www.CVOHARLEY.com
CVO Technical => Drive Train => Topic started by: Chains on February 13, 2017, 04:13:29 PM
-
Found this to be interesting, just saw a brochure at the local dealer
https://www.yelvingtonusa.com/products/mechanical-reverse
-
Nothing on the website to say for sure but can't help but be concerned that with all the mechanicals in the pulley that the "cush" of the cush drive is now lost. More stress on the primary and the crank on several year models of bikes that were already at their limit might not be a good thing.
-
I don't see a cutaway but I can envision that this is a pretty cool setup incorporating a planetary gear train along with an impressively compact brake or engagement mechanism. It also appears that the Cush drive is completely intact.
I went back and watched some of their videos. Damned impressive set up. They have a shift dog (shuttle) that locks the sun and planet gears together (normal drive) or slides to lock the planet to the swing arm and let's the sun free to travel backwards (reverse)
Pretty damned slick
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
-
I will be installing one of these soon and do a report on it when its done.
-
I need to get a look on the computer with a decent sized monitor rather than the damned phone. Know someone locally that would be very interested it is all that one might hope.
-
I've been looking at it for a while, and indeed it does look impressive. However, at 2 grand, I won't be investing. :-(
-
I will be installing one of these soon and do a report on it when its done.
Eagerly awaiting a full report as I've considered it myself. Something that can be moved from bike to bike down the road easily as compared to other options.
-
I've been looking at it for a while, and indeed it does look impressive. However, at 2 grand, I won't be investing. :-(
Cheaper than other alternatives out there right now. The Baker unit is cheaper until you consider install fees if you can't do it yourself and even if you can do the install, they're saying 8-9 hours labor for an experienced tech.
-
Cheaper than other alternatives out there right now. The Baker unit is cheaper until you consider install fees if you can't do it yourself and even if you can do the install, they're saying 8-9 hours labor for an experienced tech.
It's certainly cheaper than alternatives, but I see it as all these companies making aftermarket stuff know that HD charges stupid amounts for the bikes and accessories, making obscene profits, so they think they can do the same. A kind of "if he can afford a Harley, we can charge big bucks" attitude. If the price was closer to what it must cost to manufacture, with a sensible profit margin, they'd sell ten times as many.
Only potential drawback I noted with the device is the air elbow on the axle is going to have a problem with clearance on some mufflers.
-
It's certainly cheaper than alternatives, but I see it as all these companies making aftermarket stuff know that HD charges stupid amounts for the bikes and accessories, making obscene profits, so they think they can do the same. A kind of "if he can afford a Harley, we can charge big bucks" attitude. If the price was closer to what it must cost to manufacture, with a sensible profit margin, they'd sell ten times as many.
Only potential drawback I noted with the device is the air elbow on the axle is going to have a problem with clearance on some mufflers.
Very true, but on the other hand you have to look at the people who keep handing over the huge piles of cash for all the various aftermarket items at wildly inflated prices. As long as those kinds of people exist and continue to spend, these companies will continue to charge what the market will bear. I assume a fair amount of time and expense went into the design and testing of this particular product, as opposed to some of the stuff we see that charges ridiculous prices for simple basic stuff, so I'd expect the initial pricing to be high enough to quickly recoup the development costs. At some point, though, if they want to increase volume they will have to alter their pricing model. Notice they've already dropped the price by $200 btw. There are only so many Harley riders out there willing to spend $2k for something that doesn't involve bling or horsepower.
JMHO - Jerry
-
How embarrassing would it be to forget to press the button and back into a car, or a building, or whatever?
-
Very true, but on the other hand you have to look at the people who keep handing over the huge piles of cash for all the various aftermarket items at wildly inflated prices. As long as those kinds of people exist and continue to spend, these companies will continue to charge what the market will bear. I assume a fair amount of time and expense went into the design and testing of this particular product, as opposed to some of the stuff we see that charges ridiculous prices for simple basic stuff, so I'd expect the initial pricing to be high enough to quickly recoup the development costs. At some point, though, if they want to increase volume they will have to alter their pricing model. Notice they've already dropped the price by $200 btw. There are only so many Harley riders out there willing to spend $2k for something that doesn't involve bling or horsepower.
JMHO - Jerry
Don't forget warranty / support Co$t$, a significant % for small entities... Think about how much his Compensator attempt affected Bert's bottom line??
As far as this widget goes, it will be a long, long time before I would trust it :nervous: any failure would be likely to lock up the rear wheel :nervous:
-
I really like the look of it and can certainly appreciate the engineering that went into it. I'm actually doing one of those "why didn't *I* think of this" things. The real question revolves around materials and build quality. They've built this within the very limited confines of the stock pulley thickness plus the 1/4" or so of the old spacer. I'm here to say this: Holy Crap, there isn't much room there to create three layers of independently movable components plus the needed bearings and retain something close to the expected strength and durability. I'm going to assume that it's necessarily made of *steel* for sufficient strength of these thin pieces. So, I would also assume that the negatives on this would appear to be 1. cost 2. weight. 3. durability but damn, it looks like a great idea if #3 proves sufficient.
