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Author Topic: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?  (Read 6785 times)

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HD Street Performance

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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2018, 12:07:00 PM »

Think cylinder pressure, when adding duration and the associated later intake close after bdc coming up on compression you will lose cylinder pressure vs stock. That takes a hit down low unless something is done to recover the lost pressure. Porting helps as part of s matches package but in tests I have done a stock 96" picked up 7hp and 5 ft.lb. with no loss or gain down low. All thr goodness happened above 3000 rpm
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Nocvo

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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2018, 06:07:39 AM »

ProDrag I certainly am considering it !

NoCVO, I appreciate the graph but, the two “main” considerations are not listed. TTS150 and 24D.
Just trying to point out that a cam change can give decent gains, I used 32's in a stock 110 for awhile, it was loads better than stock to ride, how far you go depends on what you really want deep down.
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DBinSD

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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2018, 09:46:15 AM »

It’s a hard decision. :'(
I’m not looking for race power or torque.
I’m looking for a higher torque motor than stock 110CVO has. A solid puller that is just at home on the Dragon as it is Beartooth pass or North cascade Highway with passenger and gear.
My concern is, getting into the heads would dictate MORE work so that the internals will not get chewed up in 20k miles. :-\
I know the lifter issue and some oil pump bypass issues but, can a simple cam chest work over with lifters, rods, cams (TTS150), maybe TC3 pump, Fullsac DX headers, CVO exhausts w/ Fullsac 2.0 bore and Techmat achieve my goal.  :nixweiss:  :2vrolijk_21:
According to Steve it does.  :bananarock:
So continuing to tear the motor down and removing the heads may be more time, money and effort needed to achieve my goal? THAT is where OTHERS EXPERIENCE comes in !  :drink:
I have appreciated all those that have chimed in thus far, thanks. ;D
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FlaHeatWave

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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2018, 10:20:20 AM »

Since you don't want to remove the Heads / care about "race HP/TQ"...

The low end torque of the stock 255s is hard to beat,,, just do A/C, Pipes (not true duals, and use Mufflers with a smaller baffle,,, 1.75 no bigger than 2 inch) and a Tune,,,

S&S Premium Lifters, (cut stock Pushrods) and SE Adjustable Pushrods...

The most efficient route for what you're wanting,,, a foundation for future mods when/if you decide you want more...
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Scott7d

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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2018, 01:31:18 PM »

Since you don't want to remove the Heads / care about "race HP/TQ"...

The low end torque of the stock 255s is hard to beat,,, just do A/C, Pipes (not true duals, and use Mufflers with a smaller baffle,,, 1.75 no bigger than 2 inch) and a Tune,,,

The most efficient route for what you're wanting,,, a foundation for future mods when/if you decide you want more...

That's what I thought about based on the goals and riding description. Sounds like the OP would be happy with just a solid exhaust combo and tune while utilizing the cams already in there.
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MCE

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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2018, 10:09:05 PM »

Ask 100 people, you'll get a 100 answers. Two of them will be right.

If pulling the heads is off the table, your choices are narrowed down,
and your gains limited.

It's your decision. Budget and expected gains are proportional. Only
you know where those boundaries lie. 
« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 10:19:35 PM by MCE Performance »
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MCE

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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2018, 10:51:01 PM »

It’s a hard decision. :'(
I’m not looking for race power or torque.
I’m looking for a higher torque motor than stock 110CVO has. A solid puller that is just at home on the Dragon as it is Beartooth pass or North cascade Highway with passenger and gear.
My concern is, getting into the heads would dictate MORE work so that the internals will not get chewed up in 20k miles. :-\
I know the lifter issue and some oil pump bypass issues but, can a simple cam chest work over with lifters, rods, cams (TTS150), maybe TC3 pump, Fullsac DX headers, CVO exhausts w/ Fullsac 2.0 bore and Techmat achieve my goal.  :nixweiss:  :2vrolijk_21:
According to Steve it does.  :bananarock:
So continuing to tear the motor down and removing the heads may be more time, money and effort needed to achieve my goal? THAT is where OTHERS EXPERIENCE comes in !  :drink:
I have appreciated all those that have chimed in thus far, thanks. ;D

It's not all that difficult, although some people would like you to think it's rocket science.

As far as head work goes; A really good valve job is all you'd need. "Good", meaning high
flowing. (Performance valve job refers to high flow.)

The biggest flow improvements are found in the valve seat/valve profile on a street engine. 
A little work in the bowl is icing on the cake, but not mandatory. 
« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 10:52:37 PM by MCE Performance »
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HD Street Performance

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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2018, 09:31:30 AM »

Try back to back tests on the cvo matt, I have. The stock valve job, albeit not conventional flows better than you think. And to the OP and others I personally got rid of the se255 cams for many reasons, not low end torque or riding fun. The ramps are part of the reason they eat lifters.
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Nocvo

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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #38 on: December 07, 2018, 08:45:04 AM »

Try back to back tests on the cvo matt, I have. The stock valve job, albeit not conventional flows better than you think. And to the OP and others I personally got rid of the se255 cams for many reasons, not low end torque or riding fun. The ramps are part of the reason they eat lifters.

A bloke over here tested them, has his own bench and dynos, he published the results on the Aussie forum some time back. They do ok for a stock head.
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HD Street Performance

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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #39 on: December 07, 2018, 09:07:13 AM »

We are handed a factory part. We need to evaluate the shortcomings and its suitability to the motor displacement. In the case of the CVO head I am sure every porter puts their own spin of a valve job on them but the added airflow potential comes from other places with that head. Same goes with the fixing of the throat dimension with a larger intake valve. You can't just put the larger valve in and expect the rest of the geometry will follow suite and be happy just because the throat % is a little more favorable. Interesting to look at a very well known CNC version of this head that doesn't touch many of the areas of the head but works over others extensively.  Not to be confused with core shift, this is deliberate.
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Nocvo

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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #40 on: December 07, 2018, 10:31:10 AM »

Don, 10 years ago you and Dewey explained how to improve these heads simply, and on this forum to boot, search brings it up if anyone wants to look.
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HD Street Performance

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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #41 on: December 07, 2018, 10:47:21 AM »

I am well aware because I bought his business when he became disabled due to a stroke. That was 10 years ago.
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Nocvo

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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #42 on: December 07, 2018, 11:01:58 AM »

I'm aware of that to, I've been ghosting these forums a long time under one name or another, my point was that the solution has been around a long time, I have a question though, if one goes the 2.125" intake valve route would the SE 10.5 pistons need any valve relief work? Obviously you would measure and clay but as a rule?
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HD Street Performance

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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #43 on: December 07, 2018, 11:48:58 AM »

There are no hard fast rules on the bigger valve and clearance because it would depend on how much was milled and the thickness of the gasket plus the TDC lift during overlap. Bottom line is they should all be checked.

And regarding the valve change, it is not the worst thing to do or even bad just don't expect it to pay off with big of dividends as touted without fixing the rest of the port geometry. My point is time marches on and solutions evolve with change. I respect Dewey and what he told me years ago but if he would have gone on, mind you the twin cam was a 2007 110, he was messing with in 2008 (not many test cases yet), he would have got the flow bench he had ordered and been able to see hundreds of test cases with the passage of time. I rode his bike 2007 CVO springer, it was fun. His 95" Dyna would smoke it however with a 1.94 intake valve. Just one small element out of the big picture.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 12:48:02 PM by HD Street Performance »
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Nocvo

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Re: More TQ w/ Not alot of head work?
« Reply #44 on: December 07, 2018, 02:13:01 PM »

Thanks for that very balanced reply Don, appreciate it.
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