&S 585 cam, stock pistons etc and the bike really hauls. Will post dyno results when go back to Phoenix end of April.
geezerglide
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C'mom JC,
Just give ol' HUBBARD a VIN number to order a set of CVO tins for ol' Maudie. That ol' girl would dance in those new shoes.
Maybe instead of an SEEG Hubbard has been secretly working on a jet bike? Could be.... This might be the evidence [smiley=nervous.gif]
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Please note.
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regarding post in other thread SBTOF about being on hands and knees.... this is damn funny and guess not every bike needs a concho to be recognized
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Yeah, 'er 'uh, Twolane!
Man, you and hd2003, DJW and JCZ have had a field on Ol' Hubbard, ain't ya'? [smiley=1syellow1.gif] [smiley=1syellow1.gif] I step out to TCB, and the chit gets deep! You clowns crack me up!! [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif] You'll never be able to pass that picture of Chip off as me, either, Twolane! I'm gonna' get me a SEEG, JCZ! [smiley=thumbsup.gif] I just don't know when! They just look so small, compared to my Ultra. Why is that? Ol' DavidB told ya'll right! That plastic bike can't make any sparks fly off the floorboards, Hell, it ain't even got any floorboards, DJW! [smiley=thumbsdown.gif] When you see ME on one of those, the Weather Channel will have just announced that Hell just froze over! [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] I really Love this Site!! Later--HUBBARD
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Yeah, 'er 'uh, Twolane!
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I appreciate everyone's help on this site. I don't mean to whine about how slow my bike is cuz it is a very nice bike. Out of the 8 Harley's I've bought over the last nine years, I think my expectations were just a little toooo high on my SEEG. It was a lot easier when you knew the bike was gonna be slow and you had to modify it to make it yours. I thought maybe this time I could be happy with just exhaust and a breather.....silly me lol. I've got the HD dealer pricing high compression pistons with cc heads, thunder header, race tuner, breather, s & s gear drive with 585 cams, and compression releases. I can't wait to here what this bills gonna be but I'll keep you posted. I just can't help but laugh.
Opee [smiley=laugh.gif]
Just for comparison, check the dyno sheets...stock SEEGs are about 80+ hp. with just a stage 1 air cleaner, a good 2 into 1 exhaust (I used V&H Pro pipe) and the race tuner, mine has 100 hp/103 tq..not bad! It was "dyno-tuned" and it pulls strong to 6000 rpm.
Not a bad start...the engine came alive...depends on how fast you want to go...good luck and keep us posted [smiley=beerchug.gif]
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my bike will smoke any 95" and it has already smoked a couple of those texas choppers with the 107.
I HAVE A 95 GOING TO THE VALLEY OTIS [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
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I HAVE A 95 GOING TO THE VALLEY OTIS[smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
Mmmmmmm! Interesting! A dropped guantlet? Not just all pumped up chest and puffed up wings, no an actual drop.
Kng103, I don't know what the criminal work market is like in the Bronx at the end of April, but sounds like Otis has just told you to put your play money up and meet In The Valley (ITV). So to speak, I mean, I am kinda scared of criminals, Otis and Hubbard, so..... Oops, I think I am stepping aside. Stage left, here I come....... [smiley=znothingfunny.gif]
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I HAVE A 95 GOING TO THE VALLEY
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I don't care who wins..... I just wanna here those big twins rappin' and brappin' upshiftin' and down shiftin' shakin the ground underneath the pavement they're poundin'. Now there's one of God's wonderful symphonies......echoin' that sweet refrain.
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Mmmmmmm! Interesting!
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be safe in the valley people.
Thank you King for the good advice.....reo
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Yeah, 'er 'uh, Mrs.WE,
You're afraid of criminals? [smiley=nixweiss.gif] I thought I read somewhere that you worked for the IRS!! [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]
I just could'nt let that get by me!! Later--HUBBARD
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Yeah, 'er 'uh, kng103!
I ain't hard to find! Come on down here and get you some of it! Me and OTIS live for that kind of chit! Just remember, though, we don't accept "Play Money", south of the Mason/Dixon Line!! Later--HUBBARD
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here's the key, kng103
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Yeah, 'er 'uh, Mrs.WE,
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I recently purchased my SEEG last week and after getting a few hundred miles on her did a fourth gear role to see what she had. Sadly, not much more than the stock 88" RK running next to me. I guess we have the EPA to thank for that. Now I get to put thousands dollars into the motor to release the power of the stroker motor that I thought I would atleast be getting a taste of at the stock settings. Boooo Hoooo!!! Apparently the SE heads that come stock are not really SE heads at all. They are low compression heads with SE written on them and the pistons are nothing to write home about either. The bike doesn't even have the 9:1 compression ratio that HD claims and the "SE heads" on the bike can't handle any more compression per HD. I wasn't expecting to have to rebuild the motor to have a fast bagger. Hopefully I can save other buyers the heartache that I'm going through right now.
Opee
Installed SE pipes, 6500 RPM chip, K&M filter, HD download. It sputtered, it popped, it missed...what??? So the dealer installed a TFI Techlusion. Didn't have the Power Commander like everyone else has. Still didn't help. Took her home. Snow melted and started to ride. Still a miss, sputter and pop. So talked to a few Harley D shops and did the following:
1). added Amsoil fuel injector cleaner for 3 full tanks.
2). tightened several pipe clamps and manifold bolts on exhaust that were loose.
3). Set TFI settings to 1, 2 3 and 6:30 o'clock on their settings.
