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[Eqcons]

Hi all.

A simple (and as usual, probably stoopid!) question.   I'm about to set off on a 5000 mile tour.  I have the Thundermax and autotune, which seems fine, and I have my head round it all now.  My "normal" mufflers are Screamin Eagle Performance 65115-98B, but while I LURVE their sound, they are too noisy for 10 days of 500 miles, so I've bought a pair of 65259-00 "Touring Mufflers" (I think these were stock on SE bikes a couple of years back???)

Question is - hopefully the TMax will Autotune on the fly for these, and can cope with the fact that I still have loads of air going in, but a more restrictive exhaust, (i.e. I don't have to change anything on my map!) then when I get home and swap back to my Performance pipes, it'll autotune back again?

Cheers,

Jim

[Unbalanced]

Eqcons,

It should be able to learn with in "20 percent" and it should adjust for you based on the change in the muffler provided your within a "20 percent range" which I think you should be.   I built a map based on a 2 into 1 vs. true dual pipe and it seemed to learn that ok as well.   I would try and go out for a dinner ride and try and put 40 or 50 miles on it to be sure before you left it should have a good grasp on the learning by that time.  The other thing you may want to consider is based on your map is possibly pulling up the fuel curve in the low throttle range to a higher range of fuel ie .. if your at 13.0 you may want to consider 13.7 etc as the target to get a bit more economy.   My problem was that when I took my trip I was at 13.0 to 1 and only got  25-29 miles per gallon when we were running highway speeds of 70 - 80.  When we backed the speeds down to 25-55 it came up to about 35/36 mpg.    Or if you dont feel comfortable with changing the map you may consider an override to say 14 to 1 across the board to no kill your economy and still have some performance.   

Have a great trip and be safe,

[Eqcons]

Eqcons,

It should be able to learn with in "20 percent" and it should adjust for you based on the change in the muffler provided your within a "20 percent range" which I think you should be.   I built a map based on a 2 into 1 vs. true dual pipe and it seemed to learn that ok as well.   I would try and go out for a dinner ride and try and put 40 or 50 miles on it to be sure before you left it should have a good grasp on the learning by that time.  The other thing you may want to consider is based on your map is possibly pulling up the fuel curve in the low throttle range to a higher range of fuel ie .. if your at 13.0 you may want to consider 13.7 etc as the target to get a bit more economy.   My problem was that when I took my trip I was at 13.0 to 1 and only got  25-29 miles per gallon when we were running highway speeds of 70 - 80.  When we backed the speeds down to 25-55 it came up to about 35/36 mpg.    Or if you dont feel comfortable with changing the map you may consider an override to say 14 to 1 across the board to no kill your economy and still have some performance.   

Have a great trip and be safe,

Thanks UnB.  I thought about leaning out the mixture between say 2500rpm and 3500rpm by a little, but as I'm heading into very hot weather, I wondered if I should do that, or leave as is to help cooling?  What do you think?

Jim

[Twolanerider]

Eqcons,

It should be able to learn with in "20 percent" and it should adjust for you based on the change in the muffler provided your within a "20 percent range" which I think you should be.   I built a map based on a 2 into 1 vs. true dual pipe and it seemed to learn that ok as well.   I would try and go out for a dinner ride and try and put 40 or 50 miles on it to be sure before you left it should have a good grasp on the learning by that time.  The other thing you may want to consider is based on your map is possibly pulling up the fuel curve in the low throttle range to a higher range of fuel ie .. if your at 13.0 you may want to consider 13.7 etc as the target to get a bit more economy.   My problem was that when I took my trip I was at 13.0 to 1 and only got  25-29 miles per gallon when we were running highway speeds of 70 - 80.  When we backed the speeds down to 25-55 it came up to about 35/36 mpg.    Or if you dont feel comfortable with changing the map you may consider an override to say 14 to 1 across the board to no kill your economy and still have some performance.   

Have a great trip and be safe,

Harry, I had intended to lean out the 13:1 mixture for a bit of economy's sake on longer trips; until the weather warmed up.

Counting my own there are three bikes I'm familiar here close to me with the TM and AT.  All started suffering detonation when we passed from winter and early springs to days around 80 or above.  Accelerating within the highway cruising RPM range or pulling from there.

