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[Eagle Eye]

It's taken me a lifetime to figure out that what other people do is none of my business.

Agreed, until the fact they have no business operating heavy machinery has an effect on my, or a loved one's life.   

[AZ Sparky]

SHOULD anyone/everyone purchase and ride?
People SHOULD have enough sense to know what they can and can't handle - but we all know not everyone does.

So, what are we to do?

They are not a real risk to injurying anyone other than themselves - honestly, how bad are the injuries to the car's occupants in a car-vs-motorcycle meeting?
Have you EVER seen a motorcycle-vs-motorcycle collision under normal day-to-day riding circumstances? Those can't happen very often.
Ever seen a pedestrian hit by a motorcycle? Probably not.

So, the individual is at physical risk to themselves - no one else.

Property damage? Sure, there might be some - but it's STUFF, it CAN be replaced/repaired.

Is it really worth it to keep going down that road of protecting someone from themselves?

Aren't mandatory seatbelt and helmet laws enough of an assault against our personal liberties?

Besides, the gene pool can use a little chlorine from time to time...
(for clarification I am only referring to the individual rider that doesn't have enough sense to get off the ride - like I said, they're only a real danger to themselves - IMHO)

[dlaws01]

PASN YU, you have my vote it the federal government ever creates a biker's skill nazi.   

[grc]

SHOULD anyone/everyone purchase and ride?
People SHOULD have enough sense to know what they can and can't handle - but we all know not everyone does.

So, what are we to do?

They are not a real risk to injurying anyone other than themselves - honestly, how bad are the injuries to the car's occupants in a car-vs-motorcycle meeting?
Have you EVER seen a motorcycle-vs-motorcycle collision under normal day-to-day riding circumstances? Those can't happen very often.
Ever seen a pedestrian hit by a motorcycle? Probably not.

So, the individual is at physical risk to themselves - no one else.

Property damage? Sure, there might be some - but it's STUFF, it CAN be replaced/repaired.

Is it really worth it to keep going down that road of protecting someone from themselves?

Aren't mandatory seatbelt and helmet laws enough of an assault against our personal liberties?

Besides, the gene pool can use a little chlorine from time to time...
(for clarification I am only referring to the individual rider that doesn't have enough sense to get off the ride - like I said, they're only a real danger to themselves - IMHO)

Obviously you haven't read many news reports about bike to bike crashes, but I have and I've also seen the aftermath of a couple such crashes in person.  Just had a nasty one in the news this past summer as a matter of fact, and I believe we wound up with four or five dead.

This has nothing to do with protecting an incompetent from himself, and everything to do with protecting the rest of us from him.  Do you really think all the laws that require things like driver's licenses for cars, certifications for pilots and surgeons, etc. are in place to protect them?  Not hardly.

If someone has no clue about how to ride, or is physically or mentally incapable of riding safely, then yes indeed he is a danger to the public and shouldn't be allowed to ride on public property.  If he wants to buy a few acres and make his own track, more power to him.  But I don't want him riding near me, or running down some little old lady at a crossing because he can't control his bike and come to a safe stop, or T-boning a family in a minivan at 150 mph and killing all the occupants (yes this is also a real example). 

For those who always like to preach about all those supposed inalienable rights to do as they please, let me suggest that the next time they need surgery they get the guy who dropped out of high school but has since watched every episode of ER and MASH 10 times so obviously he knows everything he needs to know to perform your bypass.  After all, he has an inalienable right to be what he wants to be, qualified or not.  Medical licenses are just an infringement on his rights.


Jerry

[Eagle Eye]

Well said Jerry.  I agree wholeheartedly. 
I've known several over the years who otherwise decent people, ended up dead trying to outrun the police or just going too fast for the conditions.  And there are many types of victims.  How about a family Left behind including children?  Moms, Dads?   
When I was younger, I was at least smart enough to know the equipment and my limitations.  We had no helmet laws until the 70s.  I was fortunate enough to have the aptitude to teach myself, took classes, watched films and read tons of books.  I don't believe every swinging fool is able to control one of these heavy machines.  That would be naive.  Let's hope they or someone with influence around them talks sense into their heads. 

In the mean time, it's not hard to tell em when you see em.  Usually their wearing tennis shoes, wearing shorts and flying down the road at twice the speed limit.  It's only a matter of time before they are organ donors.  An I hate to hear of it every time.    Here in the SF Bay Area, we hear of one or two a day, taken out in traffic.  While a few may be the direct result of unfortunate and unavoidable circumstances, there are many who push the limits too often at the wrong times.  These split lanes in traffic going over 70 MPH as if they are standing still.  It is only a matter of time before they too are culled out due to the process of Darwin's theory of "Natural Selection".  Hopefully, they don't take one of us with them....

