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[Twolanerider]

Have recently completed some engine work on my old Road Glide.  It's got a bit more pep than it used to.  Love the way it runs and it sounds great.  Today was the warmest day it has seen so far but was still only 80 degrees.  Oil temp climbed to 230 and stayed there.

That's not enough to chase me to buying more parts yet.  Summer weather might though.  So doing the homework ahead just in case.

I've got a stock version of an oil cooler that was used on the SEEGs or the 03 Road King.  Thermostatic housing and small-ish tank.  Might do one of the fan assisted units though if I decide to do anything.  I've got no experience with any of the currently available options though.  Jagg, Ultra-Cool, something else?  Comments good, bad, or otherwise?

Thanks

[HD Street Performance]

Cooling the heads with fans is a better approach, oil temps stay lower as well.

[Twolanerider]

Cooling the heads with fans is a better approach, oil temps stay lower as well.

No argument as to effectiveness.  Truly none.  This is a personal view of appearance/aesthetic consideration.  I didn't just hang dark red powder coated and diamond cut cylinders and heads on the bike to follow that up with funky looking wing mounted chrome plated counter rotating overly large nipples whirring away on the side of the engine. 

They may work wonderfully.  But not on my bike.  I'd kiss a moderator before mounting any of those things I've ever seen.   

[VaEagle]

Form over function kind of thing huh?

[Unbalanced]

Don
These are the ones I am looking at:

Ultra Cool - https://www.ultracoolfl.com/
Jag - https://jagg.com/
Buds - https://harleyoilcoolers.com/

Not a fan of stuff under the bike, but haven’t completely ruled out the Bud system.    The ultra cool has come highly recommended.    Have owned the 10 row Jagg just no empirical data to say how good it did.   Tuner friend in Texas recommends the Jagg due to volume of oil flow not being restricted like Harley, and you get more rows for cooling.    May try one first on the roadking, as it has no oil cooler.   On the 15 was where I had considered the Bud to keep the regulator area clean.   May also consider a plus one oil pan in conjunction but it has a hefty price tag.

I know I gotta do something I don’t like the temps I am seeing while tuning the bikes and it’s not summer here yet.

[iski]

Form over function kind of thing huh?

Yes.  And more cowbell.

[Twolanerider]

Form over function kind of thing huh?

EXACTLY !!   


Sometimes you just have to go that way...... 

[Twolanerider]

Don
These are the ones I am looking at:

Ultra Cool - https://www.ultracoolfl.com/
Jag - https://jagg.com/
Buds - https://harleyoilcoolers.com/

Not a fan of stuff under the bike, but haven’t completely ruled out the Bud system.    The ultra cool has come highly recommended.    Have owned the 10 row Jagg just no empirical data to say how good it did.   Tuner friend in Texas recommends the Jagg due to volume of oil flow not being restricted like Harley, and you get more rows for cooling.    May try one first on the roadking, as it has no oil cooler.   On the 15 was where I had considered the Bud to keep the regulator area clean.   May also consider a plus one oil pan in conjunction but it has a hefty price tag.

I know I gotta do something I don’t like the temps I am seeing while tuning the bikes and it’s not summer here yet.

I was looking at either the Jagg or the UltraCool Harry.  No personal experience but for reasons none other than that it gave me bad crawly feelings I did rule out the under bike Bud unit.  Looked like it would make oil changes more tedious, potentially interfere with the temp sending unit in the front of the oil pan, I didn't like the idea of all the reflectivity directly off the hot road surface and could close my eyes and too easily see debris damage.

Between the UltraCool and the Jagg unit, unless someone shares some hands on experience suggesting otherwise, I'm inclined right now toward the UltraCool unit.  Prefer the hard fittings on the lines as opposed to the hoses and hose clamps on the Jagg.  The UltraCool also mounts its temp sender on the filter adapter versus Jagg's having it in a brass T fitting (at least for my model bike).  Small stuff.  But it's enough to push a decision one way versus the other when other things regarding functionality are apparently relatively equal.

