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CVO Technical => Twin Cam => Topic started by: Unbalanced on October 21, 2005, 08:44:13 PM
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For those interested in possible upgrade paths to your 103 engines:
This week I spent a great deal of time with Dan from Zippers (Owner) about creating packages for our 103's. They are currently in the works and they hope will be generally available by first of the year. They now have some heads to work with for mock up and proof of concept and they expect to have more information for us on them in the near future.
One of the issues has been that our heads on the 103's are vin restricted so they can not just order a set and begin to work on them. They had needed to get some to work with. If anyone has changed from their stock head to another type of head, if you would please pm me.
If you happen to have any interest in a package like this please post a message here and I will continue to post info as it is available. The reason I ask you to post is to get an idea of how many are truely interested or would consider going with a package like this.
For example 103 heads reworked by zippers, Cam, pistons
Thanks in advance,
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I would be interested in what they come up with. I had been looking at cams, and some head work for a winter project. Keep me posted.
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
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Count me in,
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For those interested in possible upgrade paths to your 103 engines:
This week I spent a great deal of time with Dan from Zippers (Owner) about creating packages for our 103's.
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If we get enough people interested on this site I know we can get a group buy. I would like to get some input from others on this site about cams. I know they have a good cam for some ground pounding H/P but how many would be interested in some stump pulling low end TQ?
Dawg, when it happens that there's a cam for our engines and bikes/riding styles that is effective without doing much or anything else to the engine, gives me gear drive, and is designed with torque from 2500-5000 in mind then I'm in. If it's from Zippers I'd even consider making my nearly annual trip to Rockville and taking a day to buzz up there for a package of the cam and their ECM to let them tune it all to the bike.
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Sounds very interesting.........
Will they be developing base maps for Race Tuner and Power Commander user's also ?
Or will they just be creating maps for the ThunderMax compatibility?
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Dawg,
They already have 2 sets of our CVO SE heads, one is for prototype and one for a working model :) .
Fatboy,
I expect they will do maps for their Thundermax ECM as they already have good maps for the stock bike. I do not really see where it would be advantages to them to produce RT or Power Commander Maps, but that is a question for them directly. I am sure once this package is released you will be able to find maps pretty quickly anyhow.
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I'm with 2-lane
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I would be interested in what they come up with. I had been looking at cams, and some head work for a winter project. Keep me posted.
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
Me too; maybe not this winter though, depending on the price.
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I'm Interested
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Also with 2-lane on this one. If Zippers builds it, others will certainly map it for PCIII's and Race Tuners. Maybe in time for Christmas ?? [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
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I'm also very intrested, just have not been able to come up with an ideal package. No one knows anything about the 103 CVO over here.
As for maps why would you not just Dyno tune to suit the package?
Will the package use the stock throttle body?
[smiley=banana.gif] [smiley=jalapeno.gif] [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
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Aussie,
I will ask Dan about that. My guess would be a package for both a stock throttle body and one for a more aggressive package like their 50 or 54 mm throttle body. I will see if he or John will post on the thread since I really cant speak for them.
-harry
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I'm in!!!!!
Jim
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I would be interested.
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Im interested
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Some replies from Dan at Zippers.
Dan is still working out the packages as to what to include or not include in a package.
Some ideas have been the following example and it is an example only.
eg.
Stage 1
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Im interested I contacted Zippers a few month ago about this when the came out with the kit for the 88.
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Harry, are you and Dawg coordinating these contacts with Zippers on this?
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Harry, are you and Dawg coordinating these contacts with Zippers on this?
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Keep the updates coming... I'll be needing something in the spring.... Was out Sunday and caught a couple of buddies with what they thought (and are) were some pretty hot 95" builds in a couple of softails. I got the hole shot and going into third I was maintaining about a bike length on a Softail Custom and pulling away from the Heritage. I know these boys will be going back into the shop over the winter, they're not going to put up with a Bagger getting out front - especially a "Nanner" as one of them puts it.
I love this stuff!!!!
Jim
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As they continue to get closer to a validatable model and answers to any questions that people have from here I will post the feedback as soon as it is available.
They were/are expecting a working model before X-mas. Keep your fingers crossed and hopefully by then we may even get some numbers to compare against.
If you have any ideas or comments you feel they may want to consider please post them or send me a PM and I will be happy to pass it on. Dan generally is taking about a day to reply so its very quick turn around.
-harry
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obviously I am interested in this as well JP [smiley=banana.gif] [smiley=nixweiss.gif] [smiley=banana.gif]
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As they continue to get closer to a validatable model and answers to any questions that people have from here I will post the feedback as soon as it is available.
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DAWG,
I'll say it again, must be nice to get the scoop directly from the man himself... You are a lucky man - not only are you close enought to have face to face conversations and also be the first on your block...
Since your ride will be there al winter, should be plenty of time to shake out the piston combo.
Jim
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DAWG,
I'll say it again, must be nice to get the scoop directly from the man himself... You are a lucky man - not only are you close enought to have face to face conversations and also be the first on your block...
Since your ride will be there al winter, should be plenty of time to shake out the piston combo.
Jim
Jim I don't know that the bike will be there all winter,but if they need it they got it!!!!!! We have talked about the pistons but again they have not been used in a fuelie before. I don't know if anyone knows but Danny is a 5 time AHDRA prostock champion. He loves R&D work so this is right down his alley. He and his right hand man Dave are two very smart people. I also know what ever package they put together will be reliable. That is very important to me and a lot of others.
I was very luckey to see a couple of his projects. One is a Heritage Softail. It is painted blue and silver. It also looks like something some old geiser would ride ( and we all know what they look like)and if you didn't know by the time you figured it out it was toooo late and you were looking at tail lights. I know my buddy Hubbard has a very fast bike but this one is right on time. It is a twin cam 124 inch "B" zippers built motor that put 156 h/p to the rear wheel and is very reliable and is a fuelie to boot. This is a great package but I still prefer to keep my eagle looking as stock as posible. I am going to be in touch with Zippers next week and get a first hand scoop on what is happening.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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Yeah, 'er 'uh, DAWG,
What's up,dude? I've been told a "B" Motor is always 8-12 HP shy of a Rubber Mount. That being said, if I went to a 124" Zipper's Motor, I would gain 44-48 HP? Very interesting. I've busted a 124", but it was an S&S Evo. Please advise. Later--HUBBARD
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Yeah, 'er 'uh, DAWG,
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Latest update,
For those following along it has come to my attention that their first prototype cam was just finished on the grinder and was being polished. Hopefully with in the next 2 weeks it will be a finished prototype ready for a trial run. Stay tuned I dont have any spec's yet this is a simple bolt in cam have not been told if it is gear drive or chain drive yet.
Also Zippers Football type Air Cleaner mounts are expected around the 1st of December for those looking to keep a stock air cleaner cover and use Zippers Throttle bodies :)
More to come... I expect to hear more information in 10 - 14 days or as soon as they get back from the Vegas show.
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I expect to hear more information in 10 - 14 days or as soon as they get back from the Vegas show.
Damn you all. I just know this is going to be an expensive thread before all is said and done here.....
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I'm in.
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Don look at it as reliability with a zing :) It doesnt hurt quite so bad that way hehe
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Don look at it as reliability with a zing :)
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News as it comes,
Zippers emailed me yesterday they have 2 cams ready for some testing. I should receive them in the next 2 weeks for testing / dynoing. Before the question comes up yes, I have the spec's, but will not be posting them until I have the blessing from Zippers to do so, because we do not know if these are the final cam's of choice based on the fact that they havent been tested yet.