[2018_FLTRXSE]

There are those that are RIDERS.. and there are those that are OWNERS...

yup.. a dealership will sell anyone anything. No issues with that... and yes, have watched guys crash in the parking lot, into employees cars, the shop truck, etc.

I've seen new bikes delivered to the new owner by trailer... then be back at the shop the next week with crash damage and less than 100 miles.... (one had 3 miles on it.. normal delivery miles here is 2)

Some of us are born with the ability to ride.. and some need to be taught... others, cant be taught.

I tell everyone to take the MSF course, and see how they like it.... THEN, if they are still interested, buy a 250 rebel or 250 nighthawk and ride the crap out of it until they are 100 % comfortable and confident on it... then and only then, decide what you want next...

It took my wife about 6 months of Nighthawk riding for her to say OK.. let me try the Dyna... and never looked back. Now.. she's on a Road King Classic and loves it. The other day she got on my CVO and stood it up. Her biggest complaint is its a top heavy PIG (there was about #20 of crap in the tour-pak) and the clutch was stiff... Oh well.. she cant ride it...

[JCZ]

Well said Jerry.  I agree wholeheartedly.  
I've known several over the years who otherwise decent people, ended up dead trying to outrun the police or just going too fast for the conditions.  And there are many types of victims.  How about a family Left behind including children?  Moms, Dads?    
When I was younger, I was at least smart enough to know the equipment and my limitations.  We had no helmet laws until the 70s.  I was fortunate enough to have the aptitude to teach myself, took classes, watched films and read tons of books.  I don't believe every swinging fool is able to control one of these heavy machines.  That would be naive.  Let's hope they or someone with influence around them talks sense into their heads.  

In the mean time, it's not hard to tell em when you see em.  Usually their wearing tennis shoes, wearing shorts and flying down the road at twice the speed limit.  It's only a matter of time before they are organ donors.  An I hate to hear of it every time.    Here in the SF Bay Area, we hear of one or two a day, taken out in traffic.  While a few may be the direct result of unfortunate and unavoidable circumstances, there are many who push the limits too often at the wrong times.  These split lanes in traffic going over 70 MPH as if they are standing still.  It is only a matter of time before they too are culled out due to the process of Darwin's theory of "Natural Selection".  Hopefully, they don't take one of us with them....

Where was that?

I was riding in the 70s also......so can't trust my memory 100% but I believe, if my memory serves me right, that Dick Floyd didn't get that helmet bill passed, after many attempts, until 1992.  
By the way, Dick Floyd passed away at 80 yrs. old, right here in Sacramento.  Of course, no loss as far as AMA, MMA or ABATE was concerned.

[TN]

while there has been some brutal comments here in regard to the OP's concern. I think he has gotten some really great info and insight to the trials and tribulations that come along with the immense responsibilities of owning and riding a big twin on public roads. I hope he is successful in obtaining the confidence and skills it takes to do so.



Good Luck


TN

[PASN YU]

Thanks for the replies from everyone. I appreciate everyones honest feedback. Some agree and some don't with my views and that's ok. That's what makes this country great. 

TN,

I am comfortable with my riding abilities but I'm still cautious every time I ride. I've got a few miles under my belt because I practice regularly. We all should practice regularly, no matter how many miles you've ridden. The intent here was not to boost my confidence but rather to get some opinions on how everyone here feels about that responsibility and privilege you spoke of - operating a motorcycle on a public road. (And to figure out who not to have beers with  ... JK)

[2018_FLTRXSE]

LOL... never drink and ride.. its hard to not spill your beer.

Drink... Then Ride... then drink some more...   


 

[Eagle Eye]

Where was that?

I was riding in the 70s also......so can't trust my memory 100% but I believe, if my memory serves me right, that Dick Floyd didn't get that helmet bill passed, after many attempts, until 1992.  
By the way, Dick Floyd passed away at 80 yrs. old, right here in Sacramento.  Of course, no loss as far as AMA, MMA or ABATE was concerned.

Actually, I lived in So Cal up to '72 ( I rode dirt bikes at the time - with no headgear), then Oahu until '77 (No headgear on my chopper), then moved to Florida, no headgear for over 21.  I traveled as a consulting Engineer so we moved a lot back then.  I moved to Georgia in '85, so that is where I recall having to wear one for the first time.  We didn't have a helmet law in Florida at that time, but recall the push in Cal back in the early 70s.  Didn't realize it took so long to get the law passed...'92, whew. Bet that ticked off a lot of folks.  Thanks for tweaking my memories.  I hadn't thought much about it in a while.   I moved back to Cal in 2000. 

