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Author Topic: Canbus / ABS issues.  (Read 5621 times)

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MightyTharg

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Canbus / ABS issues.
« on: May 21, 2018, 04:52:05 PM »

2015 CVO Streetglide

So I was on the way to the HD dealer to have rear wheel bearings and front brake pads replaced when the ABS light would occasionally flicker on for a moment or two then go off again, this then triggered the CEL.

Dropped the bike off, told them of the issue and presumed maybe it was as a result of the rear bearings.  Picked it up and rode home and all was good. Dealer told me the ABS light and CEL was due to the worn pads.

Next day I get the same problem, bike starts up OK and ABS light flashes, then I set off and it clears and then I get the same behaviour (occasional flickering of the ABS light and then a CEL). Hook the bike up to the SEPST and my laptop and find some fault codes, clear them and ride the bike again and get the same problem.  Hook up the bike again and read off fault codes:

U0001 - Canbus error
U0140 - Lost comms with BCM
U0156 - Lost comms w/ speedo

As this happens I'm just about to go on holiday - so book the bike into my friendly independent dealer, he confirms he's aware of similar issues due to trapped or stretched wires in the loom from under the tank up into the batwing.

Return from holiday and independent hasn't made much progress, can't find an obviously loose wire and is having issues hooking his laptop up to the bike to get diagnostics.  His test ride confirmed front wheel can lock up but rear ABS appears to be working. He suggests I need to take the bike back to the main dealer.

Took the bike to the main dealer on Thursday night.

So far they've told me that they believe the bike is running well and the abs is working, but they believe the ABS is not communicating with the ECM. They are also having issues running diagnostics as the comms keep closing down. I asked them if they'd thought to check the wiring but they said they wanted to try reflashing the ECM first, but they couldn't do that on account of not being able to maintain comms to the ECM... So I asked them what the next step was at which point they went a bit vague but did remind me that they thought the bike was running really well...

So I've instructed them to start looking at the wiring and I asked their service manager for the details of HD UK so that I could complain as I didn't find it acceptable for a 3 yr old 15k mile bike to apparently have an unresolvable electrical issue.  They didn't have the contact details to hand as they're not aware that anybody has ever complained before.

I've now phoned HD customer service and vented - I have pointed out that I'm aware that stuff goes wrong but would expect the main dealer to be able to diagnose and fix it, I've also pointed out that I've had more trouble in 15k miles with the Streetglide than I had in over 200k miles on BMWs.  HD UK and the main dealer have both committed to giving me an update.... I wait with bated breath.

Meanwhile, any insights into where to look next would be appreciated.

Cheers
   

     
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HighOnHD

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Re: Canbus / ABS issues.
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2018, 08:30:15 PM »

2015 CVO Streetglide

So I was on the way to the HD dealer to have rear wheel bearings and front brake pads replaced when the ABS light would occasionally flicker on for a moment or two then go off again, this then triggered the CEL.

Dropped the bike off, told them of the issue and presumed maybe it was as a result of the rear bearings.  Picked it up and rode home and all was good. Dealer told me the ABS light and CEL was due to the worn pads.

Next day I get the same problem, bike starts up OK and ABS light flashes, then I set off and it clears and then I get the same behaviour (occasional flickering of the ABS light and then a CEL). Hook the bike up to the SEPST and my laptop and find some fault codes, clear them and ride the bike again and get the same problem.  Hook up the bike again and read off fault codes:

U0001 - Canbus error
U0140 - Lost comms with BCM
U0156 - Lost comms w/ speedo

As this happens I'm just about to go on holiday - so book the bike into my friendly independent dealer, he confirms he's aware of similar issues due to trapped or stretched wires in the loom from under the tank up into the batwing.

Return from holiday and independent hasn't made much progress, can't find an obviously loose wire and is having issues hooking his laptop up to the bike to get diagnostics.  His test ride confirmed front wheel can lock up but rear ABS appears to be working. He suggests I need to take the bike back to the main dealer.

Took the bike to the main dealer on Thursday night.

So far they've told me that they believe the bike is running well and the abs is working, but they believe the ABS is not communicating with the ECM. They are also having issues running diagnostics as the comms keep closing down. I asked them if they'd thought to check the wiring but they said they wanted to try reflashing the ECM first, but they couldn't do that on account of not being able to maintain comms to the ECM... So I asked them what the next step was at which point they went a bit vague but did remind me that they thought the bike was running really well...

So I've instructed them to start looking at the wiring and I asked their service manager for the details of HD UK so that I could complain as I didn't find it acceptable for a 3 yr old 15k mile bike to apparently have an unresolvable electrical issue.  They didn't have the contact details to hand as they're not aware that anybody has ever complained before.