Zippers told me that Once a design has been selected we will offer them in chain & gear drive
Some other news for those watching the thread:
Next week they are going to test run a cnc port thru one of the casting they have on hand.
Looks like Santa's going to come through this year for Christmas.
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Hubbard sorry for the long delay. I have been overwelmed to say the least. Yes the "B" motor makes less H/P. Mainly because you can't twist them as tight as the "A" motor. You could take your 120 and spice it up quite a bit without spending a ton of money. When you get a chance PM me. We need to talk!!!!!!!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
Yeah, 'er 'uh, Dawg,
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Yeah, 'er 'uh, Dawg,
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HUB I agree with most of what you said except for the chain drive. I would go to a gear drive in a WEST VIRGINIA minute. Taking off the tour pak will help. Tell Otis and the gang I SAID HEY!!!!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
I am sure he is talking about the final drive. I broke the clutch, starter and drive belt in the first 3k miles on my last 117ci road king. I went with a barnett clutch, SE 1.4 starter and SE final drive belt with no problems for the next 23k miles until my inner cam bearings blew up taking out the entire motor. Now I go for reliability.
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I am sure he is talking about the final drive.
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The Cams for testing are due to arrive next week. Testing will ensue soon after :) We have two cam support plates to help make this go faster :) I will let you know what I can when we get started.
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You might have blown it up but I bet you had fun doing it!!!!!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
You bet I did. The bike had 118hp and 138lbs TQ. The funny thing about it is compared to a tuned 103 in my 05 SEEG the only difference on the road is in the upper end of 4th and 5th gear. 1 thru 3 this bike pulls to the rev limit real fast in 4th the 117ci pulled to the rev limit like this one does in 3rd. And in 5th gear the 103 goes but does not accelerate very well. Thats the difference in what another 30lbs of torque will do.
I am waiting on the results of the zippers kit. ;D
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Hey Hub, why you got that tourpac on Maudie anyway?
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[smiley=worthless.gif]
Sooooooo.................
"Gun Control" is hitting what your aiming at.............isn't that correct Hubbard?
SMITH AND WESSON MODEL 629 REVOLVER
Specifications
Caliber: .44 Magnum
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OK guys I got a call from Danny today. The EAGLE is going to Zippers as soon as I can get it down there. I am going to try to do it thursday. The bike will get a set of Red Shift TC557 cams with gear drive installed for some dyno testing. Keep in mind this is going to be a bolt in operation only at this time and I have a 50mm throttle and the infamous Thunder Max ECM along with a thunder header installed on the bike. I am not sure what exhaust he will test with or if they will use a few different types. As soon as they get this done I will either get them or myself to post the numbers. If anyone has any questions or suggestions please post them here. I will do my best to address them and also some of the guys from Zippers drop in from time to time.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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OK guys I got a call from Danny today. The EAGLE is going to Zippers as soon as I can get it down there. I am going to try to do it thursday. The bike will get a set of Red Shift TC557 cams with gear drive installed for some dyno testing. Keep in mind this is going to be a bolt in operation only at this time and I
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OK guys I got a call from Danny today. The EAGLE is going to Zippers as soon as I can get it down there. I am going to try to do it thursday. The bike will get a set of Red Shift TC557 cams with gear drive installed for some dyno testing. Keep in mind this is going to be a bolt in operation only at this time and I
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Great news Dawg.
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Don the Thunder Max may not have given me more usable H/P per say. I can tell you the throttle response is unreal!!!!! I guess it would be had to imagine untill you have one.
That's what I'd gathered from the dyno comparisons I'd seen and the seat of the pants reports Mike. Their real benefit (at least for an otherwise stock motor) is an increase in efficiency, smoothness and crispness. All good things.
Have the boys there given you an ETA as to when they'll be done using your bike for a test mule? Everyone here is always so patient for information after all [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] !
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Have the boys there given you an ETA as to when they'll be done using your bike for a test mule?
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I am actually going a little nuts waiting for this stuff as I am very happy with the basic Zippers upgrades I have and want more SOOOOOOOOOOON. I am willing to wait however long it takes to see what the
Dawg does though as he seems to be on track for good things and in touch with those who know at Zippers. If they come out with a packaged improvement from cams alone I would be a little surprised as the very low compression would seem to be an obsticle and they seem to prefer great outcomes. That outer bearing upgrade seems to be logical to me versus splitting the cases but it may be a bandaid on a real problem versus getting the timkins done. JP [smiley=banana.gif] [smiley=banana.gif]
PS 4800 miles in 6 months on the Screamin Chicken and it seems to be running better than ever now that we are getting some cool clear air down here. I threw 4 ounces of militec in it and it seems to like that so far as well. It did throw the extra 4 ounces out the breather in about 50 miles as I expected.
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I put 4 ounces 1 per qt. in the engine as specified by militec and it threw the extra 4 ounces of combined oil/militec out the breather as my engine likes about 1/4 "above fill level no more no less. I will stick some in the primary when I add the m5 tensioner I got recently and change that oil as well. Did not think about the tranny yet, but I will look into the clutch question before I do. If I find out something fairly reliable I will post that as well. The militec does work like magic in guns and seems to lessen engine wear from everything I have seen but does give off a fairly toxic gas when it heats up and bonds for the first time. I would not warm up the bike in the garage for a while after I did this as I could sense the fumes coming out of the breather on my first couple of rides with it in the bike. JP [smiley=banana.gif]
Not to distract from the basic thread GO ZIPPERS I WANT MORE RELIABLE POWER ASAP
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I also agree with the prior post on the ECM. The consistent and reliable throttle response are really a world apart from the stock ecm and any other TC I have ridden. It just plain runs great. JP
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I put 4 ounces 1 per qt. in the engine as specified by militec and it threw the extra 4 ounces of combined oil/militec out the breather as my engine likes about 1/4 "above fill level no more no less.
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MILLITEC???????? I didn't know you guys even knew what is was. Now to burn you guys up even more. It is sold right here in MD!!!!! When I picked my first batch I went to his townhouse to make the purchase!!!!
I will let you guys know when I get the bike over to Zippers.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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DAWG, Can't wait to hear how things go. Getting closer to getting my intake cough being resolved as the Zipper's guys put it.
TL, Just to throw my comment back in: thr throttle response is very crisp, much better than the HD unit. It really hard to beleivably describe how improvement there is over the HD stockers.
Maybe we could get a t-shirt thing going "I got mine at Zippers", "Zip it" on one side and the CVO logo on the other, "You just been Zippered!" or "You need Zippers"... Yeah, yeah, I'll quit watching that TT video
Jim
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Jim they are just going to be testing some cams at this point. If they want to do more that is fine also. My complete package is ready for the build just waiting till Zippers gets done testing. I really won't need the bike now till the weather breaks or if I make the trip south in March. But I always have my ultra which has been neglected for the past 16 months.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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Just to let everyone know who is interested in the Zippers Packages I am taking my SEEG to Zippers this morning. I will talk to Dan and try to get a time line on them doing the 557 bolt in and dyno tune the bike so we can get some numbers. Again this will be a gear driven bolt in cam on a basicly stock SEEG 103. The bike has a Zippers throttle body and ECM and the exhaust is a Thunder Header. I will post something tonight to let everyone know how long it will take. I did talk to Bill L two days ago and he said it was crazy around there. He also said the CAMS were on the shelf!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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OK the bike is there. I did talk to Danny in depth about what was going on. It seems they were in fact waiting for my bike. There are 3 cams to be tested. Cam number 1 is in fact Zippers Red Shift 557 in the gear driven variety. Cams 2 and 3 are test versions and at this point in time I can not really talk about (mainly because I don't know that much) them. They are working on some heads and they are making head way but it is slow. They are not looking for a good design but a great design. I did not see the one set they have done mainly because I was in a hurry. I am going to return next week and spend a day with them. Maybe by then one of the cams would have been tested. I can also tell you it takes more than a day to install the cams and create a map for the new setup. I hope to have a dyno sheet next week or so. I also will have a better grip on where they are heading and why. I know that they are all about usable TQ.
