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[Harley Guy]

You can also increase price which will increase profits IF we customers are willing to pay the new increases.

On that hote, I am wondering if the HD strategy is exactly that--fewer bikes at higher prices and hopefully better quality.  This business of loading the showrooms up with bikes--betting on the come- is becoming very risky.

The better strategy would be a improved suppy chain management and delivery process. 

I think that's where we will see things heading. A good sample of the models offered and a order delivery process that puts your new (perhaps customized) bike in your driveway or at your dealer in 2 weeks from order.

Many of us are already doing most all of our routine maintenance. The $100 plus/hr oil changes and tire checks are reaching if only for principle, a cost many of us are unwilling to pay any longer.
The result, fewer and fewer dealership mechanics on the line.

Despite all of our grubling I think many will agree that the motors and transmissions coming out of the motor company today are a lot better than in the past. Catastrophic motor failures are few and when they do occur under warranty at least, you are just as likely to get a new motor in leiu of a rebuid mainly because its quicker and less expensive.

It's going to be interesting going forward.......

Good read  -  and good thoughts.
.
Increased sales in my senerio includes increased prices.
.
Two weeks lead time, IMO, is NOT a cost effective operating situation.......more like 45 to 60 is doable. You can't have people and plants and parts sitting around - your Working Capital costs would sink the ship QUICKLY.
.
The variable of operating a BIG compamy is immense and complicated.
.
Thanks for your thoughts - they are reasonable and well stated...
.
Spring time.....RIDE ON.....
.

[CVOStreetglide]

Good read  -  and good thoughts.
.
Increased sales in my senerio includes increased prices.
.
Two weeks lead time, IMO, is NOT a cost effective operating situation.......more like 45 to 60 is doable. You can't have people and plants and parts sitting around - your Working Capital costs would sink the ship QUICKLY.
.
The variable of operating a BIG compamy is immense and complicated.
.
Thanks for your thoughts - they are reasonable and well stated...
.
Spring time.....RIDE ON.....
.

Thank you for the kind words.

As support for my supply chain business model concept, I recently purchased a 2015 CVO Street Glide and noticed that the manufacture date was just over two weeks from the actual dealer delivery date.

Like me, many potential buyers make a point of becoming very familiar with the newest models by accessing the Harley-Davidson new model website just as soon as it is made available online which has incorporated state-of-the art photography and 360 viewing. If a desired features, order and payment vetting and submission process were added, manufacturing could begin almost immediately.

NOW LET'S GO RIDING!!    80's here today 

[2 ROSE]

I think that's where we will see things heading. A good sample of the models offered and a order delivery process that puts your new (perhaps customized) bike in your driveway or at your dealer in 2 weeks from order.

Many of us are already doing most all of our routine maintenance. The $100 plus/hr oil changes and tire checks are reaching if only for principle, a cost many of us are unwilling to pay any longer.
The result, fewer and fewer dealership mechanics on the line.

I think you briefly touched on what I feel would be an interesting concept...REAL factory made customized harleys...not no wanta be like our cvo's.
Why do we have to purchase a Harley with an exhaust or wheels or handle bars or seats that we intend on changing anyway...its just not fair...it is a great waste of money.
If the MoCo wants to get into customizing then do it right. In fact let's start with the word Custom in the  CVO nameplate and change it to Personalized...PVO. All our cvo's are is just more bling of someone else's liking. Why should I have to settle for the 110 and its insides when HD has the answers to fixing its issues but would rather have us pay for the 110 as is and then pay more to have it run properly or the way we want it. Maybe I would rather have a 113 or 115 or 120 or whatever the hell is out there.
Imagine purchasing a Harley decked out as you want it...what a novel idea. It may cost a little more when purchasing but that additional cost would be offset some what by not charging me for an exhaust, wheels, hanble bars or seat that I don't want, don't like and will never use and does nothing but keep getting in my way in my garage. Plus all of these parts would be MoCo parts and installed at the MoCo factory which should help with resale unlike what happens to us now when we add mods on our own. Hell I think they sorta do something like this with the sportster or something don't they?
...just saying.

