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Custom Vehicle Discussions => Screamin' Eagle® Electra Glide® => Topic started by: 110tHunDer on July 23, 2005, 05:29:17 PM
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Just curious, now that the news is out, to see who's interested in stepping up to an SE Ultra from their SEEG. [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
P.S. I didn't make up the "SEUCEG" moniker, that's what H-D calls it (Screamin' Eagle Ultra Classic Electra Glide). [smiley=nervous.gif]
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The only thing that SEUCEG has that I covet is the 'built-in' SAT Radio. Maybe there will be a way to adapt that to the SEEG ???? spyder
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Not in a million years!
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where do we get one of those radios at?
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Just curious, now that the news is out, to see who's interested in stepping up to an SE Ultra from their SEEG. [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
P.S. I didn't make up the "SEUCEG" moniker, that's what H-D calls it (Screamin' Eagle Ultra Classic Electra Glide). [smiley=nervous.gif]
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ! I am so glad that the new bike just isn't anything really special. That way I won't have to be fussy (fussier) for a few days thinking about it [smiley=beerchug.gif]
(But man I wish we could use those radio systems and some of the component add-ons to them.)
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(But man I wish we could use those radio systems and some of the component add-ons to them.)
The radio is SWEET! I'll have a hard time believing they won't eventually make a retrofit kit. Still, even if they do, $1,000 for the radio is pretty steep. [smiley=shocked2.gif]
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The radio is SWEET! I'll have a hard time believing they won't eventually make a retrofit kit. Still, even if they do, $1,000 for the radio is pretty steep. [smiley=shocked2.gif]
And that $1grand is just the radio. It's another 500 bucks for the XM kit plus however much more for whatever adaptor harnesses one would need. It's totally freaking nuts. Absolutely untenable. Totally without justification in any real sense. I'd have ordered one today if it had fit my damned bike !
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And that $1grand is just the radio. It's another 500 bucks for the XM kit plus however much more for whatever adaptor harnesses one would need. It's totally freaking nuts. Absolutely untenable. Totally without justification in any real sense. I'd have ordered one today if it had fit my damned bike !
I hear ya! [smiley=beerchug.gif]
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I hear ya! [smiley=beerchug.gif]
There we go. Proof. Finally. We're all just freaking nuts. [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]
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No Way! I like the SEEG much better, Why trade up to get a better stereo and an ugly paint scheme?
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I don't know guys , I kind of like that crimson and charcoal bike. I'll wait to see what it looks like in the flesh.
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With my SEEG problems (Chrome and the latest Throttle Cable Snap) I am interested...
/Bill
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WFP
If your considering,
Then consider that I might want your SEEG!
Nancy has decided that she should change her handle from SE06 to something else!
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I'm with you guys on the radio - HD finally got into to 21st century. I sure hope they'll make it retrofitable. If not, Darrell (our website's electrical genious) will figure out how - While I like the '05 paint schemes better, you're getting a heck of a lot for $2K over the 2005's - the stereo setup; heated seat, heated grips, very cool looking fairing dash pad, nicer wheels (?), year newer...like all of our SEs, it's a great package for the money. PJ
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WFP
If your considering,
Then consider that I might want your SEEG!
Nancy has decided that she should change her handle from SE06 to something else!
Since nothing in the 06 lineup interests Nancy, I am sure an 040/05 SEEG will come up that she is interersted in. They are absolutely great. For the 06 Ultra, the seat height is a little higher. I can continue to throw money at my own money pit to make it right.... HD still does not have all the right answers right out of the box.
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She rode the SEEG the other night and I rode the Classic.
She loves it!
Only stipulation is hers has to be faster.
I'm okay with that, just means that there will be two bikes faster than Tater's CVO Ultra!
[smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif]
Hey Carl, get that checkbook out, it's time!
[smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]
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Only stipulation is hers has to be faster.
Chip, now I've seen you and I've seen Nancy and in another thread we established that the skinnier the rider, the faster the bike. In other words, it sucks to be you. [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]
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I don't know guys , I kind of like that crimson and charcoal bike. I'll wait to see what it looks like in the flesh.
