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[JCZ]

I joined this forum in 2003 and the large majority of posts were positive, upbeat and happy.  Most were about mods or trips planned, GTGs (Get Togethers, if you're new here) and generally upbeat.

Lately, gradually at first but more so, I'd say in the past two or three years I've seen that go down hill.  A casual observation, not something I was really looking for.....it just kind of became more and more obvious to me.  Fewer and Fewer group rides, less interest in participating, more and more negative posts of bad news and generally a sense of unhappy or uneasy about their CVO.

This morning I clicked on "Show unread posts since last visit" like I usually do.  Not near as many threads or posts as their used to be years back and just about two thirds of the threads are negative....."sumped again......", "Harley sales down......", "4th Engine in my......", "Harley sales go from bad to worse.....", etc. etc.

Our economy is up, unemployment down so can't blame it on a recession or depression this time.  Where does it lye?  When will the MoCo wake up and realize that while they focus on the immediate return to their own pockets and that of the stock holeders long term, they're running this train full speed right in to the ground.

The million dollar question......will they wake up and pay attention to their customers before it's to late?  Will they focus on reliability, modern technology, their customers and make these things their priority and that in turn will carry the MoCo long term?  Like everybody, I have my thoughts and opinions on this......

[Dan_Lockwood]

I just think it's one of those cycles... 

[VaEagle]

I'm sure there is no one answer for all the issues mentioned.
Things like not many founding family members left to handle the day to day business, don't know how many decision makers are life long bikers that have a personal stake in the brand name or it's legacy. The fact that they must be business types first who look at H-D as a global business not just USA product so try to increase sales and in turn profits with growing overseas markets.
Then you had the marketing juggernaut of H-D that sold itself on years of nostalgia and tradition butting heads with government regulations on pollution and noise etc. and I bet that can interfere with a motor that was great for 1936 but now is difficult to comply with modern standards. They had a very loyal group of owners who romanticized their experience on a Harley and were very resistant to change.
That group of core riders are now aging out of riding or are finally tired of the higher and higher cost of buying new with all it's malfunctions and costs involved.
Harley did probably shoot itself in the foot with having the CVO line join the regular line in 2010 and it then became a trim package and could no longer sell riders on the mystique of a hand built bike that was worth the money.
In my opinion H-D needs to make bikes affordable to younger riders and make them turnkey bikes that you just buy and ride without having to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to run right or be useful. They also need to be competitive with horsepower and performance to build long term fans. It may mean having to break with us old timers who are set in our ways with air cooled v-twins though.

[Ironhorse]

JC, I am happy with my CVO, it’s about just where I want it. I have all the clothing and “stuff” I need. Keeping the CVO, but like you my next bike will be foreign.

Over the years I too have seen the GTGs drop off. Those were my favorite thing to do. Lately participation in the GTGs and MITMs have fallen off. I understand why, people have lives, kids, grandkids, jobs (unlike you retireees). Also the bigger groups have splintered off for convienence. By that I mean expecting a large number of bikes to head to Yellowstone at one time is difficult given what I said earlier. So the few that can do. The rest break into smaller groups and ride when it best fits their calendar.

Like you and many others, I too have had my share of planning large GTGs. So for now I plan simple rides with my splintered group, and invite everyone else to join if they can. This takes the pressure off from finding a block of rooms, securing a group rate, planning both long and short routes, finding dinner locations, designing and ordering t-shirts, bike games and all of that.

This year I have Yosemite planned in June. It’s posted in the ride forum, if folks can fit it in their calendar great. Next year I’m thinking either Glacier National Park, or back to Sedona, AZ. I’ll post that too, if it fits in people’s calendar great.

I’d love to see everyone, but I understand, folks have lives and conflicts.

[kojak]

I just think it's one of those cycles... 

I agree. Imagine what this forum would have looked like in the AMF days.

[Yellow09SERG]

JC, not been around no where near as long as you or most here (2012), but yes there are a lot of negative post, and will step on somes toes I am sure, but look at society in general anymore seems there is sure a lot of negativity in general. I get irradiated at work pretty regularly with all the negative people. I tell people at work quite often when they go to bitching that they made a choice when they walked through the door, and if that makes them unhappy then stop walking through the door and find something different to do. We all have our grips but we still make the choice. Some work in jobs they hate, some rides motorcycles the want to complain about, others can't stand what the wife cooked for supper. But all made a choice.

Me personally I enjoyed this forum, when there's a problem, there are still people here who will take the time to help and help you spend your money...lol.  I enjoy seeing others travels and thank you and all the others for posting and sharing. I hope I live long enough and my health allows me to visit some of the places the family here has shown me.

Really enjoy what's shared here, I just skip the negative parts

[yobtaf103]

I agree. Imagine what this forum would have looked like in the AMF days.

Maybe it's worse than AMF days !
Certainly no excuse of worn out tooling due to lack of inward investment etc etc

After the 110 motors woes, maybe this M8 a fail too far for many ?

[J.D.]

I can tolerate MoCo design mistakes quickly and ethically corrected.  Unfortunately they have taken a different path over the past 15-20 years.  I think we gripe because we care about this brand and US manufacturing.  I still enjoy my CVO but have no interest in buying another Harley as things are.

[iski]

Motorcycle sales are down, fewer new riders translates into fewer bikes sold. A lot of us here - I joined in 2007 - have had multiple HDs & we tend to remember "the best one(s)" but forget the time/effort/blood sweat/tears/$$$$ it took to get that bike into that shape.  HDs have had issues ever since I was aware of HD as a company.  Oil leakers, part failures, system failures, etc., etc. Not every bike, but generally problematic.  Now it's perceived as worse than it once was.  What happened?