I for one do not perform my own maintenance mainly because I do not have the time, expertise and my bike is still under warranty. I would think most people do not perform their own maintenance as evidenced by the length of time it takes to get an appointment.

[krypto2011]

I think you briefly touched on what I feel would be an interesting concept...REAL factory made customized harleys...not no wanta be like our cvo's.
Why do we have to purchase a Harley with an exhaust or wheels or handle bars or seats that we intend on changing anyway...its just not fair...it is a great waste of money.
If the MoCo wants to get into customizing then do it right. In fact let's start with the word Custom in the  CVO nameplate and change it to Personalized...PVO. All our cvo's are is just more bling of someone else's liking. Why should I have to settle for the 110 and its insides when HD has the answers to fixing its issues but would rather have us pay for the 110 as is and then pay more to have it run properly or the way we want it. Maybe I would rather have a 113 or 115 or 120 or whatever the hell is out there.
Imagine purchasing a Harley decked out as you want it...what a novel idea. It may cost a little more when purchasing but that additional cost would be offset some what by not charging me for an exhaust, wheels, hanble bars or seat that I don't want, don't like and will never use and does nothing but keep getting in my way in my garage. Plus all of these parts would be MoCo parts and installed at the MoCo factory which should help with resale unlike what happens to us now when we add mods on our own. Hell I think they sorta do something like this with the sportster or something don't they?
...just saying.

I for one do not perform my own maintenance mainly because I do not have the time, expertise and my bike is still under warranty. I would think most people do not perform their own maintenance as evidenced by the length of time it takes to get an appointment.

That all sounds great, but thanks to the EPA and Washington, we would still need to modify them to run correctly and no so lean!!

[charles05663]

I think you briefly touched on what I feel would be an interesting concept...REAL factory made customized harleys...not no wanta be like our cvo's.
Why do we have to purchase a Harley with an exhaust or wheels or handle bars or seats that we intend on changing anyway...its just not fair...it is a great waste of money.
If the MoCo wants to get into customizing then do it right. In fact let's start with the word Custom in the  CVO nameplate and change it to Personalized...PVO. All our cvo's are is just more bling of someone else's liking. Why should I have to settle for the 110 and its insides when HD has the answers to fixing its issues but would rather have us pay for the 110 as is and then pay more to have it run properly or the way we want it. Maybe I would rather have a 113 or 115 or 120 or whatever the hell is out there.
Imagine purchasing a Harley decked out as you want it...what a novel idea. It may cost a little more when purchasing but that additional cost would be offset some what by not charging me for an exhaust, wheels, hanble bars or seat that I don't want, don't like and will never use and does nothing but keep getting in my way in my garage. Plus all of these parts would be MoCo parts and installed at the MoCo factory which should help with resale unlike what happens to us now when we add mods on our own. Hell I think they sorta do something like this with the sportster or something don't they?
...just saying.

I for one do not perform my own maintenance mainly because I do not have the time, expertise and my bike is still under warranty. I would think most people do not perform their own maintenance as evidenced by the length of time it takes to get an appointment.

I think the real issues is a matter of numbers.  Due to EPA and CARB emissions standards and testing, HD would have to get permission for every combination they would want to sell.

If they only offered 3 engines standard engines and 5 exhaust, they would have over 15 designs approved.  If they gave an option of 4 different cams in those 3 engines and 5 exhausts it would jump to 60.

 

[CowboyBagger]

That all sounds great, but thanks to the EPA and Washington, we would still need to modify them to run correctly and no so lean!!

BMW K1600, 160hp, no modification and meets EPA standard.  MOCO needs to spend a little on research and development.  It's obvious they've just been spending enough to get by and it's now beginning to show.

Cowboy

[SDCVO]

BMW K1600, 160hp, no modification and meets EPA standard. 

Cowboy

And boring... Sorry

[Harley Guy]

Thank you for the kind words.

As support for my supply chain business model concept, I recently purchased a 2015 CVO Street Glide and noticed that the manufacture date was just over two weeks from the actual dealer delivery date.