Crimson and charcoal would be my absolute favorite of the new schemes as well. I actually quite like it from at least what you can tell from the photos. In fact of the three it's the only one that I really do like. Having said that, I like your teal better [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
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Chip, now I've seen you and I've seen Nancy and in another thread we established that the skinnier the rider, the faster the bike. 'Nuff said. [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]
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Brian, er uh HELL
This is the Ultra thread not the Fatboy thread.
Stay on topic!
[smiley=drink.gif]
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Aw, crap, you quoted me before I could get the edit saved. [smiley=oops.gif]
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I'm with you guys on the radio - HD finally got into to 21st century. I sure hope they'll make it retrofitable. If not, Darrell (our website's electrical genious) will figure out how - While I like the '05 paint schemes better, you're getting a heck of a lot for $2K over the 2005's - the stereo setup; heated grips, very cool looking fairing dash pad, nicer wheels (?), year newer...like all of our SEs, it's a great package for the money. PJ
I'd had kind of the same thought PJ. At least as far as it goes. The roughly $2k price difference is more than eaten up by just what HD is asking for the various radio and communications components separately.
But that's about the only thing that really jazzes me up about it. I like the 05 wheels better. The little leather inner fairing tonneau cover thingie I really don't have a clue about, though it might be good for banana guys though. Something to knock the glare down a little. It's also in the new accessory list). The heated grips have had so much trouble I'd continue to worry about them. Having them wired internally would only worry me more. Not because of even higher expected failure rates but just because they'd be that much more difficult to mess with when/if they did fail. Heated gloves would just be a lot easier to replace.
The price difference between the SEEG and the SE Ultra (assuming you've already accepted the SEEG's price as acceptable) really isn't an issue. The differences in the audio more than account for the difference all by themselves. It's the entire package that seems a bit wonting though.
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Even though I think they shortchanged the bike by not using 6speed . I like all the electronics stuff. Would be nice to have them buried in the fairing instead of hanging on the bars which is the case with my 05. Some of the switches for the 06 radio are referencing old part numbers like the left handlebar control. They do have a new interface cable for all the optional boxes. If it fits physically I bet it will work electrically in older models. They have some pseudo parts list posted in with the options. I like two out of the three colors don't like the green. But I also never thought I would have a yellow bike. I tried to talk myself out of it but I will trade or sell the 05 for an 06 and hope like hell it won't be green.
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Brian, er uh HELL
This is the Ultra thread not the Fatboy thread.
Stay on topic!
[smiley=drink.gif]
Some nights this place is more fun than the law should allow [smiley=beerchug.gif]
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Another reason Tater needs a CVO Ultra.
See attached picture.
Tater just blew out his Rinehart baffle trying to keep up with me!
The conversation went like this,
Me, Carl, if you had Freedom pipes you would not be having this trouble!
Tater, Chip, you don't understand, I'm from West by God Virginny, this can't be happening to me! You wait till the 06 CVO Ultra's come out, I will have one!
.
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And here's Otis wishing Tater did have a CVO.
Otis is just glad I'm the one working on Tater's bike, instead of him.
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(But man I wish we could use those radio systems and some of the component add-ons to them.)
Yea, like the 160 watt amplifier would be really nice.
But when the hell are they going to have ABS brakes and a six disc stackable in dash stereo?
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Another reason Tater needs a CVO Ultra.
See attached picture.
Tater just blew out his Rinehart baffle trying to keep up with me!
The conversation went like this,
Me, Carl, if you had Freedom pipes you would not be having this trouble!
Tater, Chip, you don't understand, I'm from West by God Virginny, this can't be happening to me! You wait till the 06 CVO Ultra's come out, I will have one!
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And there is HUBBARD watching someone else work on his bike (AS USUAL).
The other night me and OTIS put his new orange glow lights on and he actually had the nerve to make a comment that I will choose not to repeat word for word but that has the same meaning as "don't ya'll "jerry rig" up my bike". After OTIS got off the phone with HUBBARD I made the statement that we would have to start taking a lot of "Chit" OFF his bike simply to get back to the point that it was only "JERRY RIGGED".