-
Very true, but on the other hand you have to look at the people who keep handing over the huge piles of cash for all the various aftermarket items at wildly inflated prices. As long as those kinds of people exist and continue to spend, these companies will continue to charge what the market will bear. I assume a fair amount of time and expense went into the design and testing of this particular product, as opposed to some of the stuff we see that charges ridiculous prices for simple basic stuff, so I'd expect the initial pricing to be high enough to quickly recoup the development costs. At some point, though, if they want to increase volume they will have to alter their pricing model. Notice they've already dropped the price by $200 btw. There are only so many Harley riders out there willing to spend $2k for something that doesn't involve bling or horsepower.
JMHO - Jerry
Absolutely correct, Jerry.
-
What is the fail safe that prevents the shuttle from moving out of place while in the drive mode? Just wondering because anything mechanical can and usually will fail.
-
What is the fail safe that prevents the shuttle from moving out of place while in the drive mode? Just wondering because anything mechanical can and usually will fail.
A video on their site called "411" Explains the operation; a 'shuttle gear' or shift dog is moved inboard for normal and outboard for reverse. That dog is moved by an pneumatic piston in the left end of the axle. The air is provided by a small onboard compressor and (presumably) a solenoid which can mount in a saddlebag. The unit has a small electronic control board and plugs into the CANBUS system. The controller links to the bike's ECM and this controls operation based on neutral selection and stationary position.
That much is in their video.
If I could be allowed to *speculate*... I would bet that there is a spring in the axle that holds the piston in Normal position and that the reverse can only happen with air pressure applied. This would provide a "fail safe" such that if the system for control were to die, it would mechanically "fail" into Normal mode and you could ride on...but without Reverse available.
-
A video on their site called "411" Explains the operation; a 'shuttle gear' or shift dog is moved inboard for normal and outboard for reverse. That dog is moved by an pneumatic piston in the left end of the axle. The air is provided by a small onboard compressor and (presumably) a solenoid which can mount in a saddlebag. The unit has a small electronic control board and plugs into the CANBUS system. The controller links to the bike's ECM and this controls operation based on neutral selection and stationary position.
That much is in their video.
If I could be allowed to *speculate*... I would bet that there is a spring in the axle that holds the piston in Normal position and that the reverse can only happen with air pressure applied. This would provide a "fail safe" such that if the system for control were to die, it would mechanically "fail" into Normal mode and you could ride on...but without Reverse available.
....or, you could just watch where/how you park and save $2,000..... :2vrolijk_21:
-
....or, you could just watch where/how you park and save $2,000..... :2vrolijk_21:
That's my personal plan. Know one rider locally though for whom backing on even level surface can be a trial anymore though. He's strongly consider some reverse option.
-
Six reverse gears could be interesting . Also a good anti-theft device
-
I can imagine that someone with a sidehack could find this a huge help once in a while.
-
That's my personal plan. Know one rider locally though for whom backing on even level surface can be a trial anymore though. He's strongly consider some reverse option.
Agreed....
-
I certainly agree that this is an ingenious device which offers a solution and while not cheap by any means is less expensive than other options. But imo it is complicated in that tire changes will be more involved and the electronics and pneumatics necessary to activate and deactivate appear to be more involved that what I would want to contend with. And even if as reported by MrSurly in a previous post there is a spring to keep it engaged in drive . . . well springs can (and do) break. Like Twolane and Haird I think I'll just be very cautious about where I park.
On the several occasions where I have gotten myself into a bind and needed a bit of assistance in backing the beast my lovely co-rider has been more than willing to dismount and give a bit of a push. Problem solved. :2vrolijk_21:
-
"Anywhere and everywhere" is a line of BS. We've had bikes pretty much sunk to the bags in mud a few times and there's no way this thing would have helped.
-
"Anywhere and everywhere" is a line of BS. We've had bikes pretty much sunk to the bags in mud a few times and there's no way this thing would have helped.
That's sort of a silly argument to make, isn't it? I didn't see on their site where they claimed it was a mud bog device. I think their reference to wet grass and mud etc was talking about the difficulty of pushing the bike backwards due to your FEET lacking traction and having this gadget would make foot traction not matter, not that the bike would become a tractor.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
-
That's sort of a silly argument to make, isn't it? I didn't see on their site where they claimed it was a mud bog device. I think their reference to wet grass and mud etc was talking about the difficulty of pushing the bike backwards due to your FEET lacking traction and having this gadget would make foot traction not matter, not that the bike would become a tractor.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Oh no doubt it won't, but to me that wording sounds like marketing spew from someone who's never ridden and then that makes me think of what else might they have exaggerated.
-
I certainly agree that this is an ingenious device which offers a solution and while not cheap by any means is less expensive than other options. But imo it is complicated in that tire changes will be more involved and the electronics and pneumatics necessary to activate and deactivate appear to be more involved that what I would want to contend with. And even if as reported by MrSurly in a previous post there is a spring to keep it engaged in drive . . . well springs can (and do) break. Like Twolane and Haird I think I'll just be very cautious about where I park.