[TN]

I installed the jagg 10 row fan assisted oil cooler last year on my SERG. I didn’t use their thermostat control, hooked it up with a out of sight inline toggle switch. The rubber hose they supply is questionable too so I got some regular nylon braided fuel line along with fuel line clamps, all good there. I tried to use the HD oil filter adapter but gave in and used the supplied one because the oil lines run under the filter and was easier for oil filter changes. It took some doing but I’m happy with it now. I don’t have any quantitive data on how well it works because I did a few other mods for cooling while I was at it.

Would I do it again knowing what I know, a strong maybe.

The jagg also mounts a lil higher up compared to the OEM by not using the bolt on mount for the factory cooler.

Other cooling mods are baker 1.5+ oil pan and some mighty mite cooling fans. 

[bisounours]

In the same idea, for an FLHXSE2 '11 : Who have replaced the rubber Hose oil cooler ( # 62629-11 & # 62641-11) by stainless steel braided Hose oil cooler ?  Is it a kit for that ? Thanks

[danner55]

Ultra cool is the way to go! It's easy to install & the instructions are right on.
I like the led light that comes on when the fans are running.
I also went with the Flo oil filter system which is reusable. I did buy some xtra o rings.

[quicked]

I added the jagg 10 row cooler above the factory oil cooler with flat aluminum brackets and diamond engineering fasteners,that worked for my HOT high compression 124ci in my fltrse3

[HD Street Performance]

I can't comment on the coolers shown because I have not used them.
I am partial to Jagg however.

I haven't changed the stock oil cooler on my bike now. I just use head fans and in hot stop and go they do keep both the heads and the oil cooler. I used to see oil hit 260-270 and now it is never over 240°F. That's the plus side, the minus is all that heat ends up being blown right on you at slow speeds. I did use Wards 160° thermostat, not sure those are around any more nor are his fans. Wards fans look nice and are even granite. Too bad he got snuffed out by the competition.
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/outdoor_garage/wards-parts-werks-160-thermostat-install-2009-flht-t314.html

On my 2007 Streetglide I used an uptube mounted cooler, Jagg. I like the Jaggs because their core is made by Setrab /Susa, high quality plus has some design features others don't. Personally, and not sure anyone would be this AR, I like to use braze on AN adapters then use teflon lined steel braided -6 lines with steel swivel fittings.

I am not a fan of the FLO filters and variants but that is another discussion altogether.

[TN]

In the same idea, for an FLHXSE2 '11 : Who have replaced the rubber Hose oil cooler ( # 62629-11 & # 62641-11) by stainless steel braided Hose oil cooler ?  Is it a kit for that ? Thanks

I sourced some hose from local speed shop for specific application, used fuel line clamps. Don't remember the details right off.The OEM is molded and allows access to oil filter, I toyed with doing something using the HD oil filter adapter but chose the other route instead.

[Twolanerider]

I installed the jagg 10 row fan assisted oil cooler last year on my SERG. I didn’t use their thermostat control, hooked it up with a out of sight inline toggle switch. The rubber hose they supply is questionable too so I got some regular nylon braided fuel line along with fuel line clamps, all good there. I tried to use the HD oil filter adapter but gave in and used the supplied one because the oil lines run under the filter and was easier for oil filter changes. It took some doing but I’m happy with it now. I don’t have any quantitive data on how well it works because I did a few other mods for cooling while I was at it.

Would I do it again knowing what I know, a strong maybe.

The jagg also mounts a lil higher up compared to the OEM by not using the bolt on mount for the factory cooler.

Other cooling mods are baker 1.5+ oil pan and some mighty mite cooling fans. 

I'd not thought of just putting the thing on a switch Phil.  The oil temp gauge is right in front of me so it's not like it would be a mystery when to use it.