Even though I have a very good setup for my bike I am very interested in these packages. If this bolt in cam produces some good numbers then most of the people out there will have a very good build up for their 103's that can be done in stages.
If there is anything you guys would like to know or would like me to suggest to or ask the guys at Zippers just let me know.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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DC,
Thanks for making the extra effort to get this done and for keeping us all in the loop. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
Looking forward to the test results!
Fatboy
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OK the bike is there. There are 3 cams to be tested. Cam number 1 is in fact Zippers Red Shift 557 in the gear driven variety. Cams 2 and 3 are test versions
That's even more than the news to date would have had us hoping for. Great news and appreciated initiative on their part. The other two cams are likely the ones Harry has in hand. Will be interesting to see comparative results of their work with those cams in your bike versus the same cams worked through with another tuner.
Obviously three sets of install and tuning time will be longer than the one RedShift set that had been part of the original plan. News on all as they work through them will be anxiously awaited though. Thanks again and (if the Zipper's guy is lurking) thanks for making the efforts both with and through Mike and Harry.
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Just chiming in to thank both Mike and Harry. I think this is an opportunity to really have the best of both worlds test data out front. Zippers is obviously a top shelf manufacturer with real R&D genius and for those of you who might not be aware, Jim Brown, the dyno man working with Harry is as good as they get in my opinion. I've used Jim on my bikes and have recommended him maybe 50 or so times. He's compulsive about doing the job right, works with PC3, Race Tuner and Thundermax and most importantly provides honest numbers. This should be a lot of fun and a real trial and error money saver.
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Just chiming in to thank both Mike and Harry.
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I'm interested also. Keep us posted as a cam/head package is what I'm looking for. Was going to do it early this winter, but may have to wait a little to see what they come up with.
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Do you know if they will go as far as developing a map for the race tuner for the combinations they come up with? Or would we need to have a custom map done by a local tuner? I'm just trying to know what all I may be needing to have done that I might not be able to do myself. I did find a local (50 miles) dealer that has trained techs on the race tuner. Don't know how well they're trained, but hopefully, enough.
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Do you know if they will go as far as developing a map for the race tuner for the combinations they come up with?
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Dawg:
I wasn't familiar with the Thundermax unit. I've heard of it but didn't really know much about it. That sounds good to me as I'm not a big fan of using the MOCO's parts if someone else makes aftermarket items. I'll read up more on it. Plus the fact that they will have maps available for it-I imagine I'll try it.
Thanks for the info.
Skippy
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Called Zippers today Bill was out for the day and I don't want to bother Danny in the middle of the day. I did talk to Pete and did not get toooo much info all he said was ALL I KNOW IS THEY ARE RUNNING THE HELL OUT OF THE DYNO TODAY!!!!!!!!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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Skippy,
Call Tony at Zippers his number is below here. He can tell you what you need to know about the ECM and he does most of the shows as well. Great to deal with :)
Tony Van Schoor
410-579-2828 ext 118
Fax: 410-579-2835
tony.v@zippersperformance.com
www.zippersperformance.com
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DAWG:
I'll give Tony a call as this whole system sounds good to me. I was dreading the thought of trying to find someone to tune my bike after I did the cams & heads and this will simplify the whole process and hopefully save me a little money in the process.
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Hey Skippy just to let you know another buddy of mine just installed the Thundermax on his 03 SERK which has on it Bassani True Duals, Ness Big Sucker and Thundermax ECM.
His bike dyno'd out at 95 hp and 105 Torque. He is heading to Colorado tomorrow, but said with a smile on his face wow ! He is quite ecstatic and is now looking forward to getting the heads and cam done when he gets back from his trip.
I don't have a copy of the dyno yet, but asked for it I am just as curious to see the curve prolly as some of you.
Also I told Tony today you would be calling him, he said he is lookingforward to it.
-harry
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Talked to Tony today. He's going to let me know as soon as they have the cams which should be fairly soon. After talking to him I really like the idea of the ThunderMax ECM since it's tuneable by myself, if I wanted to, but also they will have maps for it, so that I don't have to tune it. I like the idea of a factory map---that's not from the HD factory. Thanks for giving me his # & name.
Steve
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Skippy I am going to call down there this morning. I think they will be open(ice storm yesterday) and will have some updated info. I hope they got some testing in. I also got the specs on the cams they are testing and they look real good. They are going to test 3 cams in my bike in hopes of some good numbers for bolt in purposes. After that they are going to do things like heads and pistons and intakes. I know when they get done we will know what we have to work with.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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Skippy I am going to call down there this morning. I think they will be open(ice storm yesterday) and will have some updated info. I hope they got some testing in. I also got the specs on the cams they are testing and they look real good. They are going to test 3 cams in my bike in hopes of some good numbers for bolt in purposes. After that they are going to do things like heads and pistons and intakes. I know when they get done we will know what we have to work with.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
I forgot to ask you. Are they converting to gear drive to test the cams, or are they just replacing the factory cam? As mentioned before, the HP numbers are going to be about 5 higher with the gear drive conversion over the bolt in. Thanks for all you work on this as it's greatly appreciated.
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I forgot to ask you.
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BLM,
The 2 they sent me will be Chain Drive. They will be once approved by Zippers in either form. Should make everyone happy by doing that.
-harry
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BLM,
The 2 they sent me will be Chain Drive.
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With Harry's being chains we'll at least have reports of similar cams in both chain and gear variants. That's worth something; especially for someone interested in a cam that is good to work in the stock motor and that can be installed as inexpensively as possible. Must say, however, that for the relatively small performance improvement we're likely to see in a cam only swap that HP and TQ aren't why I'd be changing just a cam in one of these motors that otherwise has it's stock internals. Were I to spend the money and do the work it's going to be to lose the chain tensioners and gain the gear drive. Any real but small performance increase or moving of the tq band down a bit is just icing on the cake.
Harry, glad to read that your wife isn't feeling terribly. The bikes will always fix or replace. She's ok and that's great.
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Hey TLR / BLM and others thanks for the kind words for wifey.
The reason the cams will be tested in chain form first is because it is for first off STOCK bolt in cam. e.g. Simple Stage 1. They will also be available in Gear Drive, it just gives some people the choice of which way to go. I am quite sure the numbers will be good, just have to be more patient than I was being now that the other bike is down for a bit. I impatiently wait each and every day to hear the skins are in. /fingers crossed really soon. Once the skins are in 2 days later we will be ready to go.
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Harry hope your wife is OK.
I am going to try to get some info tomorrow. I am sure they are testing gear driven in mine but I want to make sure. It would make sense if Harry has chains and I have the gears. We know the gear is good for 3 to 4 H/P. I think the main reason someone would want to change would be to get rid of the chain. So when we see dyno sheets we can compare the numbers. The TQ curve should be very close (timing changes with the chain) so this would be a great test.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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Any new news on this topic yet? I know this is a bad time of year for progress on anything, but was just wondering how it was coming.