Cars & other stuff got a lot better, fewer failures.  HD failure rate got some better, but not enough.  Meanwhile prices rise, buyers get older (and wiser) and expect more because the other stuff they have with engines does not mirror their experience with HD.  Bikes got more complicated, more chit to break than they used to have.

My other theory is, average riders got older.  We enjoy yelling "get off my porch" at whatever.  HD makes itself an easy target.  Customer service just about anywhere ain't what it used to be.  Would be easy enough for HD to set itself apart from that crowd - so far they do not do enough in that regard.  Part of their problem is people - as a society we are just not as customer service oriented as we once were. 

As HD goes further into shrink mode I wonder what the end result will be.  Hope they do not sell out to a megacorp, troubles would be compounded then.

[grc]

The "mood" of the forum changed as the quality and design issues increased and Harley's customer service got worse, and that's to be expected.  In the beginning it was like JC said, people talking about things like get-togethers and modifications.  It slowly changed into more and more threads about unresolved quality and customer service issues, until it has reached it's current state of being more about failures, how to try to prevent them, etc.  I'm not sure why anyone would find this unusual.  People who are experiencing multiple failures and lack of reliability with any product are more likely to want to talk about those things than they would be to come on a site and just talk about mods or trips.  If the product that's the focus of a forum is of high quality and is made and sold by an outstanding company, discussions on such a forum will likely be much more positive.  If the product is of low quality and reliability, made and sold by a company that only provides lip service instead of timely resolution of issues and true customer service, the negative stuff will naturally increase.  Don't blame the people on the forum.  As I mention on many tech threads, look for the root cause, not the symptoms. 

JMHO - Jerry

[JCZ]

The "mood" of the forum changed as the quality and design issues increased and Harley's customer service got worse, and that's to be expected.  In the beginning it was like JC said, people talking about things like get-togethers and modifications.  It slowly changed into more and more threads about unresolved quality and customer service issues, until it has reached it's current state of being more about failures, how to try to prevent them, etc.  I'm not sure why anyone would find this unusual.  People who are experiencing multiple failures and lack of reliability with any product are more likely to want to talk about those things than they would be to come on a site and just talk about mods or trips.  If the product that's the focus of a forum is of high quality and is made and sold by an outstanding company, discussions on such a forum will likely be much more positive.  If the product is of low quality and reliability, made and sold by a company that only provides lip service instead of timely resolution of issues and true customer service, the negative stuff will naturally increase.  Don't blame the people on the forum.  As I mention on many tech threads, look for the root cause, not the symptoms. 

JMHO - Jerry

Exactly my point Jerry however, I think some may have missed it.  I'm not casting any shadows on the members here....it's the lack of quality and customer service and the MoCo focusing more on the pockets of upper management and stock holders than on the product.  I thought I said that but it may have escaped some....

[mark]

Owning over 50% of the domestic market, inexplicable customer loyalty that was the envy of the corporate world, great marketing and branding of the product, demand greater than supply...these are what made HD so successful.  Add to that the post AMF reinvention just happened to coincide with the sweetspot of the largest generation's peak spending years.  It was the perfect storm for financial success.   But sadly, this is now what's killing it.  With such success, the MoCo had no motivation to try harder.  The result?  They started taking customers for granted and became fat and lazy.

The people on this forum are/were HD's most rabid customers.  If the "tone" of the posts have changed, I'd attribute that to product quality above anything else.  The posts started going south with the introduction of the 110 and continued down a negative path with the M8 issues.

[grc]

Exactly my point Jerry however, I think some may have missed it.  I'm not casting any shadows on the members here....it's the lack of quality and customer service and the MoCo focusing more on the pockets of upper management and stock holders than on the product.  I thought I said that but it may have escaped some....

You did say it quite well JC, I just thought I'd reinforce the point.  I've seen other threads where people with valid gripes have been criticized for speaking out instead of just being positive, and your thread seemed like a good opportunity to restate how I feel about the subject.

Jerry

[Ironhorse]

So it comes down to: its hard to be positive and up beat, to want to go to GTGs, when you have no confidence in a $40k machine you just bought. It’s hard to be positive when your new bike spends more time in the shop than on the road.

[Yellow09SERG]

Exactly my point Jerry however, I think some may have missed it.  I'm not casting any shadows on the members here....it's the lack of quality and customer service and the MoCo focusing more on the pockets of upper management and stock holders than on the product.  I thought I said that but it may have escaped some....

JC, I am probably the one that took it wrong, or at least posted it wrong. I fully agree with the quality of what we buy. If it is bought as garage candy then its a good ride, but if you bought it to ride then we will have to fix it to where we can ride it. How many of us used to have to throw an oil pan under the bike to keep the the garage floor clean? I bet a good portion of us did. I wonder why we bought another one? Did we expect it to be better? Yep probably so, and we also probably believe the next 2 we bought after that would be better. They had to be a little better. I no longer have to put an oil pan under the bike. Once HD went public and the share holder took over did we really think it would get better? HD has had one of the best marketing scams there ever was, they poured the Kool Aid and we drank. I can help to believe that the family knew the scam was running to a close, so they took the share holder money as well as ours. Like most of us my 09 has very little Harley left except for the badges on the tank, and figure they will sooner or later fall off. Would I buy another? Who knows but if I do I will knowing that sooner or later the only thing left on it HD will be the badges on the tank, just like what I ride now. I probably missed my earlier post. I knew it was a money pit when I bought it and bought it anyway. That choice is on me not HD. I just need to figure out what is in the Kool Aid