I also do like the filter position with the Jagg adapter.  Looks like like you I'm not a fan of their line kits though.  But for the life of me I've still never bought in to the larger oil pans being a "cooling" device.  Thermodynamics don't work that way.  Would certainly make it take longer to get hot.  But the same larger mass and volume would then take longer to cool down too.  Plus, well, my oil pan is powder coated red  .

[Twolanerider]

In the same idea, for an FLHXSE2 '11 : Who have replaced the rubber Hose oil cooler ( # 62629-11 & # 62641-11) by stainless steel braided Hose oil cooler ?  Is it a kit for that ? Thanks

Jacques, I've had two friends do that.  Wasn't a kit.  Just some bulk stainless braided line packages that we had to cut to fit.  Cleaning those cut ends well enough to satisfy me is always a tedious task.  It's a good thing that's something I do very rarely or I'd be buying more tools.

[Twolanerider]

Ultra cool is the way to go! It's easy to install & the instructions are right on.
I like the led light that comes on when the fans are running.
I also went with the Flo oil filter system which is reusable. I did buy some xtra o rings.

I'd missed the fact of an activity light already with the UltraCool units.  That's the kind of thing I'm likely to try to find a neat way to add.  Like systems information.  Was good to know.  Thanks.

[Twolanerider]

I can't comment on the coolers shown because I have not used them.
I am partial to Jagg however.

I haven't changed the stock oil cooler on my bike now. I just use head fans and in hot stop and go they do keep both the heads and the oil cooler. I used to see oil hit 260-270 and now it is never over 240°F. That's the plus side, the minus is all that heat ends up being blown right on you at slow speeds. I did use Wards 160° thermostat, not sure those are around any more nor are his fans. Wards fans look nice and are even granite. Too bad he got snuffed out by the competition.
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/outdoor_garage/wards-parts-werks-160-thermostat-install-2009-flht-t314.html

On my 2007 Streetglide I used an uptube mounted cooler, Jagg. I like the Jaggs because their core is made by Setrab /Susa, high quality plus has some design features others don't. Personally, and not sure anyone would be this AR, I like to use braze on AN adapters then use teflon lined steel braided -6 lines with steel swivel fittings.

I am not a fan of the FLO filters and variants but that is another discussion altogether.

I do like the Jagg coolers.  Top notch tanks.  Have never had one of the UltraCool tanks in hand so can't make a comparison though.  Not a huge fan of the Jagg line kits so would likely end up doing something extra.  Probably much like the rabbit hole you went down.  That is something that appears different/better in the UltraCool product descriptions.

In your corner on the FLO filters.  They've got a place; track vehicles or other things with short service cycles.  Not my choice for extended service cycles and highway vehicles though.  Others may and do like them for a host of reasons.  Not my cup of oil though.  Plus, I'm lazy.  Filters are cheap.  Even good filters are cheap. Cleaning those things is more hassle than I want to deal with during a two beer oil change.

[bisounours]

I sourced some hose from local speed shop for specific application, used fuel line clamps. Don't remember the details right off.The OEM is molded and allows access to oil filter, I toyed with doing something using the HD oil filter adapter but chose the other route instead.

 

[bisounours]

Jacques, I've had two friends do that.  Wasn't a kit.  Just some bulk stainless braided line packages that we had to cut to fit.  Cleaning those cut ends well enough to satisfy me is always a tedious task.  It's a good thing that's something I do very rarely or I'd be buying more tools.

Thanks, Don !

[TN]

I'd not thought of just putting the thing on a switch Phil.  The oil temp gauge is right in front of me so it's not like it would be a mystery when to use it.

I also do like the filter position with the Jagg adapter.  Looks like like you I'm not a fan of their line kits though.  But for the life of me I've still never bought in to the larger oil pans being a "cooling" device.  Thermodynamics don't work that way.  Would certainly make it take longer to get hot.  But the same larger mass and volume would then take longer to cool down too.  Plus, well, my oil pan is powder coated red  .

