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[geezerglide]

BMW K1600, 160hp, no modification and meets EPA standard.  MOCO needs to spend a little on research and development.  It's obvious they've just been spending enough to get by and it's now beginning to show.

Cowboy

 

Had most of them K1200 GT, K1200 LT, R1150 Gt, all good bikes but boring as s__t. And don't believe the BMW owners who claim it is a highly engineered German Bike, yes it is/ You think Harley's have warranty issues, ask the BMW owners , if they will admit i.e. failed rear drives, failed transponders, front end and the list goes on.

Drove the BMW K1200, nice bike, no excitement. Sold my BMW K1200LT to a guy who had the K1600, he preferred the older style K1200 LT (2009). The BMW I enjoy the most is my old 2004 BMW GSA, had it on a CVO GTG in Nelson B.C. as I was waiting for parts for my 2003 Pseudo CVO Road Glide.

geezerglide

[Dr.D]

Sad to see the lay offs but business is just that.

A lot of reading about how to please the HD customers and that is laughable to me. We are the most  fickle people as a group. Nearly every Harley buyer feels like he has to change a thing or two to make the bike the way he wants it. Take one look at a Kuryaken or JP Cycle catalogue and compare the Harley items to all the other makers of bikes combined and it is a no contest. I do not think this means Harleys are junk but more likely that no one is satisfied till he gobs it up.

How many buy a Fiord or Chevy and have to spend on and on? Are you likely to modify all your other possessions like you do the Harley?

I believe there is no way in hell that the Moco could set a program that would satisfy even the majority of buyers such that they would not have to buy any more goodies for the bikes. Harley Davidsons are quite a unique commodity and possibly nothing else is modified after purchase as much. Whole companies and many families make a living off of the idea that no Harley is good enough, for me, off the show room.

[mark]

Layoffs, and then yesterday I received a HD promotion in the mail offering 3.99% financing.  I can't ever recall their rate being this low.  Indicative of lagging sales?

[MightyTharg]

 

Had most of them K1200 GT, K1200 LT, R1150 Gt, all good bikes but boring as s__t. And don't believe the BMW owners who claim it is a highly engineered German Bike, yes it is/ You think Harley's have warranty issues, ask the BMW owners , if they will admit i.e. failed rear drives, failed transponders, front end and the list goes on.

Drove the BMW K1200, nice bike, no excitement. Sold my BMW K1200LT to a guy who had the K1600, he preferred the older style K1200 LT (2009). The BMW I enjoy the most is my old 2004 BMW GSA, had it on a CVO GTG in Nelson B.C. as I was waiting for parts for my 2003 Pseudo CVO Road Glide.

geezerglide

Not quite a current thread but I came across this and couldn't help myself.

I've had K100RS R1100RT K1200RS x2 R1100S R1150GSA K1200S K1200GT SE R1200GSA K1300S K1200LT K1600GT Sport and when I was younger I spent quite a bit of time on my Dad's R65 and R100RS and a friend of the family loaned me his R60 when a bike of mine got stolen.

I've never had any major fault with any of these bikes, but I've had plenty of factory recalls and I have met people that have had issues with final drives and switchgear. 

The K1600GT Sport was also dull (despite all the power) it runs very lean and those cats (one on each side on the 6-2 system) get very hot and toast your feet - ok not quite as bad as my 13 Street Glide when it was stock but still bad.  That K1600 performance is blunted by the size of the bike and the economy isn't great either.  Should you decide to modify your K1600 a big difference is that BMW won't sell you the equivalent of the SEPST to hook into your laptop if you decide to ditch the cats and retune... 

Things have changed a lot with BMW - their bikes are often less practical than they used to be because the stylists now have more say than the engineers (less storage other than panniers, panniers now wider than they used to be, smaller tanks, worse protection from the elements).  The dealers have changed too - you turn up with a newer K bike with 20k miles on it to part exchange and they'll tell you its now a high mileage bike and it'll cost a fortune to put it right as they'll probably need to rebuild the front end!

By the way, my favourite BMW from the above list?  It's a tie between the R1100RT and the R100RS.

[geezerglide]

Not quite a current thread but I came across this and couldn't help myself.

I've had K100RS R1100RT K1200RS x2 R1100S R1150GSA K1200S K1200GT SE R1200GSA K1300S K1200LT K1600GT Sport and when I was younger I spent quite a bit of time on my Dad's R65 and R100RS and a friend of the family loaned me his R60 when a bike of mine got stolen.

I've never had any major fault with any of these bikes, but I've had plenty of factory recalls and I have met people that have had issues with final drives and switchgear. 