On the several occasions where I have gotten myself into a bind and needed a bit of assistance in backing the beast my lovely co-rider has been more than willing to dismount and give a bit of a push. Problem solved. :2vrolijk_21:
Yea Jerry, My reverse as well :2vrolijk_21:
-
Since my "reverse" got tired of riding and it would probably cost ten times as much to have my legs broken and stretched, I might look into it. I ride a lot of country roads and gravel parking lots where backing up or in is the only solution. $2000 for reverse or $2000 for a painted CVO saddle bag bottom to replace the one I scratch when I slip and fall, what's the difference....
-
$2000 for reverse or $2000 for a painted CVO saddle bag bottom to replace the one I scratch when I slip and fall, what's the difference....
huge difference. presumably, the $2k spent for the reverse would be a one time deal. the $2k for the saddlebag bottom? well, you could spend it, then mount it, slip and fall and have to spend it again :'(
-
huge difference. presumably, the $2k spent for the reverse would be a one time deal. the $2k for the saddlebag bottom? well, you could spend it, then mount it, slip and fall and have to spend it again :'(
AND... the pulley could migrate to your next bike, or be sold
-
You both are absolutely correct, in my own strange sense of humor, I was pointing out that the potential damage caused by someone falling over while backing up, makes $2000 for product well worth the investment. Not to mention, these short little nubs of mine are getting old, weak and lazy and I might save myself from a heart attack pushing the bike backwards.
-
yep, I caught your thinking :orange:
-
Well, I know this is an old thread but thought I’d do an update on it. It’s taken a while to use up my rear tire and have been thinking about doing the reverse pulley at the same time, so I pulled the trigger a couple weeks ago, having it installed by my local indie before I rode up to eureka springs on vacation. Everyone that’s been there knows there are potential traps everywhere for a
old, short legged or otherwise challenged rider and I used the reverse at least once a day every day and it worked flawlessly. No more slipping and sliding or trying to push down the front shocks while holding the brakes to get momentum to move backwards or yelling for help. The install wasn’t quite as quick and easy as the YouTube shows but the adjustments were common sense and only took a few extra minutes to adjust. Overall I’d tell everyone to get one, you won’t be sorry.
-
I have talked with the folks at Yelvington several times, they are about a half hour from my house. One of the guys who works there/installs at events was formally the parts manager for the Harley dealer who closed in Clearwater Florida. He is a good, honest guy and the owner seems same way. Not a endorsement for the product but I know they are selling a lot of them. They also have other stuff, front and rear Street Glide tie-down brackets and soon new Road Glide front tie-down brackets. I suggest anyone interested give them a call they will spend time with you either on the phone or in person.
-
I too have thought about the Yelvington USA Mechanical Reverse Pulley (M.R.P.), but I've converted my front drive pulley to a 30t from the stock 32t. In doing that I modified my swingarm with .25" thick gussets around the rear and bottom of the swingarm axle slot.
In watching the install video on YouTube, the left side mounting block will most definitely interfere with the welded on gussets. So I guess I'm out of the running for a new MRP.
Also I would want to make very sure that my Super Shox 14" lower mounts do not interfere with the left side MRP axle mount. It just looks very close, but I have not paid a lot of attention to the Super Shox mounting.
Still think it's a good idea.
Do they have a warning beeper when the ACC switch is engaged for reverse? If one backs into a parking spot and then partakes of some bubbly, when getting ready to leave you may be in for a shock if you take off in reverse... :)
-
Yes, there are two buzzers that are mountable under the seat. They are very loud and you can hear them over the engine. I suppose there are two in case one goes out the other still works until the dead one can be replaced. I found them extremely annoying and cut them out of the line and spliced the wires together with no issues. You still have the light on the button lit when it’s in reverse and if you can’t remember you just backed up two seconds ago you shouldn’t be riding anyway.
-
I watched the video on them clever idea pricey bit of kit. What gets me is what if something few up into the teeth or just wear and tear that's a chunk of change to replace. I was going to go with a tranny reverse kit when I had a not so good of a knee but after some work on it it's doing good now,
I'd still would go for the tranny reverse kit it's not as pricey and not exposed to damage like the (M.R.P) also the limited space in the saddlebags is not taken up by a pump. Nope it don't work for me
-
The Yelvington reverse is a closed unit, not really any way to ingest foreign objects in the gears. Labor charges are much higher on the Baker unit so that makes it more expensive unless you do your own work. The pump does take up a little space in the saddle bag, but much less than I thought going in. It is easy to move from bike to bike when trading. The only down-side I have found so far is rear tire changes are a little more labor intensive.
-
The choice between the two options depends a lot on whether or not you tend to trade in your bikes often. If you plan to keep it forever then the $1400 plus 10-12 hours labor might be the better choice. Otherwise, the mrp purchased once and 3 hours labor for each new bike purchase beats the crap out of the Baker unit.
For me personally, I keep them a few years then, I instantly fall in love with a new one the day after the dealer meeting,while my wife is trying to tackle me before I can run to buy a new one.