And there is NO WAY that I would trade my SEEG for one of them ther SUCKA$$ or whatever we're callin em. The folks at H-D that came up with the leather tourpak and new paint schemes should be shot.
Looks like I'm gonna have to "WAIT TO 08"
REGARDS
SHRADER
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I have to agree with everone on the new radio. I love my XM on my SEEG. I am not so sure about the leather tour pak. I bought my SEEG because I got tired of cleaning/treating leather saddle bags! I would rather have the normal hard tour pack.
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Well I will be taking delivery of an 06 ultra probably Black cherry crimson and slate grey but AM NOT giving up my 04 SEEG. The ultra will become our traveling bike and the SEEG will be my new play toy.
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Those new leather tourpacks are fugly ... what a stupid idea! [smiley=thumbsdown.gif]
I'll definately be keeping my '05 after seeing those pics.
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Yea, like the 160 watt amplifier would be really nice.
But when the hell are they going to have ABS brakes and a six disc stackable in dash stereo?
With the ability to play MP3 discs I'd get less concerned about the multi disc capability JC. Lots of mechanism to be bouncing around in there on a bike and an MP3 disc can last for hours and hours and hours anyway. Even without a mult-disk capability though I'd sure like to have that new radio and some of it's accessories. From what can be read so far it looks nice.
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I'm getting an 06 SE Ultra. But I've just about made up my mind to keep my 04 SEEG and sell the 03 Ultra. Anybody interested in a Black/Silver 03 Ultra?
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I just spoke with my contact down at the dealer show. I ordered the new radio with all the options. I'm not worried about compatibility, I will make this thing work on the SEEG one way or another. It's pricy but probably worth it to save on aggravation. Hopefully have it working before I leave on my trip in September.
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Well there your answer, if it can be done Darrell will find a way. [smiley=beerchug.gif]
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Well there your answer, if it can be done Darrell will find a way. [smiley=beerchug.gif]
Yep, you can bet on him and take it to the bank. As far as trickin out bikes go, I think he's leader of this pack. He may even have Gary A from Stockton beat although Gary is on the cutting edge also (he just doesn't post all his alterations here, anymore). Too bad for us cause like Darrell, he's got some really trick stuff done to his bikes, too. Lot of similaraties.......and they both have a garage full of bikes, too. Man, life just ain't fair! [smiley=nervous.gif]
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Not me... I like my yellow glide just fine... [smiley=biggthumpup.gif]
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I just spoke with my contact down at the dealer show. I ordered the new radio with all the options. I'm not worried about compatibility, I will make this thing work on the SEEG one way or another. It's pricy but probably worth it to save on aggravation. Hopefully have it working before I leave on my trip in September.
Darrel I'll drop you a PM as well in case this gets missed in the traffic of the threads. I was going to wait a couple of months and see if Harley offered an adaptor harness of some kind before looking at building something myself. However.......
If you're going to look at it immediately and the job does turn out to be something that can be accomplished with an adaptor harness to go from the stock connector to the new radio then consider making a second one while the first one is still fresh in your hands. Will gladly pay a fair price for the effort. Who knows, several might want duplicates if it's something that's not to difficult to reproduce.
Good luck,
Don
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From the man that brought you custom lockable glove boxes to syncronized LED blinking tail lights, somehow I was betting that Darrell would lead the charge on the radio retrofit. Darrell, your contributions on this site have been nothing less than spectacular. Thanks... PJ
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Just curious, now that the news is out, to see who's interested in stepping up to an SE Ultra from their SEEG. [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
P.S. I didn't make up the [bgcolor=Yellow]"SEUCEG"[/bgcolor] moniker, that's what H-D calls it (Screamin' Eagle Ultra Classic Electra Glide). [smiley=nervous.gif]
EEEwwww!!
Sorry [smiley=nixweiss.gif] but I gotta say, after seeing the pictures, I think the MoCo named this one appropriately, but I woudn't go for a SUCK EGG! [smiley=nervous.gif]
These things will undoubtably push the value of our SEEGs up! [smiley=beerchug.gif]
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I think I'll pass on the '06. If you just consider appearance, the SEEG is a much better looking bike. In my humble opinion, the paint scheme and the tour-pak on the Ultra are butt ugly. On the functional side, I don't see anything listed for the Ultra that I want or need. I was hoping for functional improvements to things like the brakes and the suspension, and maybe the transmission. Lacking those, there is no compelling reason for me to switch.