4). No dyno closeby, so travelled a closeby highway that was 10 miles of strong hills up and down. Ran in 5th at 4000 rpm and made her work up the hills and coasted hard down for the whole time. This set the rings and now she's a different ride. Now she doesn't bark, from idle to 4000 rpm, she's a steady pull. Plugs are burning clean and light tan. on cruise at 70 MPH, she's at 2600 rpm pulling big hills with little difficulty.
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Hey KNG
I'm with you bud!
I will PLAY with "Tater Hubbard", but Otis is a different story.
Those 95" motors are tough.
Everytime I go riding I get dusted by one.
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got a bud that has the 103 for 2005 already changed pipes and air cleaner the question is which would be better the race tech unit or the pcIII r.
glenn
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Welcome to the site...do a search on race tuner and another on power commander. This has been discussed at length...personal preference...the techs at my H-D dealer prefer the race tuner. Good luck [smiley=beerchug.gif]
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BadAss2,
What are your TFI settings again? I'm using a DFO (states version of the TFI) and I'm at the following:
#1 Idle - 1:30 position
#2 Accelerator pump - 4:00 position
#3 Main - 2:30 position
#4 RPM (for kick-in of the main) - 5:00 position
Just wondering if this is close to what you are running. Keep in mind that I am using the 85 hp and up model of the DFO which has more aggressive adjustments for higher horsepower machines. This was per the advise of Techlusion.
TB
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I recently purchased my SEEG last week and after getting a few hundred miles on her did a fourth gear role to see what she had. Sadly, not much more than the stock 88" RK running next to me. I guess we have the EPA to thank for that. Now I get to put thousands dollars into the motor to release the power of the stroker motor that I thought I would atleast be getting a taste of at the stock settings. Boooo Hoooo!!! Apparently the SE heads that come stock are not really SE heads at all. They are low compression heads with SE written on them and the pistons are nothing to write home about either. The bike doesn't even have the 9:1 compression ratio that HD claims and the "SE heads" on the bike can't handle any more compression per HD. I wasn't expecting to have to rebuild the motor to have a fast bagger. Hopefully I can save other buyers the heartache that I'm going through right now.
Opee
To say not much more than a stock 88 I would have to think that their is something wrong with your scooter!!! I just came back from a vegas vacation where I rented a stock '05 electric glide classic, riding down I95 South heading towards Laughlin (long long starightaway) barely made it to 100 mph with the wind to my back and it took forever to get their, now my 103 has no problem gettin' over 110 very quickly and it will bury the needle!!!
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Opee, oh Opee where are you........and where is your SEEG? I heard you have your new SEEG in the shop since the complete and total failure of your entire electrical system. Maybe that had something due with your lack of power mentioned in your initial post starting this thread. [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
Please update for all. Also how much will it cost us to keep up with you once you get it back with the slight upgrade (Jims 120 kit ???) that the local rumor mill has you installing........
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I haven't got the bike back yet. Supposed to pick it up this Thursday. Gonna put a couple of hundred miles on her and then off to the dyno. I'll keep you posted, and if I can figure out how to post the dyno sheets on here I'll be sure and do so. Keep your fingers crossed.
Opee
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What's entire set up you choose? Did you go with the Thunderheader?
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FATBOY Zippers has some great engine packages, they are doing a lot of R&D on the 107's and 120's right now. They also don't push them to the limit. So you know it will live on the street. Give them a call 301-261-2311. No I don't work there or own the place just been dealing with them for about 15 years off and on. Oh and ask for ext 107 his name is Bill. NO NO NO he is not my brother just someone that can help you. They don't install anymore just sell the goodies. Stay Safe
THE DAWG
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Opee, oh Opee where are you........and where is your SEEG? I heard you have your new SEEG in the shop since the complete and total failure of your entire electrical system. Maybe that had something due with your lack of power mentioned in your initial post starting this thread. [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
Please update for all. Also how much will it cost us to keep up with you once you get it back with the slight upgrade (Jims 120 kit ???) that the local rumor mill has you installing........
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HD as we say up here in the mountains of western Maryland. A good tuned 120 CAN WALK THE DAWG!!!!!!!
I'll bet that would be one hell of a ride on a SEEG! Saty Safe.
THE DAWG
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DC
I have had several conversations with Pete Stewert from Zipper's regarding my own goals and objectives for performance from my new SEEG. Looks like a package consisting of 50mm throttle body, SE breather kit, ThunderHeart ECM and a set of Rhineharts should do the trick for me. I'm looking for around 100hp and 100tq with the power being there strong from say 2000 to 4500 rpm since that's where I ride 99% of the time. Do you think this is a good way for me to go?
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DC
I have had several conversations with Pete Stewert from Zipper's regarding my own goals and objectives for performance from my new SEEG. Looks like a package consisting of 50mm throttle body, SE breather kit, ThunderHeart ECM and a set of Rhineharts should do the trick for me. I'm looking for
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FATBOY You will be very close to your numbers. I personally can't tell anyone on here how the bike will act with the throttle body. It and the thunderheart ECM are still setting in the box in the shop. I am going to get them installed this week if not today! I deal with bill Lamb at ext 107 over there he has been there forever.
I do think your torque numbers will be higher. Right now with out the throttle body they are at 108. You will love the wake up call the 103 will get with just a few minor changes.Stay safe
THE DAWG
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FATBOY sorry I missed your post about my exhaust. Yes I run a thunderheader and I love it. I had a thunderheader with a falsie on it for a while but just switched to a single thunderheader. It took a little time to get used to but it cleans the area up between the motor and trannie on the bike and also ahows off my chrome starter.
The guys at Zippers really like the D&D fat cat. They have a couple of other exhaust systems set up for the Thunderheart. Check out www.zippersperformance.com click on new products then click on thunderheart ECM it will tell what downloads they have right now and explain the unit. Hope this helps.Stay safe
THE DAWG