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Author Topic: Engine rebuild or swap?  (Read 4367 times)

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Backroads3

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Engine rebuild or swap?
« on: July 16, 2018, 01:14:22 PM »

New to the site.

I've got a 2010 SG and 110" that lost a couple lifters sending metal through so it needs a rebuild. I'm considering swapping out the 110" for a 120" street tuned crate engine. Anyone have experience with the 120" street? It is comparable in cost from the quotes so I'm leaning towards the 120" but I don't see any recent reviews with mileage. I've got 150,000 miles on the bike but I enjoy it and don't want to replace it.

I would appreciate any insight on the 120".
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Twolanerider

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Re: Engine rebuild or swap?
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2018, 05:57:54 PM »

The Harley 120?  If so can't help but ask; last night you wrote of potential suit and decried the lack of support from the MoCo handling your warranty.  Today you're buying a new engine from them..... :nixweiss:
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Fired00d

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Re: Engine rebuild or swap?
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2018, 06:51:57 PM »

The Harley 120?  If so can't help but ask; last night you wrote of potential suit and decried the lack of support from the MoCo handling your warranty.  Today you're buying a new engine from them..... :nixweiss:
Ok, what am I missing... the OP just joined today and this/that was his first post. :nixweiss:

Bro I think you're eyes are crossed a bit or dem voices in your head done got confused. :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:

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Twolanerider

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Re: Engine rebuild or swap?
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2018, 06:59:52 PM »

Ok, what am I missing... the OP just joined today and this/that was his first post. :nixweiss:

Bro I think you're eyes are crossed a bit or dem voices in your head done got confused. :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:

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Fired00d
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Sorry Gary (and original poster), saw the post and its story made me think it was a gentlemen that came in last night reposting several times of his dramatically failed engine.  Username was Scrap-something.  Scrapyard?  Not sure. 

Saw this post when waiting on line for food earlier.  Don't post while hungry and don't post when only thing old eyes can see are the little phone screen will the lessons here . :huepfenlol2: :drink:
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Twolanerider

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Re: Engine rebuild or swap?
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2018, 07:08:14 PM »

Just re-read the original post here.  It's not even close to the guy I was thinking about.  Yeap, definitely don't post while hungry (and distracted).


To his question.  I know personally of two 120R in service.  One as bare bones as it could be out of the crate.  Another that the owner changed lifters and cams in before putting the engine in the bike.  The former doesn't have enough miles on it in three years or so to say anything about reliability though the little bit I've been on it it runs ok.  I honestly expected a bit more out of it but it's ok.

The latter with the cam change also got a throttle body upgrade from the stock piece that was on the bike.  It's a really nice running bike.  Has (best guess) 35,000 miles on the engine in about 2 1/2 years.  Has given him no problems since its installation.
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sadunbar

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Re: Engine rebuild or swap?
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2018, 07:44:56 PM »

Just re-read the original post here.  It's not even close to the guy I was thinking about.  Yeap, definitely don't post while hungry (and distracted).


To his question.  I know personally of two 120R in service.  One as bare bones as it could be out of the crate.  Another that the owner changed lifters and cams in before putting the engine in the bike.  The former doesn't have enough miles on it in three years or so to say anything about reliability though the little bit I've been on it it runs ok.  I honestly expected a bit more out of it but it's ok.

The latter with the cam change also got a throttle body upgrade from the stock piece that was on the bike.  It's a really nice running bike.  Has (best guess) 35,000 miles on the engine in about 2 1/2 years.  Has given him no problems since its installation.

If the latter bike you refer to is mine, you are accurate and correct on all points, except I have changed lifters several times as preventative maintenance.   :)

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hd-dude

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Re: Engine rebuild or swap?
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2018, 08:03:49 PM »

Rebuild is fine if done right. If buying a crate motor pass on the HD 120 motor and get the S&S 124 Crate engine. If you do the new engine you will need a larger throttle body, larger injectors and a stronger clutch.

longlast

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Re: Engine rebuild or swap?
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2018, 08:16:48 PM »

If the latter bike you refer to is mine, you are accurate and correct on all points, except I have changed lifters several times as preventative maintenance.   :)

Out of curiosity, at what sort of mileage  do you change the lifters at?
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Twolanerider