Jerry
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I think I'll pass on the '06. If you just consider appearance, the SEEG is a much better looking bike. In my humble opinion, the paint scheme and the tour-pak on the Ultra are butt ugly. On the functional side, I don't see anything listed for the Ultra that I want or need. I was hoping for functional improvements to things like the brakes and the suspension, and maybe the transmission. Lacking those, there is no compelling reason for me to switch.
Jerry
I second that! [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
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I second that! [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
I'll take a third! Sure hate the idea of a 35K HD getting confused with a Gold Wing in the parking lot. IMP HD took a giant step backwards.
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I'm hoping EVERYONE will buy an 06 Ultra.
Then maybe the market will be flooded with 04 and 05 SEEG's.
And I will get another one.
Maybe even at a bargain!
[smiley=laugh.gif]
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I'm hoping EVERYONE will buy an 06 Ultra.
Then maybe the market will be flooded with 04 and 05 SEEG's.
And I will get another one.
Maybe even at a bargain!
[smiley=laugh.gif]
I suspect the 4's and 5's are going to be reselling at a premium after looking at the Ultra. I think HD may have a quiet "home run" with the Street Glide, however, for the folks who would like to take a crack at putting together a personalized scooter based upon the SEEG's. I played around with the numbers last night based upon starting with the Street Glide at dealer cost and building a Screamin Eagle package, complete with suspension, go-faster 103 and one off custom paint. Should be able to bring the project in at about 28.5K as opposed to the 35K "out the door" numbers for the 06' Ultra which, of course, do include the next 5K required to get it to ride and perform right. Think I just talked myself into another project bike.....
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BLM, those 'figures' on the project bike only apply to someone like you who has the option of 'dealer-cost' on the new bike.........were you applying that 'dealer-cost' to the initial cost of the SEUCEG also? [smiley=nixweiss.gif] spyder
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BLM, those 'figures' on the project bike only apply to someone like you who has the option of 'dealer-cost' on the new bike.........were you applying that 'dealer-cost' to the initial cost of the SEUCEG also? [smiley=nixweiss.gif] spyder
Yup, I came up with the 35K basically figuring the items you need to do to get it to ride and run before you crank it up the first time such as shocks, fork springs, Rineharts, Stage 1, RT and dyno. The numbers on the "project bike" will also be low if you figure in full labor on the engine and mods. My number is with about 80% of the labor done myself with the additional work traded out or calling in a few favors. It's just about a pure cost number in putting it together, but I've been figuring for quite some time how to come up with a one off "runner" without cannabalizing a SEEG. They're just bringing a ton of money used and can't justify pissin' it away by trying to fix something that ain't broke. [smiley=laugh.gif]
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The radio is SWEET! I'll have a hard time believing they won't eventually make a retrofit kit. Still, even if they do, $1,000 for the radio is pretty steep. [smiley=shocked2.gif]
I think the same will be true of the radio as it is with many of the other subcontracted HD parts. Word will be out very soon (as soon as the first warranty claim) as to the manufacturer of the radio. You can bet that there will be a similar item on the market from the same maker or a means to "factory direct" a copy of this unit less HD the logo. Just a thought.
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BLM, the radio's manufacturer is Harman Kardon.
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Word will be out very soon (as soon as the first warranty claim) as to the manufacturer of the radio.
This time around the product is actually being pushed (marketed) because of the OE manufacturer. One of the rare times when HD isn't trying to take credit (or at least leave the perception of credit) for everything on it's own. The whole package is being touted as a partnership. It's the"HD Advanced Audio System from Harmon/Kardon," or something like that.
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Wow, look at the poll numbers. 47 to 4 as this post is written. So even with the issues some of had there must be some pretty significant satisfaction and pride of ownership in the old SEEGs?
(Or a lot of people just see nothing markedly better in the SuckEggs?)
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BLM, the radio's manufacturer is Harman Kardon.