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They finished one mold and thought after a team meeting that the numbers were not up to what they thought they could produce / reproduce, so they went back and are in the process well could be done with a 2nd prototype run for the heads.
The cams have been delivered, only the bike i am to test it on is down due to my wifes accident. I am and continue to hope the sheetmetal is in soon and we can get the cam testing out of the way.
Sorry its not what you may want to hear, but they will not just release stuff to sell stuff they want it right or not at all. I am hoping to hear something the week after new years to give them a few days to settle back in after the holidays. Trust me no one on this board or anywhere else wants to see these heads completed more than I do.
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On my end I got a phone call 3 days ago from Bill. I did not have my cell phone with me and missed the call. I am going to make the call this week to see what is happening.
If the info Harry has on the heads is correct then I would think some testing with my bike has happened. Last time I talked to Dan he had told me they had a design on the intake side of the 103 heads but did not know how they would work. If they didn't produce any good numbers they were going back to the drawing board. As Harry stated they will not release anything till it is right. One other thing to keep in mind is that they have a set of heads that are not the best design released by the Motor Company. So all I can say is be patient they are working on it!
I would like to wish everyone a VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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Thanks guys, that's just what I was wanting to know. I'm still working on the wife's bike so it will be a while before I get to mine anyway.
Steve
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Trust me no one on this board or anywhere else wants to see these heads completed more than I do.
Hey Harry, how are the repairs on the bike and the healing on the wife coming?
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Thanks for asking TLR,
My wife is doing good at this point she is backup and walking. The doctor wants her to continue to wear the ankle brace and wean herself off of it over time. (month) The bruising is finally gone, but there is still swelling around her ankle partly due to her having just had surgery on it. She is very anxious to get back to riding though :)
99 percent of the parts are in we are waiting on one of the saddle bags and the front fender. I have an extra police model saddle bag I can put on the bike until Harley ships the replacement. The dealer is picking up the bike tomorrow morning from their storage warehouse to begin the repairs. I should have the bike in hand by Friday this upcoming week and the second its turned over to me I will have a schedule for testing the cam's.
While they are doing all the repairs I am going to have them put on the halogen lights head light and spots, as well as the quick detachable hardware for the rear of the bike incase we buy a tourpak for the pumpkin. Makes no sense not to when they are removing everything to put a new rear fender on anyhow.
The cams will be tested in this order hp cam first then the torque cam.
The reasoning behind this is if the torque is what I expect it to be I wouldnt want to have to reswitch it out ya know. (grin) Sorry its been such a delay, but I feel were back on track now. I will be talking to the dyno guy tomorrow so I can book some time for the dyno.
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Good knows that Momma and bike are feeling better Harry. Couldn't ask for a better beginning to the New Year.
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Twolane,
Nope it doesnt get much better than that ....
And we have had two of the best riding days this year already :)
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Twolane,
Nope it doesnt get much better than that ....
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BLM I wasnt looking to rub it in their faces, but since you did woo hoo it is gorgeous out there isn't it.
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Tentative Date set for the Cam Testing. Next thursday we will do the testing of both cam's on the 04 stock pumpkin.
We will test the HP Cam first and than the Torque Cam.
-harry
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Harry, I think most of us are as excited as you are.... Will be waiting...:)
Jim
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Jim,
Prolly so, but this is a double the excitement for me, because the bike comes back to me from sitting at the dealer over a month from the wreck and we get to test the upgrades.
To bad Christmas came and went I think its just coming a bit late for me now :)
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Harry, glad to hear that the bike is up and running again. Also glad to read that you may have some numbers to share soon.
Dawg, any initial reports yet on the gear drive application of these cams? Remember reading awhile back that the dyno was in use at Zippers with something installed. It sucks being patient.
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Harry, glad to hear that the bike is up and running again.
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Any updates yet on the Zippers work? I'm still thinking about the Red Shift 557-have they done and testing yet with it alone as a bolt in gear drive replacement?
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SKIPPY some testing was done yesterday and today. I don't know what the outcome was. There will be no info released at this time. I would hope by next week we will know something.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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Yo Dawg,
You don't think Zipper's will keep all new products under wraps until the VTwin Expo do you? I'm wondering if they'll hold out to make a big splash there............ [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
Its only 3 or 4 weeks away.
Fatboy
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FATBOY I can assure you that if something is available before the show I WILL POST IT HERE for the members of the board! There is no reason for Danny to wait. I know they have a full plate, to say the least. I did talk talk to Bill 2 days ago and will make a trip to Zippers next week for a few hours to see what is in the works. All I can tell you is they are making some progress on some issues, So something is happening at ZIPPERS!!!!!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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Et all,
The testing is completed. Until Zippers gets it all and decides if it is a ready for primetime or they want to relook at it I will not release any information. If they want to share it I will if they don't I will respect that as well and state as such. We finished the testing today and the first sets of dyno's on the cams have been scanned and sent in. I just got home with the bike in the trailer and have yet to scan in todays dyno comparison.
In regards to the heads they have an intake they are happy with they are working on the exhaust ports at the this time and are very pleased with this go around thus far. I do not have a date on the head prototype as of yet, but like all of you are anxiously awaiting a box in the mail or a phone call.
Soon as I have something more to share I will.
-harry
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Et all,
The testing is completed.
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Well some things to consider here Firedood these were not GEAR DRIVE they were done as a stock bolt in cam with cam tensioners. So you give up a few ponies, and if Zippers decides to release them they will be available either way to make the consumer happy. The seat of the pants feel was remarkably noticable in normal driving ranges and what I felt was displayed on the dyno. I am not sure if I will test the gear drive side of this that is yet to be determined, but it would be an interesting test. I think they are going to do that with Dawgs bike, but I am not certain there either.
Only thing I will say is 97 / 98 ft Tq is attainable at 2700 rpm. These tests were done with the Air Cleaner and cover in place using SAE and the dyno guy sitting on the bike (Approx 225 lbs) for the dyno tune using a Race Tuner version 4.51.
There was NO headwork done this was simple bolt in with Screaming Chicken push rods and gasket kit.
I do not know if they will be happy with the outcome I just sent Zippers the last dyno sheet and await their response.
-harry
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Harry,
Thanks.
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Harry,
Thanks.
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I too check this everyday!GROUND HOG DAY????? [smiley=pumpkin.gif] [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
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Every day this is the first place I look when I get in...every day! Every day on the way home I keep telling myself, be patient, today is the day...every day! Every day when I look and see nothing I say [highlight]Good things come to those that wait...everyday! Reminds me of the time last year when I would call my dealer to see if my scoot came in yet...Every [/highlight]day! :)
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Firedood,
The bike is again at the dyno we put on the Zippers Air Cleaner vs. the Paper Harley Crap one they gave me on the bike instead of a replacement K&N that I had on there. When I get back from Phoenix this friday I will hope to have talked to Zippers and find out whether they are moving forward with the Cam or not.
Side note rumor has it they are also getting close to finishing the first set of heads :) I do not have a time table yet, I know they are happy with the intake and exhaust ports and are working on the chamber at the moment. Wish I had more, but this is all they were sharing last I spoke to them.
-harry
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Harry,
Thanks for the update. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
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Latest Update [timestamp=1138411235],
I have all the final dyno's in hand and will be sending them to Zippers tonight via email after I scan them.
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And don't forget everyone; as the company accepts final data on new production parts they now have their own thread here on this site to feed us the information. We'll have the benefit of hearing it straight from the horse's mouth (so to speak). Keep an eye on this thread:
http://flhrsei.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1138152475
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Latest Update [timestamp=1138411235],
[highlight]I have all the final dyno's in hand and will be sending them to Zippers tonight via email after I scan them.