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Re: Engine rebuild or swap?
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2018, 08:44:13 PM »

If the latter bike you refer to is mine, you are accurate and correct on all points, except I have changed lifters several times as preventative maintenance.   :)

I thought yours might be similar Scott.  Was describing one around here in a town called Afton.  Nice Road Glide I've been lucky enough to be around.
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TraumaSlave

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Re: Engine rebuild or swap?
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2018, 10:01:24 PM »

Your quotes in comparison of rebuild vs crate motor, does the crate $$ include install?  A few parts can add up quickly like the throttle body, in particular. Need (or should get) a new crank?  When I had mine rebuilt, I too thought about a crate motor but, budget kept me to rebuild.
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TorqueInc

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Re: Engine rebuild or swap?
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2018, 10:15:55 PM »

New to the site.

I've got a 2010 SG and 110" that lost a couple lifters sending metal through so it needs a rebuild. I'm considering swapping out the 110" for a 120" street tuned crate engine. Anyone have experience with the 120" street? It is comparable in cost from the quotes so I'm leaning towards the 120" but I don't see any recent reviews with mileage. I've got 150,000 miles on the bike but I enjoy it and don't want to replace it.

I would appreciate any insight on the 120".
The 120r/St aren't anything to write home about and you have a parts list that should be replaced in both pretty much right off the rip.
If you put 150k on a stock 110

Getting another 50-75 out of one that's built right would be cost effective to do and mileage would not be an issue

Lots of directions to go.....some better than others
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dayne66

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Re: Engine rebuild or swap?
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2018, 01:09:12 AM »

With the direction Harley is going.....and their repeatedly inflicting inferior products on us...and my local dealer being less than stellar.... I am thinking ABH..."Anything but Harley"....for any and all the replacement parts to keep my '12 alive and well!

Maybe ABH will catch on!?
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Re: Engine rebuild or swap?
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2018, 08:33:21 AM »


No skin in the game, but in my opinion I think hd-dude gave you the best advice if you decide to just replace the engine.  These days I have a lot more confidence in S&S than in H-D when it comes to quality, reliability, and standing behind the product.

JMHO - Jerry
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Re: Engine rebuild or swap?
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2018, 09:13:21 AM »

Out of curiosity, at what sort of mileage  do you change the lifters at?

The lifters start to take excessive time to pump up around 6,000 miles, like clockwork.  I take that as a sign...  Upon replacement, the lifters I have removed most all have developed excessive roller looseness, both axial and radial, which I attribute to roller bearing wear.  The brand of lifters make no difference.  SE, Woods, S&S, ect all have shown the same result.  For what it's worth, most of the miles on this bike are extended trips, usually in the Rocky Mountains riding two up pulling a Bushtec.  So high elevation, often high temperatures pulling a reasonably heavy load.  I run Mobil 1 V Twin.  I run a Jagg 10 row fan assisted oil cooler and I run thermostat controlled fans on the cylinder heads, so I control oil temperature as much as possible.  And I have tried several cams with various lift and gentle ramps in an effort to reduce lifter strain.  I have tried various valve spring types and pressure.  I have run the stock cam plate and oil pump, the stock cam plate and Thayer 3 stage oil pump, and the newest S&S camplate and oil pump.  All variations result in the same premature lifter wear, causing me to change lifters about as often as I change oil.  I am convinced this design has a basic oiling deficiency built into the design...  I decided a long time ago I would not buy a new bike until this design motor was replaced my the MOCO.  Unfortunately, the new design motor seems to have issues of its own.  Issues I prefer to not experience first hand.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 09:18:05 AM by sadunbar »
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Backroads3

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Re: Engine rebuild or swap?
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2018, 12:09:19 PM »

Thanks to everyone for the replies.

I bought a lifetime maintenance plan when I bought my bike new in 2010 from my local dealer. The plan covers all 5K and 10K interval services for as long as I own the bike. I can’t do an S&S motor because the dealer won’t cover a non-Harley engine.
The quotes are complete with labor, the rebuild was quoted at 18-20 hours and the swap at 10 hours. They are going to go through the trans with either choice. I have not had my lifters serviced though they were replaced at 75K because I had the cams changed under warranty because the front cylinder had a scratch.
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