I like the radio and am not sure if that is the same one as in the King Ranch Edition Ford Pickups for '06 with a different faceplate. Size and features are the same. I'll make a couple of calls and post if it is, as those can be purchased wholesale from several sources.
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Wow, look at the poll numbers. 47 to 4 as this post is written. So even with the issues some of had there must be some pretty significant satisfaction and pride of ownership in the old SEEGs?
(Or a lot of people just see nothing markedly better in the SuckEggs?)
Me thinks it's the 1 good and 2 bad colors along with the Gold Wing tour pac and price tag...
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Wow, look at the poll numbers. 47 to 4 as this post is written. So even with the issues some of had there must be some pretty significant satisfaction and pride of ownership in the old SEEGs?
(Or a lot of people just see nothing markedly better in the SuckEggs?)
I know I'm still in love [smiley=sweetheart.gif] and I write this as my bike's in the shop for peeling chrome floorboards and transmission top cover, poor cruise control operation, weaving front-end and clunking rear-end.
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103tHunDer........what happened to your cruise control? [smiley=nixweiss.gif] 1st I've heard of problems out of that component. I have gotten so used to mine, I can't stand the thought of doing w/o it now. Har! spyder
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Just curious, now that the news is out, to see who's interested in stepping up to an SE Ultra from their SEEG. [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
P.S. I didn't make up the "SEUCEG" moniker, that's what H-D calls it (Screamin' Eagle Ultra Classic Electra Glide). [smiley=nervous.gif]
No way would I trade the SEEG for the new CVO Ultra. I don't want to say anything negative and criticize those that are getting one so I will keep my comments to myself. Let's just say that I am not impressed.
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103tHunDer........what happened to your cruise control? [smiley=nixweiss.gif] 1st I've heard of problems out of that component. I have gotten so used to mine, I can't stand the thought of doing w/o it now. Har! spyder
I never used a cruise control until this bike, but I'm with you Spyder...I love it. Guess I'm still a little afraid of its getting a mind of its own in town, so I kill it at the master switch when in traffic. Only problem on the road is that I tend to take even more naps than I used to. [smiley=bigok.gif]
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103tHunDer........what happened to your cruise control? [smiley=nixweiss.gif] 1st I've heard of problems out of that component. I have gotten so used to mine, I can't stand the thought of doing w/o it now. Har! spyder
Spyder, it loses about 2 - 3 mph before engaging. I think there is some adjustment to take slack out of the cable which will solve the problem. If not, a new cruise module should be just the ticket. Just trying to get all the issues worked out before the warranty is up in a couple months.
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How does the 'extended warrenty' work for something like that? Is it only for the larger problems? [smiley=nixweiss.gif] spyder
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How does the 'extended warrenty' work for something like that? Is it only for the larger problems? [smiley=nixweiss.gif] spyder
No, I think it would be covered, but with a deductible.
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No way would I trade the SEEG for the new CVO Ultra. I don't want to say anything negative and criticize those that are getting one so I will keep my comments to myself. Let's just say that I am not impressed.
OK, I guess I have been a little critical, but with the SEEG/SEEG2 as yardsticks, it's hard to be humble. As we pointed out in another thread, we were bad-mouthing the SEEG2 to some extent a year ago when it came out, but we love 'em now, don't we? These comments about the SEUCEG will be around to read a year or two from now as well, so it will be interesting to see how our impressions change again as time goes on.
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No way, no how. Not impressed withthe 06. Let's Roll
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First look at SE Ultra I thought it looks great, not to impressed with color schemes but as with all Harley paint jobs pictures do no justice! Looking over the features the radio was the only part of the bike that caught my attention. I also love our painted tour pak over the leather.
Has anyone heard what order the colors will be comming out in. Would like to see the black candy crimson and charcoal in person.
JR [smiley=laugh.gif]
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Wow, look at the poll numbers. 47 to 4 as this post is written. So even with the issues some of had there must be some pretty significant satisfaction and pride of ownership in the old SEEGs?
(Or a lot of people just see nothing markedly better in the SuckEggs?)
2Lane,
Another possibility: Still fixing all the stuff on the SEEG and not interested in starting that process all over again.