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Gary, I've already got all but the last number on the credit card programmed in to the phone dialer so I can do the order automatically as soon as we know good stuff. Sometimes quicker is better !
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Gary, I've already got all but the last number on the credit card programmed in to the phone dialer so I can do the order automatically as soon as we know good stuff.
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Sorry Gary,
Cherry's are still faster :) haha Its just a fact your going to have to live with...... Don't worry you will prolly win on the top end Don is getting old and as he tells it and just likes the touring now.
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Don is getting old and as he tells it and just likes the touring now.
All day long [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] [smiley=drink.gif]
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Sorry Gary,
[highlight]Cherry's are still faster :) haha[/highlight]
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WHAT! :o
No longer an important topic? I freaked out when I got home from out of town and went to check on our Zippers cammies. Looked at top billing of this thread and it was gone!!! [smiley=nervous.gif] What Da...weardit go? [smiley=nixweiss.gif] Whew, relieved when I saw it down a few threads. Thought this thread was a sticky or whatcha call it when it goes on top? Thought maybe we were starting over. ;D
JR [smiley=banana.gif]
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Jr.
Its been at the top of the twin cam section for me for a while not sure why your not seeing it there. I just double checked and its still there. I surely hope were not starting over, just waiting on Zippers to go through the data.
-harry
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Jr.
Its been at the top of the twin cam section for me for a while not sure why your not seeing it there.
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Its never the software Don its the coder :) hehe
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No Harry, JR was completely correct.
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That's some funny stuff JR...but, "don't drink or take drugs anymore"...hmmm...I wonder what that's like?
Ride on,
axe103
It's like.........hmmm........Hey, I ain't too sick to die this mornin'! And Hey, there's my Motorsickle, exactly where I parked it last night! And Hey, I looked in the mirror, and niether one of my eyes are swelled shut, and I ain't lookin' through the bars! That's what it's like, for me Brother! [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] Later--HUBBARD
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It's like.........hmmm........Hey, I ain't too sick to die this mornin'!
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Unbalanced!! Any word on the Zippers thing. I know there a few of us waiting to hear the lastest news??
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Unbalanced!! Any word on the Zippers thing. I know there a few of us waiting to hear the lastest news??
For latest information on the Zipper's products it can be had straight from Zippers in this thread:
http://flhrsei.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1138152475
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Unbalanced!! Any word on the Zippers thing. I know there a few of us waiting to hear the lastest news??
It is the works. The packages are almost ready. The word I got 2 days ago was THE DYNO HAS BEEN RUNNING!!!!!!!! I will talk to them when they get back from the show on tuesday.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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I recently saw the spec's on the new 575 cam and after seeing them I think I'll just wait on them to come out and use them on my bike. It'll simplify my life some and I know they'll work, I just won't get to install them now, but it shouldn't take too long when they're available in a couple of months.
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Can some one educate me on preference between stock and gear drive
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Can some one educate me on preference between stock and gear drive
sfisch,
The biggest difference is reliability - many folks have experienced premature wear of the cam chain tensioner shoes, up to the point of trashing the motor.
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Jerry,
Did you see my post on the "cam poll" thread? Any idea what Andrews is talking about with a 0.002" max runout for gear drive application?
TB
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Jerry,
Did you see my post on the "cam poll" thread?
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Jerry,
You 'd man. That explains it!!!!!!! [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]
TB
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Can some one educate me on preference between stock and gear drive
Add to all of the above....3-5 free HP with the changeover and gifts like that are never bad!
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OK I have been in contact with Zippers today concerning the cams, heads, pistons, and the package setup.
The 575 cams are in production right now. The heads are done but there is still work to be done as far as the setup and programing for the CNC machines. The pistons will be forged and for those of us that want a little extra punch (here you go Pappy) a 113 package. I will be with them this weekend at the mid atlantic bike show and will get the poop on a lot more. Don I may even take my camera and get a group shot and if they will allow pics of some of the finished parts (if they have them there)
The parts are almost ready with the exception of the maps ( this is where the dawgs bike and dyno Bobby get together) this will take a lot of time.
So stand by
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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DC,
The pistons are domed also. I asked if they were going to weld up our heads when reworked and JDK showed me the new pistons they would be using to accomplish the same effect without having to weld them up. Looks like they have themselve's 3 great setup's for our bike's.
I also noticed they have some interesting setup's for you guy's with the VRod's.......... [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
Fatboy
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The 575 cams are in production right now.
So stand by
Be Safe
THE DAWG
Dawg, when you say "in production" are you saying they are producing them NOW or they have begun the process of production that will take around 75 days????? :-?
JR [smiley=banana.gif]
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Dawg, when you say "in production" are you saying they are producing them NOW or they have begun the process of production that will take around 75 days????? :-?
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DC,
The pistons are domed also. I asked if they were going to weld up our heads when reworked and JDK showed me the new pistons they would be using to accomplish the same effect without having to weld them up. Looks like they have themselve's 3 great setup's for our bike's.
I also noticed them have some interesting setup's for you guy's with the VRod's.......... [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
Fatboy
Brian thats what I was told this morning. I am going to try to get some pics of a few things and try to post them on here.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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OK I have been in contact with Zippers today concerning the cams, heads, pistons, and the package setup.
The 575 cams are in production right now. The heads are done but there is still work to be done as far as the setup and programing for the CNC machines. The pistons will be forged and for those of us that want a little extra punch (here you go Pappy) a 113 package. I will be with them this weekend at the mid atlantic bike show and will get the poop on a lot more. Don I may even take my camera and get a group shot and if they will allow pics of some of the finished parts (if they have them there)
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Don I may even take my camera and get a group shot and if they will allow pics of some of the finished parts (if they have them there)
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Dawg,
Sounds good, it will not be as long as it has been. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] For those that don't know or are interested in bike show "The Dawg" was talking about check out this site....
Mid-Atlantic International Motorcycle Show (http://www.cycleshow.net/)
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
PS
Dawg, I'm working on Saturday, but can't rule out making a day trip up there on Sunday (weather permitting), you going to be around that day?
FIREOOd I will be duing my faithful duty to the citizens of THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA on Sunday. Sorry it would have been fun to hook up. On another note they are calling for snow Saturday into Sunday.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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That'd be interesting to see Mike.
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I saw the modified 103 heads at the V-Twin Expo in Cinci last weekend at the Zippers booth. They had the head on display, but not the exact (doomed) piston that goes with it. Sorry, but I didn't think to take a picture, however I did pick up a copy of their literature on the kit.
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See the lastest info on these kits which by mistake I posted in the Vendor's Thread under Zipper's performance...... [smiley=oops.gif]
Oh well its late and I'm tired. [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
Goodnight! [smiley=zzz.gif]
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TB,
Scan the literature and post it .... please
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Will have to wait and see how the weather pans out tomorrow. The nice weather man is calling for HEAVY SNOW starting tomorrow AM. If it is going to be that bad I will be hanging out in the mountains. The show is about 1 1/2 hours away.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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TB,
Scan the literature and post it .... please
-----------------------------------------------------------
Its already posted in the Vendor's thread. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
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Fatboy,
Yes, that's is the same literature I have on the kits. (Look under the Vendor - Zippers Performance thread).
Does anyone have any ballpark pricing yet???
Thanks,
TB
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Unbalanced,
JDK has posted a dyno sheet for the new 575 cam in the Vendor's Thread.
Was this the results from your testing? (Torque curve was impressive!)