With the HD oil pan I had to run the oil level at least 1/2 quart low to prevent heavy misting out the head breathers running the 110”, I upgraded to 117” so more heat is produced.  I’m just a country boy but do understand thermodynamics to a point and I concur about your statement, that being said Baker has a few improvements in design to address cooling, so I would pay a hefty sum for the product . I still run half a quart from full line with it.

 Baker did offer the granite finish to match my CVO, (now to get the black starter and throttle body that HD slaps on a granite CVO to match.)

Anyhow I do like the Baker +1.5 pan.
 

[porthole]

May also consider a plus one oil pan in conjunction but it has a hefty price tag.

I have a +1 on the 05.
Once the oil warms up  - it is warmed up and the pan does nothing to drop the temp.
It does seem to allow the oil to cool off quicker once stopped.

I did the pan mainly for the extra quart of oil and the the change in oil flow over stock. Also an integrated 'Straight 8' ride stabilizer kit at the time (which alos did not help much if any).

[hd-dude]

I have sold and installed several of the Jagg and Ultracool kits over years. Up until the past few years I would recommend the Jagg but with the significant improvements made to the ultracool units they are the better choice in my opinion. I wouldn't ever recommend the oilbud units.

[Twolanerider]

I have sold and installed several of the Jagg and Ultracool kits over years. Up until the past few years I would recommend the Jagg but with the significant improvements made to the ultracool units they are the better choice in my opinion. I wouldn't ever recommend the oilbud units.

Thanks Jim.  Just reviewing what you could see online and a couple of engineering drawings I found I was leaning toward the newer UltraCool units also.  Not spending the dollars until I see how the bike handles warmer weather.  Given what I've seen so far I'd not be surprised if something becomes necessary though so just sorting out the details now.  Appreciate sharing the experience.

[Finster101]

Dang they are all ugly though.  Seems they really want to stick them out there to be seen.

[Twolanerider]

Dang they are all ugly though.  Seems they really want to stick them out there to be seen.

Amen to that.  Butt ugly.  That's why I'm waiting to see how the bike will do in hot weather rather than just saying "to hell with it" and buying parts now.

[TN]

Only reason I brought up the baker +1.5 oil pan was to indicate why I didn’t have any data pertaining to my jagg 10 row fan assisted oil cooler as a cooling device.

 Just Ride!

I have a +1 on the 05.
Once the oil warms up  - it is warmed up and the pan does nothing to drop the temp.
It does seem to allow the oil to cool off quicker once stopped.

I did the pan mainly for the extra quart of oil and the the change in oil flow over stock. Also an integrated 'Straight 8' ride stabilizer kit at the time (which alos did not help much if any).

Duane, your +1 pan is a baker?   I’d like to further discuss this sometime, I’ll try to stay on topic.


Anyone care to discuss head fans? 

[Twolanerider]

 I’ll try to stay on topic.

What ?   

Since when is that a thing? 

[Twolanerider]

So I'll help.....


Hey Duane, Phil is interested in your oil pan.  Whatcha got to share bro?

[TN]

So I'll help.....


Hey Duane, Phil is interested in your oil pan.  Whatcha got to share bro?

What ?   

Since when is that a thing? 

 Uncle.   

[motor1]

I added this pan about four years ago. I change my oil several times each season and start by adding 3 quarts and taking her for a long ride so she gets hot. I then check the oil and wind up adding 1 quart. So in spite of the claim of an additional 1.5 quarts available, I’m still at 4 quarts. The pan will not except more than 4 quarts without showing overfill on the dipstick.

[Twolanerider]

I added this pan about four years ago. I change my oil several times each season and start by adding 3 quarts and taking her for a long ride so she gets hot. I then check the oil and wind up adding 1 quart. So in spite of the claim of an additional 1.5 quarts available, I’m still at 4 quarts. The pan will not except more than 4 quarts without showing overfill on the dipstick.

That is interesting.  First I've read of someone experiencing no added volume from the supposedly added volume oil pans.  That had to be frustrating as those pans are expensive.