I've now phoned HD customer service and vented - I have pointed out that I'm aware that stuff goes wrong but would expect the main dealer to be able to diagnose and fix it, I've also pointed out that I've had more trouble in 15k miles with the Streetglide than I had in over 200k miles on BMWs.  HD UK and the main dealer have both committed to giving me an update.... I wait with bated breath.

Meanwhile, any insights into where to look next would be appreciated.

Cheers
   

   

Sorry to hear you are having troubles. This is a situation where break the problem into two parts… Canbus communication problem and ABS/Speed sensor problem. See if you can disconnect both of the ABS sensors easy enough, and then clear codes and go for a ride again. Obviously, the U0156 Lost comms w/speedo should occur again. If the other communication error codes don’t occur, then you have narrowed it down to the sensors. If the communication errors still occur I would look for a wire shorting or rubbing somewhere. I designed a buss and modules that hang off of it that is similar in some respects to the Canbus, in that it relies on a set resistance at the end of the bus. If a wire is shorting/rubbing somewhere and changing that resistance it will screw-up comms. Of course, connectors should also go to the top of the list to check.
Hope this helps.
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MightyTharg

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Re: Canbus / ABS issues.
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2018, 04:16:33 AM »

And it turns out it's all due to a bad battery.

They checked the battery first and charged it and thought it was OK. But later they decided to swap over a battery Grimm another bike and were able to clear the faults and test ride the bike without them reappearing.

New battery is on order.
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HighOnHD

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Re: Canbus / ABS issues.
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2018, 08:41:24 PM »

And it turns out it's all due to a bad battery.

They checked the battery first and charged it and thought it was OK. But later they decided to swap over a battery Grimm another bike and were able to clear the faults and test ride the bike without them reappearing.

New battery is on order.

Power, ground, and connectors... in that order. Often the simple stuff that gets skipped!

I replaced my battery about a year ago. I have the same year/make bike as you. Just didn't have the same ooomf it had before. Glad you got it figured out.
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Twolanerider

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Re: Canbus / ABS issues.
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2018, 08:48:49 PM »

They did not have batteries in stock?
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Re: Canbus / ABS issues.
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2018, 08:31:56 AM »


Rather hard to believe that a battery that is in good enough health to reliably start the engine is somehow not good enough for the CAN bus system.  I'm thinking the real problem was "fixed" when they disconnected and then reconnected things. 

Jerry
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ultrafxr

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Re: Canbus / ABS issues.
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2018, 11:27:16 AM »

Rather hard to believe that a battery that is in good enough health to reliably start the engine is somehow not good enough for the CAN bus system.  I'm thinking the real problem was "fixed" when they disconnected and then reconnected things. 

Jerry
I'm in complete agreement with you on this.  Something doesn't add up with that explaination.
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Twolanerider

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Re: Canbus / ABS issues.
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2018, 02:50:51 PM »

Rather hard to believe that a battery that is in good enough health to reliably start the engine is somehow not good enough for the CAN bus system.  I'm thinking the real problem was "fixed" when they disconnected and then reconnected things. 

Jerry


I just assumed it was a poor connection at one of the cable terminals.  They didn't find it but they solved it.  Easy to blame the battery in that case.  No harm in getting a free new battery either.  Hell, maybe the tech knew it and thought "hey, I need a good used battery for my ride."  No matter what it's still weird a dealership doesn't have batteries in stock.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2018, 03:28:51 PM by Twolanerider »
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MightyTharg

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Re: Canbus / ABS issues.
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2018, 03:27:23 PM »

They did not have batteries in stock?

Dude they don't even keep brake pads in stock - I chit you not!
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Twolanerider

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Re: Canbus / ABS issues.
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2018, 03:28:21 PM »

Dude they don't even keep brake pads in stock - I chit you not!



Oh man....    I shouldn't have been taking a drink of soda when I read that.  Dammit...  :huepfenlol2:
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MightyTharg

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Re: Canbus / ABS issues.
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2018, 03:35:37 PM »


I just assumed it was a poor connection at one of the cable terminals.  They didn't find it but they solved it.  Easy to blame the battery in that case.  No harm in getting a free new battery either.  Hell, maybe the tech knew it and thought "hey, I need a good used battery for my ride."  No matter what it's still weird a dealership doesn't have batteries in stock.

Yep tjis is possible but sometimes when batteries start to go weird chit can happen. Only had 3 rogue batteries over the years and maybe this was the 4th.

Either way once I have the bike back we'll find out whether all is well soon enough.
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Re: Canbus / ABS issues.
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2018, 04:00:17 PM »

And it turns out it's all due to a bad battery.