If so could you share with us the exact Mods which were done to the bike?
And will you have any maps available for use with a Race Tuner?
Thank you for your reply!
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Fatboy,
Yes they posted the dyno the bike has no real mods. The bike really hauls well light to light and stays pretty close to the 124" up till 3rd gear,
Now, what was done to the bike was this,
Chain drive 575 cam installed with Screaming Eagle Adjustable Push Rods
Originally had SE Air Cleaner, but after my wife's accident they did not replace my K&N air filter with like kind as they were not available, so they gave me a piece of chit Harley one. Thus I got a Zippers Larger Filter to put on the bike.
So, we used the Screaming Eagle Kit, but we swapped out for a Zippers Element as the Air Cleaner Filter.
The bike also has D&D Fat Cats 2 into 1 with Stock Tapered Baffles
And for this test we used the SERT.
I have the map for the 2 into 1 and as always happy to share it.
-harry
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Unbalanced,
Thank you!
I'm really interested in this new cam. I have a Race Tuner already so I could save a few $$$ in the short term by continuing to use it. After investigating the D&D Fat Cats at the V Twin Expo I came away very impressed, fit and finish on bikes being shown was excellent and their performance comes highly recommended as you already know.
The only wild card is I had my stock throttle body and intake bored out to 48mm so the map may take a little tweaking......... [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
The tq curve JDK posted is right where I'd like it to be for my riding style and NO big dip on take off. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
Fatboy
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Fatboy,
A little rich wouldnt hurt you as we tuned the bike closer to 14:1, although I would get it fine tuned, I think you will find you could ride it and not hurt it.
-harry
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OK boys and girls. I had a nice long talk with the Zippers Guru's yesterday(sorry for thr delay) There has been a lot going on at Zippers lately. I even heard rumors of 7 day work weeks trying to get everything done. There has been some testing going on with the 103 packages and the development of a 113 package for our bikes using the factory 103 heads. The 103 packages will be ready soon. I am meeting with them sometime next week. I work Monday, Friday for DC and I am pretty booked up the middle of the week doing my part time gig. So since they are working in the shop on the weekends Dan and I are going to try to hook up next Saturday. I am taking a bunch of parts down there (113 stuff) and we are going to start working on a few other things. I WILL HAVE ALL OF YOUR INFO IN 7 DAYS or less. If you have any questions about any of the workings at Zippers at this time please post them here. You have until next Friday night to get me any questions or concerns. I will get anwsers direct from Dan the man and post them here.
They are very pleased with the outcome of the devolpment and the finished product of the 103 stuff. I will get to see the whole enchalata next week. I am not sure of any numbers (H/P and TQ) as of yet and don't know that they will allow me to release them next week but I will try. I am hoping to see the new cams in gear driven models and I know they have heads already finished. So I will have my camera with me and (this is where two lane comes in) will try to resize them so I can post them.
So stand by
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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If you have any questions about any of the workings at Zippers at this time please post them here. You have until next Friday night to get me any questions or concerns. I will get answers direct from Dan the man and post them here.
They are very pleased with the outcome of the development and the finished product of the 103 stuff. I will get to see the whole enchilada next week. I am not sure of any numbers (H/P and TQ) as of yet and don't know that they will allow me to release them next week but I will try. I am hoping to see the new cams in gear driven models and I know they have heads already finished. So I will have my camera with me and (this is where two lane comes in) will try to resize them so I can post them.
So stand by
Be Safe
THE DAWG
Dawg that's great! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
I have been waiting on these cams and trust the R&D of Zippers. My 1st question is availability and price on 575 gear cams. Do I need to put my name on a list and will we be able to get a group discount? Now throw in the other developments and packages and wonder if I need to go ahead with 113 stuff and be done with it! [smiley=nixweiss.gif] For Me, my decision will be made on cost, whether or not I can afford this investment right now. :-? So 2nd, will prices be available for each package and once again, will there be a possible discount? Thanks Bro for your time and investment in this project. I appreciate ya, God Bless!
JR [smiley=banana.gif]
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DCfireman,
Thanks for the update, that is great.
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I glanced at the Zippers Website just to see what they wrote up on the 575 cam. Pretty sparse, but at least the numbers were listed. Based on what all the other Redshift cams are priced at, I'd expect this cam to be selling for around $335.
Someone had mentioned in the Zippers section that they were disappointed in the amount of increase in the cam over stock. I look at it as a huge improvement in the low rpm's where the powerband bugs the heck out of me when I ride with other TC88's.
I'd like to see another dyno run that starts at 2,000rpm vs stock. Either way, I'm gonna try this first before doing the major headwork and porting. How about package pricing? 575 + Thundermax= $$?? New Cam + Head/Port Work=$$??
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I will try to get some info for you guys. Tally the testing that was listed with the 575 cams were chain driven. Then you add the TB and Thunder Max and I think you would be very surprised with the right exhaust.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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OK guys and gals I spent a few hours down at Zippers yesterday. I do have some pics and I have some info.
The 575 cams in either chain or gear will be available in 3 weeks give or take. They have been ground and are packed and ready for shipping for heat treat. I would advise you to call and get on the list as there is already one. I was also told that after Daytona the real test of the complete packages will begin. A very pretty ( and soon to be famous)bike they have nick named "PUNKIN" will be on center stage. I have no dyno info on the cams except the one they have already released. They have done some work with PUNKIN but they are not ready to release any info as of yet.
As soon as the testing is finished the packages will be on the market with all of the test data avail at that time. They don't want to send this stuff out on the street till the maps are ready to go. The Thunder Max will get a new face lift. The ECM will have an interface module that can attatch to it and also to a couple of o2 sensors to create a closed loop system for those of you that would want it.
I saw the complete NADS system. It looks great but will not be available for our 103's for a while if ever. The stock fuel pump is the root of the problem at this time. Dan did say they were going to do some testing on the system on a CVO bike in the near future. PUNKIN?????? not sure.
Now the important part PRICE!!!!!! Right now the cams will list for $335.00 plus gear drive and bearings. I will be working with Zippers in a couple of weeks to come up with a CVO.com discount package. I think we can get some savings just not sure of how much. They will be very fair.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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[highlight]I would advise you to call and get on the list as there is already one.[/highlight] Now the important part PRICE!!!!!! Right now the cams will list for $335.00 plus gear drive and bearings. I will be working with Zippers in a couple of weeks to come up with a [highlight]CVO.com discount package.[/highlight] I think we can get some
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JR I am going to talk to them about the discount program when they return from Daytona. I think we will have something set up before the cams are released.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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ZIPPERS PICS
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ZIPPERS PICS
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ZIPPERS PICS
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ZIPPERS PICS
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ZIPPERS PICS
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ZIPPERS PICS
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ZIPPERS PICS NOTE: This will mot be available for our bikes at this time if ever.
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Heads and pistons look similar to the system used by Hemi Designs to create a squish area - http://www.hemidesign.com/pages/technical%20overview.html
Scroll down to "How it Works" section. Seems to work pretty well for them, since they claim major power increases with 89 octane pump gas (149 hp on a carbureted 103, for instance).
Jerry
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Is it.... yes, I think so. Could it be... sniff, sniff; smells like...... Dawg Pictures !!
Interesting stuff Dawg. Thanks.
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Where will Zippers be located next weekend at Daytona?? I'd like to meet them and discuss the Thundermax.
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Talley you can find Zippers at Burce Rossmeyers DESTINATION DAYTONA!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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Any word on prices and numbers for the 113" kit? I am looking at going 113" and this sounds like a better option than the Harley package.