Drinking and riding sounds like another string...bet that would be a lively discussion. 

[JCZ]

Actually, I lived in So Cal up to '72 ( I rode dirt bikes at the time - with no headgear), then Oahu until '77 (No headgear on my chopper), then moved to Florida, no headgear for over 21.  I traveled as a consulting Engineer so we moved a lot back then.  I moved to Georgia in '85, so that is where I recall having to wear one for the first time.  We didn't have a helmet law in Florida at that time, but recall the push in Cal back in the early 70s.  Didn't realize it took so long to get the law passed...'92, whew. Bet that ticked off a lot of folks.  Thanks for tweaking my memories.  I hadn't thought much about it in a while.  I moved back to Cal in 2000.  

Drinking and riding sounds like another string...bet that would be a lively discussion.  

I've known a few over the years that it's turned into a dead discussion.  But they "only had a couple".

By the way, very creative photo shopping.

[Arwyn]

I have personally seen some folks that shouldn't be allowed to ride.

Nitwit #1- 21 year old college kid, riding home from class in shorts, tank top, flip flops, but he WAS wearing a helmet!    Super-genius decided that it was cool to gun his crotch rocket and pop wheelies in the middle of traffic. 40 mph two lane road in a major residential area. After two, he pulled a third, but twisted the bars on the way down, and immediately started a nasty snake. Only stopped when he slid up into the curb, he kept the bike up, but lost a flip flop and skinned the hell out of the bottom of his foot. Seat of the bike is still missing, genius still walking funny. Worse yet, he has done this before, and dropped the bike twice, with missing lower fairing sections on the bike that he is too poor to replace.

Nitwit #2- Group of Hayabusa jockeys were tearing down Hwy 635 in Dallas on a Saturday night. Traffic is running 65 to 70. Said group of rocket scientists decided to start pulling wheelies in traffic. 635 is always PACKED with cars. As soon as I saw the oxygen thieves attempting to temp fate, I changed lanes, so I wasn't immediately behind them. Not but a minute later, one of them pops a wheelie, goes vertical and drops the bike in the left lane. Said genius was VERY lucky, he slid off onto the left shoulder along with the bike, which hit the concrete median. Bike was trashed, idiot boy lost some skin and cracked a shin.

Much as I DONT want Uncle Sugar getting involved in regulating our lives, I have to agree that kids on 160+ HP bikes is just a stupid risk. Only 1 guy in 10,000 can ride a bike like that to its theoretical limits. Most average 20ish riders don't have the skills, experience or JUDGMENT to really operate a bike like that in public.

Ironically, in a lot of cars, cash limits the amount of stupidity these guys can get into. While there are a lot of cars that will run north of 400+ horsepower, they tend to price themselves out of the "young kid" market. Hot rodding their rice burners costs money, and shrinks the market down considerably. The high performing sport bikes are CHEAP, and most kids pick them up used for under 10K.

I think EVERYONE that rides should have to take the rider safety class. Let them get some time and experience on bikes before you start having them jump onto monsters they can barely handle. That saves them (and us) from the unpleasant consequences of too much speed + too much testosterone + too little judgment.

[North Georgia Hawg]

 

NGH, you're right. There are way too many people out there that think they should be nudists that really shouldn't. 

All you have to do is visit a nudist park, and THAT becomes obvious!

I am all for better testing/licensing of motorcyclists.  I just don't trust the government to get it done in a quality, cost-effective manner. Private enterprises could get the job done much more effectively, I think.

I have never had any issue with controlling any motorcycle - it just always came naturally to me. But then I'm a drummer, too. Maybe that "coordinated independence" thing I got taught in my drum lessons is the trick!

When my wife took the MSF course to get her license in Feb 2008, on the COLDEST weekend of the entire YEAR, she came home saying there was a young lady in her class who crashed the little Honda Rebel 250 they used in the class TWICE. Needless to say, she didn't pass the course, and didn't get her certificate to get her MC license. My wife passed with flying colors, and now rides Bertha, our '95 FLHTP, and loves it. She says it's much easier to ride than the much-smaller V-Star 1100 Classic she rode previously... so the mount does matter..

[C2CRider]

Damn, a poster with balls.  I like this guy already!  Beers on me!    Agree 100%, but many should not vote or breed either... yet somehow between Jerry Springer and Maury they seem to do both!