[motor1]

That is interesting.  First I've read of someone experiencing no added volume from the supposedly added volume oil pans.  That had to be frustrating as those pans are expensive.

It is extremely frustrating as you are well aware the pans listed as an additional 1.5 quarts. My thought was ultimately to run with five and leave it 1/2 quart low. That would give me additional oil capacity but prevent excessive blow by or misting, at least that was my original thought. All for naught.
I always wonder if I should have purchased the Baker oil pan.

[porthole]

Only reason I brought up the baker +1.5 oil pan was to indicate why I didn’t have any data pertaining to my jagg 10 row fan assisted oil cooler as a cooling device.

 Just Ride!

Duane, your +1 pan is a baker?   I’d like to further discuss this sometime, I’ll try to stay on topic.

Phil, yes to the Baker. Lots of pictures somewhere here on the forum. And that is on the SEEG

[Dan_Lockwood]

Don, I see your "new" upgrades are on an older Twin Cam.  I'm not sure, but do the earlier Twin Cams have a different oil pump than the newer '07 and up Twin Cams?

At what point is an oil cooler too much?  What I mean is this, I will be looking for added oil cooling when I build my Harley powered car next winter.  Hayden oil coolers has offered to get me a larger cooler that I can mount that might resemble a radiator for the "look" factor and also added cooling.

Because my cooler and oil tank will be mounted above the oil pump level AND I may be in the range of around 5 qts of oil overall, how much will an '05 oil pump pump, so to speak?  Will it pump the oil through a larger cooler, then into the holding tank and circulate correctly?

Do they make high flow pumps for '05 and earlier?

Just thought I would ask it in your thread, not to hijack it though.

So anyone have any thoughts on how much the oil pump will pump?

Thanks and Don, your new motor looks awesome!

[J.D.]

You can upgrade the "early" Twin Cam camchest with the hybrid camplate kit which both solves the spring-loaded tensioner design flaw plus upgrades the oil pump to the latest design (significantly more flow & scavenging).

https://mstore.harley-davidson.com/store/se-hydraulic-tensioner---oil-pump-upgrade

[Twolanerider]

Dan, the newer oil pump and the the newer hydraulic tensioners are both gained with the hybrid cam plate upgrade.  It's Harley part number 25284-11.  That kit is not everything you'll need.  A set of cam spacers, the mounting hardware kit for cam and crank bolts and of course the gaskets and o-rings.  The cam plate kit is the lion's share though.

Do that kit and the rest of your worries for oil management should be put to rest.  Then do your oil cooler if oil temps in operation make it necessary.

[TN]

Phil, yes to the Baker. Lots of pictures somewhere here on the forum. And that is on the SEEG

Okay, while I don't believe Bakers claim to amount of cooling in temp there are real world factors that are in play. The crossover with exhaust is one, that area on the baker pan is part of their design to aid in cooling by adding more surface area on the inside,  heat from the exhaust has to factor in that situation (if crossover is used.) I also find it interesting you stated that the oil seems to cool off quicker after parked, I never observed that. Just a comparison to stock oil pan and it's obvious that the baker pan is more efficient in aid of cooling to me in some degree(s).

Maybe I need to have my oil pan fan assisted? j/k I do like the increased oil capacity though. I think the M8 has an increased oil capacity vs the twitcam for whatever reason.

Just Ride

I add 4qt 12oz at oil change now vs 3qt on stock.

[Twolanerider]

Ginger Ale?  Oh, that stuff is NASTY .

[Fired00d]

Ginger Ale?  Oh, that stuff is NASTY .

All depends on what it's mixed with... that is TN's garage/workshop.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Twolanerider]

All depends on what it's mixed with... that is TN's garage/workshop.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

Too true!  And the pretty machining inside that oil pan would have to make anything around it taste better....  Just would.

[TN]

All depends on what it's mixed with... that is TN's garage/workshop.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

I’m never too old to learn, and I ain’t fifty anymore. 