The K1600GT Sport was also dull (despite all the power) it runs very lean and those cats (one on each side on the 6-2 system) get very hot and toast your feet - ok not quite as bad as my 13 Street Glide when it was stock but still bad.  That K1600 performance is blunted by the size of the bike and the economy isn't great either.  Should you decide to modify your K1600 a big difference is that BMW won't sell you the equivalent of the SEPST to hook into your laptop if you decide to ditch the cats and retune... 

Things have changed a lot with BMW - their bikes are often less practical than they used to be because the stylists now have more say than the engineers (less storage other than panniers, panniers now wider than they used to be, smaller tanks, worse protection from the elements).  The dealers have changed too - you turn up with a newer K bike with 20k miles on it to part exchange and they'll tell you its now a high mileage bike and it'll cost a fortune to put it right as they'll probably need to rebuild the front end!

By the way, my favourite BMW from the above list?  It's a tie between the R1100RT and the R100RS.

How true, a lot of BMw riders I know are now looking to buy the older models BMW bikes.

geezerglide[/color]

[grc]

Sad, but many German vehicles have suffered greatly in quality and reliability in recent years.  Mercedes-Benz and BMW (both automotive and motorcycle) come to mind.  All this proves is that screwing up a good thing is not a process invented by or owned by Americans. 

Jerry

[JONNIEROCK]

Sad to see the lay offs but business is just that.

A lot of reading about how to please the HD customers and that is laughable to me. We are the most  fickle people as a group. Nearly every Harley buyer feels like he has to change a thing or two to make the bike the way he wants it. Take one look at a Kuryaken or JP Cycle catalogue and compare the Harley items to all the other makers of bikes combined and it is a no contest. I do not think this means Harleys are junk but more likely that no one is satisfied till he gobs it up.

How many buy a Fiord or Chevy and have to spend on and on? Are you likely to modify all your other possessions like you do the Harley?

I believe there is no way in hell that the Moco could set a program that would satisfy even the majority of buyers such that they would not have to buy any more goodies for the bikes. Harley Davidsons are quite a unique commodity and possibly nothing else is modified after purchase as much. Whole companies and many families make a living off of the idea that no Harley is good enough, for me, off the show room.

     I've Always thought the same, and wondered am I the only one. I've had 10 touring bikes and presently have a 12 CVO Roadglide and a 14 Ultra Limited. All I do is put on a set of pipes, then ride a pile of miles. I'm very happy with riding a stock harley.
                               Jonnierock

[geezerglide]

Sad, but many German vehicles have suffered greatly in quality and reliability in recent years.  Mercedes-Benz and BMW (both automotive and motorcycle) come to mind.  All this proves is that screwing up a good thing is not a process invented by or owned by Americans. 

Jerry

Jerry,

I agree with, ever since the reunification of the two Germanys, and having to use some of the East German workers in different manufacturing facilities, and those workers who used to work in previous plants that did not put too much emphasis on quality control has gone down hill. Management is also to blame as they probably let a lot of issues slide rather than get into a Political Correct battle of admitting to having an inferior work force.

My .02 cents worth

geezerglide

[Cat Eye]

One thing is for sure is that there should be a layoffs at Gunslinger Custom Paint.

Does anyone know how    is doing?

I know that last Dec the Chieftian were over sold



 

[FLSTFI Dave]

Layoffs, and then yesterday I received a HD promotion in the mail offering 3.99% financing.  I can't ever recall their rate being this low.  Indicative of lagging sales?

Could also be to be competitive with Credit Unions and banks offering low rates.  Could also be lagging sales, most likely both.

Why are sales lagging?  Poor economy, and wage stagnation.  Cost of products and services have been going up much faster than wages in the last 6 to 8 years.  Could also be with housing values down, less equity in home to use for purchases.

[Royalroadie]

Well it looks like Indian polaris had a good first qtr.

This was posted on cycle worlds web site.




