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CVO Technical => Milwaukee-Eight => Topic started by: skratch on April 17, 2018, 03:47:09 AM
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see where hd has new (again) tappets. any real life experience with them?
https://www.harley-davidson.com/store/screamin-eagle-tappets-18572-13
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With the history regarding the MoCo lifters, Stock or SE ones.
I'll keep replacing my Rig with the proven aftermarket lifters.
YB
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With the history regarding the MoCo lifters, Stock or SE ones.
I'll keep replacing my Rig with the proven aftermarket lifters.
YB
But these new lifters have "SE" laser etched on them....that alone should eliminate any doubt as to their reliability.... ;D :huepfenjump3: :nervous: :huepfenlol2: :bananarock: :2vrolijk_21:
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They aren't new, they were standard equipment on 2013 and later TC110 engines as well as being listed in the SE catalog. The bearings for the rollers were beefed up in response to all the roller failures in the 110's, the rest of the lifter appears to be the same old "C" level internals as best I can tell. If you're looking for better and more reliable lifters, you might want to check out the aftermarket. There are many threads around here concerning the various choices. Btw, these lifters were just another example of Harley band-aids that don't actually fix the problem but might improve the failure rate somewhat. There have been plenty of reports of failures on 2013 and later TC110's with these lifters.
Jerry
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But these new lifters have "SE" laser etched on them....that alone should eliminate any doubt as to their reliability.... ;D :huepfenjump3: :nervous: :huepfenlol2: :bananarock: :2vrolijk_21:
Exactly.... :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:
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18572-07 (now obsolete and superceded by these) are the SE version with beefed up roller needles of the old "B" lifters and are really good but getting difficult to find.
I'd still take these 18572-13s over the standard "C" lifters as it's the rollers and not plungers/internals that typically fail.
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Until HD starts rebranding S&S premium lifters as their own. I am not interested.
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The 18572-07 is very similar to the current S&S premium (without travel limiters), although the S&S might not have the larger needle bearings of the SE. From what I understand, S&S, like Fueling and others, is not making these lifters (Delphi is).
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Until HD starts rebranding S&S premium lifters as their own. I am not interested.
I'm pretty sure I've read on here several places that S&S says to change their lifters every 20k miles. Can you verify that?
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I'm pretty sure I've read on here several places that S&S says to change their lifters every 20k miles. Can you verify that?
Only thing I can verify is I have many builds running S&S premiums over 20k and no problems yet. I have no confirmation that you should replace these lifters at 20k. Maybe the other dozen engine builders on this site that use S&S premiums as their go to can weigh in.
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Only thing I can verify is I have many builds running S&S premiums over 20k and no problems yet. I have no confirmation that you should replace these lifters at 20k. Maybe the other dozen engine builders on this site that use S&S premiums as their go to can weigh in.
:2vrolijk_21:
I just spent some time on the S&S site and can't find any mention of it. Figured I'd ask a builder about it. Maybe some others will chime in also.
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When I called S&S about lifters, they told me they recommend replacement every 20,000 miles. Based on all the lifter issues people have, it Spears as though every 20,000 miles makes sense unfortunately.
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The root cause of the failures in the 110's really isn't the lifters themselves, but rather the combination of high lift with abrupt lobe ramps, heavy valves, and high spring pressure. Needle and roller bearings do not tolerate constant pounding very well, so it is best to avoid designing a valve train that beats the snot out of the lifter roller bearings. Kind of like it's not good to severely lug a roller bearing enigne until you pound the crap out of the crank and rod bearings.
Even with the higher capacity roller bearings in the SE lifter, those have also failed in 110's. I assume they lasted a bit longer (the real reason Harley started installing them in 2013 in my humble opinion was to stretch out the average miles to failure to reduce their warranty costs, not because it was an actual fix for the problem), but they eventually fail as well. I'm going to guess that the reason the S&S representative recommended changing his lifters at 20k miles is due to the engine they are being installed in. I'm sure they know the root cause of the stock lifter failures is a valve train system issue, not just the lifters.
JMHO - Jerry
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S&S Premium. No issues whatsoever !
-Tim
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Agree, Jerry. The beefed up SE needle bearings just delay the inevitable.