Like me, many potential buyers make a point of becoming very familiar with the newest models by accessing the Harley-Davidson new model website just as soon as it is made available online which has incorporated state-of-the art photography and 360 viewing. If a desired features, order and payment vetting and submission process were added, manufacturing could begin almost immediately.

NOW LET'S GO RIDING!!    80's here today

I noted the two weeks delivery from manufacturing date.

Was it also two weeks from your order date? 

[mark]

I think you briefly touched on what I feel would be an interesting concept...REAL factory made customized harleys...not no wanta be like our cvo's.
Why do we have to purchase a Harley with an exhaust or wheels or handle bars or seats that we intend on changing anyway...its just not fair...it is a great waste of money.
If the MoCo wants to get into customizing then do it right. In fact let's start with the word Custom in the  CVO nameplate and change it to Personalized...PVO. All our cvo's are is just more bling of someone else's liking. Why should I have to settle for the 110 and its insides when HD has the answers to fixing its issues but would rather have us pay for the 110 as is and then pay more to have it run properly or the way we want it. Maybe I would rather have a 113 or 115 or 120 or whatever the hell is out there.
Imagine purchasing a Harley decked out as you want it...what a novel idea. It may cost a little more when purchasing but that additional cost would be offset some what by not charging me for an exhaust, wheels, hanble bars or seat that I don't want, don't like and will never use and does nothing but keep getting in my way in my garage. Plus all of these parts would be MoCo parts and installed at the MoCo factory which should help with resale unlike what happens to us now when we add mods on our own. Hell I think they sorta do something like this with the sportster or something don't they?
...just saying.

I for one do not perform my own maintenance mainly because I do not have the time, expertise and my bike is still under warranty. I would think most people do not perform their own maintenance as evidenced by the length of time it takes to get an appointment.

This sounds great from a customer perspective, but I'm sure the MoCo has crunched the numbers and determined it would not be cost-effective.  As an example, let's say 20% of those purchasing touring bikes change their handlebars and half of those purchase a replacement from HD.  Of those that purchase HD bars, let's say 95% have the HD shop do it, at $100/hr. labor.   This is more profitable for HD (and especially dealers) than letting customers custom order parts that would be installed on the assembly line.  I'm not an industrial engineer, but I can imagine the impact on the assembly line if HD started custom making bikes. The issue would be exacerbated when you requested engine mods, in addition to bike mods.  Now the engine plant would have to assemble an engine especially for you, then the assembly plant would have to ensure that engine got installed in your bike, along with the correct tune, etc., for that particular configuration.  Also, imagine having to keep all the various parts on-hand at the plant to custom make bikes (everything in the catalog?).  I always have to remind myself that a publicly held company's priority is to be profitable for the stockholders and not to make it financially easy on the customer.

[grc]

This sounds great from a customer perspective, but I'm sure the MoCo has crunched the numbers and determined it would not be cost-effective.  As an example, let's say 20% of those purchasing touring bikes change their handlebars and half of those purchase a replacement from HD.  Of those that purchase HD bars, let's say 95% have the HD shop do it, at $100/hr. labor.   This is more profitable for HD (and especially dealers) than letting customers custom order parts that would be installed on the assembly line.  I'm not an industrial engineer, but I can imagine the impact on the assembly line if HD started custom making bikes. The issue would be exacerbated when you requested engine mods, in addition to bike mods.  Now the engine plant would have to assemble an engine especially for you, then the assembly plant would have to ensure that engine got installed in your bike, along with the correct tune, etc., for that particular configuration.  Also, imagine having to keep all the various parts on-hand at the plant to custom make bikes (everything in the catalog?).  I always have to remind myself that a publicly held company's priority is to be profitable for the stockholders and not to make it financially easy on the customer.