Jerry
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I was wondering how the detachable tour pack will work,you are going to lose two speakers when you detach. One of the strong points of an Ultra is the extra visibility of the side lights and running light. Not having seen one in person the pictures I've seen don't show this on the leather tour pack. I'm going to keep what I got,10,000 miles and I have no complaints. I would have rather seen HD come out with an air conditioned seat vs a heated one. For $1000 I'll keep singing to myself,I think I sound good at 70mph and no one else can hear me. [smiley=policeman.gif]
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I was wondering how the detachable tour pack will work,you are going to lose two speakers when you detach. One of the strong points of an Ultra is the extra visibility of the side lights and running light. Not having seen one in person the pictures I've seen don't show this on the leather tour pack. I'm going to keep what I got,10,000 miles and I have no complaints. I would have rather seen HD come out with an air conditioned seat vs a heated one. For $1000 I'll keep singing to myself,I think I sound good at 70mph and no one else can hear me. [smiley=policeman.gif]
Unless I missed something, I don't believe the tour-pak is detachable. All I saw in the description was "adjustable", as in two positions.
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Yeah, from a few different perspectives now we've figured out it's not a detachable tour pak. Not unexpected when you've got lights, bluetooth hardware, amplifiers and other goodies all mounted back there. It might actually be a pretty heavy little piece to lift on and off detachable points were it such. [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
Can understand what will the connections that would have to exist to make it detachable why it isn't. One of the nice things about the red bike, however, is that with King Pak, the chopped pak, the passenger backrest the bike can pretty quickly have three pretty distinctive looks and a couple of distinctive purposes. That flexibility is nice.
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Get rid of the leather one (or put it in storage to keep the value), buy a chopped tour pack, paint to match, then put quick release on your electrical and amplifier connections and I think it'd be a scoot to have.
At 160 watts, I'm real curious about those speakers. What are they......who makes em? Inquiring minds want to know. Pez......sorry brother......but you may have some stiff competition around the corner.
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Harley's having a seminar at sturgis on radio retrofit, check their calander
[smiley=beerchug.gif]
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Harley's having a seminar at sturgis on radio retrofit, check their calander
[smiley=beerchug.gif]
Wellllll, maybe. Here's what is described on their calendar:
3PM Service Seminar II: "Advanced Audio System – Function and Retrofit-Ability." Rushmore Plaza Civic Center Indoor Show
Let the experts from Harley-Davidson University guide you through the new Advanced Audio System featured on the 2006 Touring models. A demonstration and Q&A session will follow the presentation.
Sounds like it could be a lot of hype about all the new bells and whistles and marketing of the various add-on components followed by one sentence of saying something like "well, we don't recommend field retrofits." Maybe we'll get lucky though [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
They are doing he same presentation several days in a row at the same time (3:00 PM) at the same location. So anyone there will have more than one attempt to see it. If someone does attend please report in on what was learned.
Here's the link to the Harley calendar for Sturgis:
http://www.harley-davidson.com/wcm/Content/Pages/Events/05_sturgis_events_6.jsp?locale=en_US
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No Way! I like the SEEG much better, Why trade up to get a better stereo and an ugly paint scheme?
I second this motion!! Besides have these stereos proven themselves to be better? There is no way I'd get rid of my "pumpkin"!!!
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
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I second this motion!! Besides have these stereos proven themselves to be better? There is no way I'd get rid of my "pumpkin"!!!
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
FLH, the radio's described specifications and areas of functionality and component upgradeability are sure a big improvement. Nobody knows yet though if they'll hold up for crap though [smiley=nixweiss.gif] . I think everyone who'd like to change is just crossing their fingers on that one [smiley=beerchug.gif]
(Too bad the rest of the bike didn't get comparable levels of change and upgrade as the radio did.)
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Judging from the looks of the poll, a radio and leather covered locker bolted to the back really hasn't made much of an impression. Colors are great though....they should make a hit at funeral processions.
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Colors are great though....they should make a hit at funeral processions.
Ouch!
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Didn't mean the comment to be painful! [smiley=laugh.gif] If it wasn't for diversity we'd all be riding the same model and color bike. Now wouldn't that make an exciting pic at Maggie Valley. See how quick the thread comes around to the Valley?