They checked the battery first and charged it and thought it was OK. But later they decided to swap over a battery Grimm another bike and were able to clear the faults and test ride the bike without them reappearing.

New battery is on order.
Dude they don't even keep brake pads in stock - I chit you not!

WTH!!!! Is this a t-shirt boutique or a dealership... unfreakingbelieveable!!!!

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Re: Canbus / ABS issues.
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2018, 05:03:15 PM »

First two years of owning my 07 dealers installed 5 new batteries under warranty. Next time I brought my battery tender with me and told them hook it up as I didn't want them milking warranty again for another.  :huepfenjump3:
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MightyTharg

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Re: Canbus / ABS issues.
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2018, 09:34:46 AM »

WTH!!!! Is this a t-shirt boutique or a dealership... unfreakingbelieveable!!!!

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I think it's different in the US - here in the UK I'm afraid that even some of the HD dealers don't seem to take their bikes (or customers) seriously and you can genuinely get some weird looks from them when you if you actually plan on riding your bike and expect it to be reliable or at least have an expectation that they might be able to keep you on the road by supplying a part or fixing a fault.   

I remember turning up for a service when it was raining cats & dogs and the service manager turned around and told his colleagues "I told you he'd turn up!"  - apparently if the weather's bad they find a lot of people cancel rather than ride their bike...

Any comment about performance / function of the bike is also usually met by 20 questions; "weaving you say? has sir fitted non-Harley tyres? has sir put in the required amount of air? has sir put a non-Harley branded item in the bags? does sir know how to ride a motorbicycle?" all of which usually ends up at "they all do that sir"

It was somewhat bizarre that at one point the dealership had no clear plan on what to do next and that I had to a) tell them what I wanted to do and b) phone up HD myself to complain - normally I'd have expected the dealer to already have contacted the manufacturer before admitting defeat to the customer. They did tell me that tech support from HD was probably better in the states but that it wasn't very good in the UK!....

Sadly we also don't have that many dealers to choose from and also don't have anything like the amount of independents - and try finding either that actually know anything about tuning and has a dyno.  Sources of Vance & Hines pipes and Harley T shirts are plentiful however....

HD dealers aren't the only motorcycle dealers where I've had poor service - the local BMW franchise changed hands and went downhill for a while (couldn't sell me some oil for topping up because the workshop had run out and needed to grab all the bottles from the sales floor so they could keep working!) but I think they've fixed that now.  But I have to say that overall I'm less than impressed and as I prefer to use my bike and rely on it I'm thinking of switching brands - maybe I'll come back to HD when I have the time (and spare cash) for a toy. When I was riding Brit bikes as my daily drivers and did a few vintage bike rallies I did like a couple of 45s that I saw regularly - maybe that's the way to go   




« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 11:07:26 AM by MightyTharg »
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MightyTharg

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Re: Canbus / ABS issues.
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2018, 11:21:52 AM »

First two years of owning my 07 dealers installed 5 new batteries under warranty. Next time I brought my battery tender with me and told them hook it up as I didn't want them milking warranty again for another.  :huepfenjump3:

Guess I'm lucky this is my first replacement battery then - they only charged me the one hour of labour for all of the investigative work and gave me the usual 10% discount on the battery so all in that was £270 (or approx $360) making this is far and away the most expensive battery (car or motorcycle) I've ever bought.  There's that premium pricing again.

Good news is that (so far) the bike is functioning normally with no faults no issues and it is running really well.

Now to visit the beer fridge before I sit back and peruse the emails from the BMW dealers and see what deals they're offering, it's probably a cheaper option than sticking with HD and emigrating to the US to get decent support    :drink:

Cheers

 
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MightyTharg

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Re: Canbus / ABS issues.
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2018, 11:28:50 AM »

And..... the bike is back at the dealership. Can't find any codes with my sepst but am getting the abs light on occasionally which then triggers the cel.
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MightyTharg

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Re: Canbus / ABS issues.
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2018, 12:01:22 PM »

Final update - everything is now fixed.

Dealer couldn't find anything wrong with the ABS as such, but they told me the ABS software was on the original factory version from 2015 and had never been updated, so they updated it latest.  The tech did tell me that HD makes puts all kinds of fixes and improvements into the later software updates..... which does beg the question of why did the dealer never update it on my bike over the last 3 years when it was in for servicing or when they were previously investigating the ABS when I had a CEL.

They also reflashed the ECU and they did find some radio faults and updated that software and they fixed a loose pin in one of the audio connectors in the bags.

So they're not entirely sure what the problem was, BUT the good news is that I rode the bike over 200 miles and everything is now operating faultlessly - absolutely no problems at all. 

So all's well that ends well and the bike is currently on it's way to it's new home.

 

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