This cryptic message only makes sense on Monday's 

Too true!  And the pretty machining inside that oil pan would have to make anything around it taste better....  Just would.

Their oil pan is purty.           

[HD Street Performance]

The added capacity by itself doesn't help cool the oil, it just takes longer to get hot. The oil pan is a source of cooling and the baker design could help this some. One benefit I see is more time for the oil to lose entrained air.

[Twolanerider]

 One benefit I see is more time for the oil to lose entrained air.

Yuck, take all the entrained air out of the Ginger Ale?  Actually, flat Ginger Ale couldn't be much worse than the normal stuff. 

[porthole]

Okay, while I don't believe Bakers claim to amount of cooling in temp there are real world factors that are in play. The crossover with exhaust is one, that area on the baker pan is part of their design to aid in cooling by adding more surface area on the inside,  heat from the exhaust has to factor in that situation (if crossover is used.) I also find it interesting you stated that the oil seems to cool off quicker after parked, I never observed that. Just a comparison to stock oil pan and it's obvious that the baker pan is more efficient in aid of cooling to me in some degree(s).

Maybe I need to have my oil pan fan assisted? j/k I do like the increased oil capacity though. I think the M8 has an increased oil capacity vs the twitcam for whatever reason.

Just Ride

I add 4qt 12oz at oil change now vs 3qt on stock.

My goal was not the "advertised cooling", I just wanted more capacity.
1 quart doesn't sound like much until you use percentages, then it is a 25% increase.
 

[Twolanerider]

I went with a hybridized solution.

My preference was the UltraCool cooler.  No issue with the Jagg tank but the newest version of the UC tank was as good or better and the UC fan solution impressed me more.  However....

I didn't like that either still cooled the oil without the fans regardless of weather/ambient temperature.  Jagg offered a valve one could manually turn on or off and UC offered a magnetic cover to block air over the cooler.  Really wasn't a huge fan of either solution.  So, me being me, I pieced something together.

The 03-04-05 SERK and SEEG 103 engines had a cooler with an oil filter adapter that had a thermostatic valve in it (probably later engines also but that's what I was familiar with).  It would shut off oil to the cooler when it was below temp.  I had one one of those in my parts spares.   Ordered the UC cooler assy by itself without their filter adapter and used that old Harley filter adapter.  Swapped the stock 1/4 NPT to 3/8 line nipples that were stock on the bottom of the Harley adapter for some 1/4 NPT to 6AN 90 degree fittings and made up AN lines to go from the filter housing to the tank.  Really couldn't have been an easier physical installation and wired the fans to the accessory switch on the Road Glide dash.

Installed this way I've got no cooler in cool weather (as [to me] it should be), regular cooling effect without the fans when the engine gets warm while cruising, and I can turn on the fans in town or when I see the oil temp gauge climb a bit.  Some may prefer a fully automated electrically thermostatic control for the fans and just never have to think about it.  I'll gladly trade occasionally turning on the fans with the illuminated (so I obviously know if on or off) dash accessory switch versus always having oil going through the cooler tank even in cooler weather.

[HD Street Performance]

Years ago when I installed a cooler on my 07 SG I wanted a few things after seeing issues through the years. Uptube mounted cooler in the wind and out of the path of an oil change and road debris, a thermostat, and AN fittings and hoses, that's hydraulic fittings, not anodized worm screw clamped fittings and braided hose for show. Worked fine and is still on the bike today with over 60k miles. No electrics. My current CVO 110 uses Wards fans and the OEM cooler which I protect on oil changes and have had it off to clean the fins as a maintenance item. At the bottom of the frame they will pick up road debris even when protected on oil changes.

[Twolanerider]

^^ I never use those cheap aluminum anodized AN bits you buy over the counter and screw together.  Have seen them split, flares that won't seal, enough problems to know not for me.  Local machine shop of a buddy of mine has tooling to make hydraulic lines; even little stuff.  So just went to his place after hours one evening.