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They will be testing the 103's when they get back from Daytona. The 113 package has been put together but no word on when it will hit the dyno. Since the cams are just about to be released I would think the packages will be released soon also. They have no maps for these to my knowledge as of yet. They will need the completion of the maps before they will release any power numbers or a final release date on the complete package. Prices have not been discussed with me as of yet, I will be meeting with my main man Bill next week to try to finalize price and CVO discounts.
Just-us-6 I agree with you on the 113 package. I think it will be a better all around package than the Moco's. I will let you know as soon as I have been given the info.
For those of you that are waiting the cams, they were sent out to heat treat early last week. They should be ready for sale in a couple of weeks give or take a few days.
This has been a very good program for the 103 motors. I am very pleased with the progress given the amount of work involved to make these motors wake up and still be reliable. I really can't wait to get Punkin back as the weather is getting warm here in the mountains of Western Maryland. I would also like to thank Unbalanced for the initial testing he did on the first grind of these cams. He actually helped put the program ahead.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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Dawg, thanks for the update. I too spoke with the guys at the booth at Bike Week and was unable to get any further info. I am interested in the cams, heads and pistons (power package?) they have to offer. Was hoping they were going to have dyno results, compression, flow numbers and a price for the new package. Oh well, hopefully good things will come to those of us who can wait... You and Unbalanced have been the best source of info. on their new products.
(http://bigbikeriders.com/photopost/data/500/2664fatboy_left_side_forum-med.jpg)
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Dawg, thanks for the update.
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DAWG
I talked with Tony at Zippers last week and got my order in on the 575's and got me thinkin about the Thundrmax ECM, D&D Fatcats with the performance baffles and ghost pipe, and the zippers aircleaner. I was going with the SERT I got for Christmas and figured with Thundermax set up I can get the map loaded and save money for dyno tune of race tuner and apply to the labor on cam install. I told him I was from this site and asked if they were going to get a group buy on the cams and he said he was sure they were and mentioned he knows they been talking to the "Fireman" about it.
After checking out an old group buy on the Fatcats I found I can get them alot cheaper than Zippers can sell em. Although, Tony said if we get 5 or more on the cams and thundermax he will give us a discount on that package. Anyone else interested in getting bolt in 575 cams, gear drive set up, and thundermax, let me know.
JR [smiley=banana.gif]
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JR I think you are making the right decision IMHO by buying the Thunder Max. Once you have it you won't believe how your bike will act!
Be safe
THE DAWG
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Thanks Dawg
He said run it for 30 days and if you don't like it return it for a full refund. I already sold my race tuner on ebay. Do you have the D&D Fatcats with performance baffles too? I am currently running the screamin eagle pro performance mufflers and end caps. Was wondering if they have a map for them incase I waited on getting the D&D's.
JR [smiley=banana.gif]
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Anyone else interested in getting bolt in 575 cams, gear drive set up, and thundermax, let me know.
JR,
They've got my credit card for deposit/payment/whatever on the cams, gear drive, bearing set, their pushrods and the oil pump pressure relief valve.
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JR,
They've got my credit card for deposit/payment/whatever on the cams, gear drive, bearing set, their pushrods and the oil pump pressure relief valve.
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I also spoke with Tony at Zippers last week. I'm waitng for a bunch of info regarding options. I will be going for cams at least, and may go nuts depending on packages available. Have a stock bike currently, so if I'm buying cams, need new exhaust then should get Thundermax and if I'm going this far, might as well...somebody stop me!
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Hey Don,
Who did you talk with at Zippers? I thought you were lookin to go with just the bolt in cams.
JR, that really is basically what I'm doing.
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JR,
I got the D&D and love them...but be careful...if you ask for the preformance baffle you might get the racing ones...way too loud and hard to tune...as they have limited backpressure...
Do a search of the board and you will see what I am talking about....
If you dont find it ...PM...Unbalanced...as he helped me when ordering...
Just a little info....
DisAir.
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Thanks Dawg
He said run it for 30 days and if you don't like it return it for a full refund. I already sold my race tuner on ebay. Do you have the D&D Fatcats with performance baffles too? I am currently running the screamin eagle pro performance mufflers and end caps. Was wondering if they have a map for them incase I waited on getting the D&D's.
JR [smiley=banana.gif]
JR THE DAWG is running a Thunder Header right now but I have been told when my build is done I may have a set of fat cats on the bike. I am sure they have a Map for the Screamin Eagle mufflers.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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I also spoke with Tony at Zippers last week. I'm waitng for a bunch of info regarding options. I will be going for cams at least, and may go nuts depending on packages available. Have a stock bike currently, so if I'm buying cams, need new exhaust then should get Thundermax and if I'm going this far, might as well...somebody stop me!
RIDEFAR this is when the fun begins. I'm not going to stop you now when you are having all of this fun. It's almost like when we were kids(little) trying to sleep the NIGHT BEFORE CHRISTMAS while visions of TWIN CAMS are dancing in our heads. No way am I going to stop all of this fun.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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I too got my ThunderMax at Daytona and was sold with the availability of o2 tuning. Has anyone noticed that the software has been updated and doesn't match the manual? Lots of new features, but how to use them? Should also be an advanced tuning mode for seeing the tables and their values.....where is it?
Unfortunately my pipes and the canned maps on the disk don't match up exactly and I'm getting a burbling/surging condition. Done some seat-of-the-pants tuning, but would have liked to see more......
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JR,
I got the D&D and love them...but be careful...if you ask for the preformance baffle you might get the racing ones...way too loud and hard to tune...as they have limited backpressure...
Do a search of the board and you will
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I also spoke with Tony at Zippers last week. I'm waiting for a bunch of info regarding options. I will be going for cams at least, and may go nuts depending on packages available. Have a stock bike currently, so if I'm buying cams, need new exhaust then should get Thundermax and if I'm going this far, might as well...somebody stop me!
ridefar
If you are looking to go D&D Fatcats you may want to get from AMS (American Machine Supply) I saw an old group buy on these pipes with the ghost pipe included for $649, add $39 for performance baffles. It said it was until July 31 of last year. I emailed AMS and Tom Nicholes, president of AMS gave me a contact that should be able to accommodate me with those numbers or be very close to it. I was going to try and call today. That's about a $227 savings over Zippers which Tony said he could not compete with some of these other prices but he can on Zippers stuff. Thundermax is $429.95 and he said with a group purchase that could go down to $380. I will keep everyone posted about the Fatcats and what I find out. Have a great day and God Bless!
JR [smiley=banana.gif]
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I too had thundermax installed at daytona on the
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The stock touring mufflers on an SEEG are not quite the same as the SE Mufflers.
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I too had thundermax installed at daytona on the
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Has anyone seen the instructions/user manual for the dual o2 module for the ThunderMax? Ultimately the objective is to have this thing tune itself and skip the dyno. Question is, is this actively monitoring and adjusting the AFR grid or does it just make suggestions that have to be manually inputted? Kindof siminlar to Daytona Twin Tec???
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Thanks Dawg
He said run it for 30 days and if you don't like it return it for a full refund. I already sold my race tuner on ebay. Do you have the D&D Fatcats with performance baffles too? I am currently running the screamin eagle pro performance mufflers and end caps. Was wondering if they have a map for them incase I waited on getting the D&D's.
JR [smiley=banana.gif]
JR,
They haven't updated the list of maps on their site yet, but they do show maps for the SE slip-ons and A/C, and for the D&D Fat Cats.