Motorcycle Sales:
Motorcycle sales increased 74 percent in the 2015 first quarter to $137.4 million.  All three brands, Victory, Indian Motorcycle® and Slingshot, increased sales in the first quarter.  Consumer retail demand for Victory and Indian Motorcycles during the 2015 first quarter, was up nearly 40 percent over last year’s first quarter, driven primarily by strong Indian Motorcycle retail sales, while first quarter North American industry heavyweight cruiser and touring motorcycle retail sales were up low-single digits percent from 2014.  Slingshot retail sales were ahead of expectations.  All three brands added to their product portfolios during the quarter with Indian Motorcycle introducing the Indian Chief Dark Horse, which is built upon the successful and award-winning Indian Chief® platform with only a flash of chrome and a heavy dose of matte black paint; Victory showcased the new Magnum X-1, a new bagger with a 200-watt, 10 speaker audio system and custom factory paint; and Slingshot adding a limited edition model packed with head-turning features, including striking Nuclear Sunset Orange coloring, dual windscreens and an interior LED lighting package.  Sales of Polaris motorcycles outside of North America decreased 12 percent in the first quarter of 2015 as compared to a year ago due to the currency impact of a strengthening U.S. dollar.
Global Adjacent Markets’ sales increased seven percent to $65.4 million compared to the first quarter of 2014.  The Company’s government/military group experienced double digit percent sales growth during the 2015 first quarter. Work and Transportation (“W&T”) group sales increased mid-single digits percent during the 2015 first quarter with North American W&T sales increasing double digits percent while W&T outside North America declined partly resulting from lower Aixam sales in EMEA due to the impact of negative currencies.
Parts, Garments and Accessories (“PG&A”) sales increased 12 percent during the first quarter 2015 to $170.6 million compared to the same period last year.  The Company experienced sales increases in ORV, Motorcycles and Global Adjacent Markets driven by continued product innovation, increased integration of accessories, improved product availability and an ongoing focus on apparel sales through the Klim business, offset somewhat by weak snowmobile parts sales due to poor snowfall levels in key riding areas during the 2015 first quarter.

[SDCVO]

HD sold almost half (45%) of every MC sold and every other brand shared rest. As far as branded clothes and accessories the number goes completely "tilt" in HD's favor. Old, lousy technology in motor, suspension, most everything else but I still personally cant find anything else that I can get passionate about. Wish i could and I keep looking (spent an hour at the Ducati store last week) but I just keep reluctantly going back to Harley with as the numbers show, most other people. In San Diego the Harley dealer also owns the Indian dealer and I had a conversation with them a couple of weeks ago and they said they will sell more bikes in one weekend at either of their 2 Harley locations than they will in an entire month at their Indian store. They were very disappointed in their Indian store performance as obviously they don't do well in their service dept. as there are not many Indians on the road yet and feel the sales is not even close to what Polaris promised them when they committed to becoming a dealer and making the investment to open the first store in San Diego. They offered me a incredible deal to buy one as I have been a good Harley customer of theirs for years and they were reaching out to their customer base to give try and give themselves a "shot in the arm" and I just didnt care for them. Personal choice for sure but when you see stories about huge year over year increases for Indian or any other "slow moving" brand or model, doesnt really mean that much when the bar is set so low.
Just my opinion on a rainy night in San Diego..

[Royalroadie]

Yes  I am aware of the disparity in the numbers.  But Polaris is coming and in 5 -7 years they will be a factor. I was at the roll out at strugis and I have to say I was impressed.  Not enough to buy one but they have done a great job with the brand so far.   I can remember when foreign cars where not a factor in America.  The first honda was a POS, but in a short time they became very competitive.  I still prefer my street glide over the Indians but they have the beginnings of a very viable product line.  Competition is good for the market in forcing everyone to up their game.  As we are getting older the market is going to shrink and to  have a second player going after the business Harley is going to have to make better products or suffer the consequences.  I truly believe the Indian motor is a much better built motor in terms of reliability.   As for looks they have a ways to go.  Harley has got to get off their a$$ and start making better, more reliable motors along with better pricing if they are going to stay a leader.

[grc]

Could also be to be competitive with Credit Unions and banks offering low rates.  Could also be lagging sales, most likely both.

Why are sales lagging?  Poor economy, and wage stagnation.  Cost of products and services have been going up much faster than wages in the last 6 to 8 years.  Could also be with housing values down, less equity in home to use for purchases.

Yup.  Sadly the "recovery" has been slanted heavily toward the top ten percent, and everyone else has gone backward.  A huge number of the bikes sold during the record sales years for Harley were bought by Joe Sixpack and his co-workers.  Many of those folks no longer have the means or the credit to buy high priced Harley's.  Prices for everything, no matter what the slanted numbers from Washington say, have increased dramatically, but incomes are down and many of the tens of millions who lost jobs back in 2008/2009 still haven't found work, or are working for less than half of what they earned before the Great Recession.  The real unemployment number is closer to three times the "official" laundered number, and the "official" number for the middle class is shrinking.  In other words, the rich have gotten much richer, and everyone else has gotten poorer.  That situation doesn't bode well for a lot more than Harley and the motorcycle industry.

Jerry

[JCZ]

Sad, but many German vehicles have suffered greatly in quality and reliability in recent years.  Mercedes-Benz and BMW (both automotive and motorcycle) come to mind.  All this proves is that screwing up a good thing is not a process invented by or owned by Americans. 

Jerry

I agree Jerry.  Screwing up a good thing invented by CEOs whose only goal is the almighty profit margin while quality and product pride fall far behind.