Quite right Mark.  While we all have probably had that thought about Harley installing the stuff we want when they build the bike, so we don't wind up paying for the stuff that comes stock and then paying again to change it after the purchase, it would increase complexity and cost exponentially for a company like H-D.  One option they probably could handle, if they hire some of the right kinds of people to set it all up, would be the package system used in the auto industry.  Bundle some of the most popular options together and give each package a name and code.  They already do this if you think about it; they have the standard bikes and the CVO option package.  Now they just need to do some customer surveys and come up with a couple packages that fit in between the existing offerings.

Jerry

[VaEagle]

Interesting to me that this discussion about truly custom ordering a Harley has come up yet again. I have been seeing this for years and even brought it up myself.
Just my.02 but I see where that could be the H-D niche in the market. To me it's not only the government regulations that hurt performance/design of a H-D but it's also the customer base and marketing that sells the "old school" style and feelings. I bet it would be hard to increase performance and handling when you are stuck with a 1936 look and sound.
Several years ago when it seemed that anybody with a wrench and a big hammer had a bike making show and sold their custom bikes for big bucks H-D could have advertised themselves as the economical way to get a "one of" custom bike for less. Sort of how they sold us on the CVO idea at first.(Cheaper to buy a CVO then build it yourself off a stock bike.)
I realize that most of us at one point or another have swallowed the Kool-Aid from Willie G that our Harleys are blank canvases and we spend more to make it our own......Just imagine having to do that with other products you buy, to get you family car/truck to run right you must spend thousands first and then most accessories are sold after delivery etc.
Just imagine how nice it would be to be able to pull into a H-D service area without an appointment and it was easy in and out for service/maintenance since the local mechanics wouldn't be tied up with installing the parts that others are changing out.
Harley has done something with the Sportster build your own program since that would interest a younger buyer who is used to turn key buying and riding from other brands. Harley has survived due to a hard core group of devoted owners but once we die off will the young want all the problems and limitations of an old design? I think only time will tell.

[mark]

Wouldn't that be great if HD offered some packages as Jerry suggested.  Maybe a "comfort" package where you select the seat, windshield, and handle bars, a "power" package where you select from several different engines, a "chrome" package where the hand and foot controls, mirrors, and wheels are upgraded, and a "paint" package where you could select from several custom paint sets. 

[RonandJanet]

Interesting thread! As stated above most companies have to make margin and usually a balance of high volume low margin as well as some low volume high margin.  Automotive has high margin with trucks so they focus on more sales.

Automotive also understood that maintenance is a big money maker and they are really working to make that a drive-in event. This drives opportunity to identify other things that need to be done.  I am sure HD has done a lot of work figuring out what they need to do. I hope they improve the maintenance part as well. Lots of money there if they work this right. Many people don't mind paying for maintenance if it is reasonable. 

I think it is very expensive to be a custom order company type company even if they keep the basic engines etc. to comply with the regulations. I hate to hear about people being laid off especially when the economy is turning around.  I have known many people to lose their jobs, including myself, and it sucks.

[2 ROSE]

Just my.02 but I see where that could be the H-D niche in the market.

Harley has done something with the Sportster build your own program since that would interest a younger buyer who is used to turn key buying and riding from other brands. Harley has survived due to a hard core group of devoted owners but once we die off will the young want all the problems and limitations of an old design? I think only time will tell.

I agree with Eagle. The MoCo niche currently are the hard core customers, meaning those of us who would rather loose his clutch hand than ride a non-harley bike. The appeal is the looks, sound and history all of which incorporates the V-Twin. Not that many of us will care, but what happens within say 20 years when us old-farts, to steal the term from jerry, die off...once we are gone so goes the MoCo niche. You would think that it should get the MoCo off its cushy greater then thou asses and start to think a little outside their comfort zone. Cause I am thinking as we the hard core grow old and die off so does its V-Twin. We will be replaced by the younger generation of riders having little regard for the history and the V-Twin will likely be replaced with the electric motor. When that happens, and it will, then the MoCo will be no different, no better or no worse than any other motorcycle manufacturer. Without a niche, such as personalized Harleys V-Twin or not, I don't know if the MoCo can survive that.
Just a thought...

[CVOStreetglide]

I noted the two weeks delivery from manufacturing date.

Was it also two weeks from your order date?

NOPE!!