103" SE/CVO engine with stock FL headpipes, Screamin' Eagle
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JR,
They haven't updated the list of maps on their site yet, but they do show maps for the SE slip-ons and A/C, and for the D&D Fat Cats.
103" SE/CVO engine with stock FL headpipes, Screamin' Eagle
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I just got off of the Phone with Bill over at Zippers. The cams will be ready in 2 weeks. The list price on the cams is 339.95 they will sell them to anyone on this site for 304.95. This is not a group buy, but you need to tell them you are from the CVO site! Punkin is testing some products and they are creating some new maps that will be needed for some of the new GFS parts they have for our bikes. I might have some more info in a few days. For those of you with interest I DO NOT have any dyno numbers that I can release as of yet, but they are looking good!!!!!!!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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Thanks Jerry! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
I got a great buy on D&D Fatcats with Ghost pipe. I was researching this exhaust after talking with Tony at Zippers. I found an old thread where we had a special on D&D fatcats with the ghost pipe for $650. I called and got this extended till the end of April 2006. I will post it in group buys when I get home tonight.
JR [smiley=banana.gif]
For those interested I got more information posted in "Group Buy"
JR [smiley=banana.gif]
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Made another trip down to Zippers today. I did see Punkin sitting with no module for what ever reason. I was asked if I wanted to take her for a ride, but I declined too much to talk about. I did see some dyno print outs. I actually was very impressed with the bolt in cam dyno print out. I did not ask if I could put any thing on the board so I must be careful. The Tq curve cuts in very early and keeps going. Peak number (corrected) was slightly higher than my stock dyno sheet posted here on the site. HP was down 1 or 2 HP if I remember correctly. They did want me to ride here and feel the difference. I guess I should have. 4 of us sat down in the lunch room and talked about the packages and what THE DAWG wanted to do with Punkin. So the real tests are GAME ON starting as early as tomorrow. I did meet some new people and as usual everyone was just happy to be there.
If anyone is looking for a BOLT IN CAM I think you should try it. I did talk in depth to Bobby THE DYNO KING. He was very impressed with the increase in cylinder pressures with the new 575.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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DC, The dyno sheet you saw, was it a stock 103 with the cams or did it have other engine work?
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When can we see a dyno sheet for the new Redshift 575 cam???
Cheers
[smiley=drink.gif]
Mike
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There one already posted by "unbalanced".......do a search. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
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My current dyno numbers are 98.6Hp & 100.6Tq, so would it be fair to say the redshift 575 should give me 5% more across the board & with gear drive a further 5%????
Do you think 105Hp is acheivable with a geardrive redshift 575??
Cheers
[smiley=drink.gif]
Mike
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DC, The dyno sheet you saw, was it a stock 103 with the cams or did it have other engine work?
It was a stock 103 with different exhaust systems. I think this week they are going to start testing the complete packages. That would be the stock 103 heads that are cnc'ed, 10.0 to 1 compression, the 50mm throttle body and different exhaust systems. I am going to try to go down there more often to see what else has been done.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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When can we see a dyno sheet for the new Redshift 575 cam???
Cheers
[smiley=drink.gif]
Mike
As Fatboy posted there is one lurking around here some where. I did see the sheet unbalanced sent to them and there is some difference but not much. If I remember correctly the TQ curve comes in earlier on the Zippers dyno and I'm not sure about the HP. Next trip down there I will ask if they can e amil it to me and I will post it.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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Dawg,
This is the link to the chain drive version of the 575 compared to the 253 from the same dyno.
http://flhrsei.org/yabb2/Attachments/413-925_575TC_vs_SE253_cam_001.jpg
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I did find it, but was not real exited about the numbers. I have similar numbers already running an untuned (standard) map
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My current dyno numbers are 98.6Hp & 100.6Tq, so would it be fair to say the redshift 575 should give me 5% more across the board & with gear drive a further 5%????
Do you think 105Hp is acheivable with a geardrive redshift 575??
Cheers
[smiley=drink.gif]
Mike
Yes I think you can get 105 out of the red shift 575. But more important than that is the TQ curve. It comes in early which is what you need to get your bike moving. Remember horsepower is for braging rights.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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Dawg,
This is the link to the chain drive version of the 575 compared to the 253 from the same dyno.
http://flhrsei.org/yabb2/Attachments/413-925_575TC_vs_SE253_cam_001.jpg
Harry the info I was talking about were your dyno numbers and Zippers dyno numbers on an overlay if I remember correctly. What fuel injection mangement were you using on your bike? All the dynos done by Zippers were with the Thunder Max ECM. There was a difference with the Zippers numbers being a little higher and the dyno done on a Land/ Sea dyno.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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I did find it, but was not real exited about the numbers. I have similar numbers already running an untuned (standard) map
Mike, Its hard to see- easier if you print it but there are 2 runs on that dyno sheet, I think its before and after... The after has the torque up near 100 at 2500 rpm. But there doesnt seem to be alot of increase in total numbers...
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I did find it, but was not real exited about the numbers. I have similar numbers already running an untuned (standard) map
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Your missing potential torque from idle to 4000rpm!
Your peak number are very good as is for the package your currently running. But in a race through the gears from a dead stop identical bikes but one has a 575 & Fat Cat vs your current configuration guess who wins everytime?
The one who has the stronger torque curve! The race is long over before you hit your peaks..........JMHO
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Mike, Its hard to see- easier if you print it but there are 2 runs on that dyno sheet, I think its before and after... The after has the torque up near 100 at 2500 rpm. But there doesnt seem to be alot of increase in total numbers...
The increase is in TQ and where it comes in and leaves. You must remember you STILL HAVE STOCK HEADS AND PISTONS!!!!! The biggest factor is in the driveability. The numbers I saw were very good numbers with TQ showing up in full steam at 3200. Also the TQ numbers I saw were higher than 100. Hell my SEEG had 104.4 in bad air at Myrtle last fall.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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Your missing potential torque from idle to 4000rpm!
Your peak number are very good as is for the package your currently running. But in a race through the gears from a dead stop identical bikes but one has a 575 & Fat Cat vs your current configuration guess who wins everytime?
The who has the stronger torque curve! The race is long over before you hit your peaks..........JMHO
Brian you are correct. TQ is what gets you moving HP takes over way down the line. The bike with the higher TQ numbers that come in early will most likely be the winner.
Hell if you look at Hubbards dyno most people would think for a built 120 it didn't do what they would expext!!! Sure the HP is only in the 120's but the real eye opener is the TQ number that is in the high 130's. You will not touch that heavy bagger. I am looking for some numbers in the 120's (TQ and HP) when Punkin is finished. I may have higher HP numbers than Hubbard. I can tell you my TQ number will be much lower hence getting my doors blown off. You must look at your TQ curve, where it comes in how high it goes and where it leaves.
Now you guys that think that the 575 cam is not all that. I can take a stock 103 with the 575, air cleaner and pipes that is tuned and you are not going to keep up.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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Mike,
This was done on a dyno jet 250i with a Race Tuner. Zippers 575 chain drive cam, with D&D's with stock baffle, HD SE A/C and Zippers element, and Race Tuner only mods done to this bike with. Remember this is not a gear drive cam and it was run in SAE mode here in Florida. Under STD we gained about 3 hp / 3 tq and we left the air cleaner on with its cover as well, and we had 40 lbs of pressure in the rear tire.
I would expect the Thundermax to get better numbers it has over twice the tunability points to ensure a better running motor. If Dan wants he can send down a map in the tuner and ask Jim to run it again. I am quite sure it will pick up a few ponies.
-harry
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Mike,
This was done on a dyno jet 250i with a Race Tuner.