Warmer days have, of course, made it even worse.  I've already retarded the timing to compensate for it.  But as the days have gotten warmer yet the problem recurs.  After having mentioned it in passing once here several others have PMd saying they'd had or were having similar issues.

It's quite frankly a bit annoying that the maps are tuned so aggressively (for the sake of numbers?) that they can't be ridden in the summer time.  Or perhaps they tune in a dyno room that is just too well air conditioned for use then in real world application.  Whatever the reason it's an annoyance.

I've already taken enough out of mine that I can feel it in the seat-of-the-pants-dyno rather appreciably.  Unless they have some different base mapping to work things differently I'm still going to have to take more out of it too.

I don't fault the hardware at all here.  In fact the hardware is great as it allows us to do things and compensate for issues ourselves that could not otherwise be done.  The base map provided to be used by the hardware, however, is for me (and others) a pinging SOB in even moderately warm weather though.

[Unbalanced]

Eqcons,

I would say from 2000 - 3500 from 14.9% throttle which is about 10 blocks over left to right to say about half way across is all you have to do unless you use the override. then you make a gradual ramp decline to where it is like feathering it in so its not such a harsh drop.  This is for your low throttle areas you will be really surprised how much you actually ride in 5 to 20 from your starting position.   You still want the fuel up high and at idle,  but in the riding ranges of low throttle you will want the economy. 

[Eqcons]

Eqcons,

I would say from 2000 - 3500 from 14.9% throttle which is about 10 blocks over left to right to say about half way across is all you have to do unless you use the override. then you make a gradual ramp decline to where it is like feathering it in so its not such a harsh drop.  This is for your low throttle areas you will be really surprised how much you actually ride in 5 to 20 from your starting position.   You still want the fuel up high and at idle,  but in the riding ranges of low throttle you will want the economy. 

I see 2L has raised the question of leaning it out when the weather is hot, just as I was wondering..... Hmmmmm.... now I dunno what to do!

Jim

[Unbalanced]

Eqcons,

I actually had some of that detonation as well even at 13 to 1 on my trip which concerned me a lot.   I think the timing is aggressive, and will most like satisfy myself when replaying with it to again lean it out for partial throttle and then take some of the timing out of the motor in the spots where i see the concerns.

The 2 places I really noticed it was 2nd and 3rd gear going from small amout of throttle to twisting it pretty good I would get some tapping / detonation and when I was in a high gear cruising and going to pass a car when at say 2500 rpm nailing it to go around.

In either case I would rather have the gas mileage and give up a little in the numbers than have it too rich so to speak and actually still have some detonation just not be able to hear it or see it happening.

For me this is still my touring bike so I am more willing to go give up a little to maintain its rideability.

[Eqcons]

For me this is still my touring bike so I am more willing to go give up a little to maintain its rideability.

Same here, UnB.

Jim

[Twolanerider]

Same here, UnB.

Jim

Rideability with the reliability is the goal Jim.  The question is how much detuning has to be done to gain that.  It's not as if original parts ordered were made "a combination of parts and tuning that's reliable and safe, in the winter." 

[Eqcons]

Rideability with the reliability is the goal Jim.  The question is how much detuning has to be done to gain that.  It's not as if original parts ordered were made "a combination of parts and tuning that's reliable and safe, in the winter." 

Yes, I agree, 2L. I'm going to leave as is for the moment I think.  I'll have 5000 miles in 2 weeks to let me form a better picture.

Jim

[Jester_Red07]

Eqcons,

It should be able to learn with in "20 percent" and it should adjust for you based on the change in the muffler provided your within a "20 percent range" which I think you should be.   I built a map based on a 2 into 1 vs. true dual pipe and it seemed to learn that ok as well.   I would try and go out for a dinner ride and try and put 40 or 50 miles on it to be sure before you left it should have a good grasp on the learning by that time.  The other thing you may want to consider is based on your map is possibly pulling up the fuel curve in the low throttle range to a higher range of fuel ie .. if your at 13.0 you may want to consider 13.7 etc as the target to get a bit more economy.   My problem was that when I took my trip I was at 13.0 to 1 and only got  25-29 miles per gallon when we were running highway speeds of 70 - 80.  When we backed the speeds down to 25-55 it came up to about 35/36 mpg.    Or if you dont feel comfortable with changing the map you may consider an override to say 14 to 1 across the board to no kill your economy and still have some performance.   

Have a great trip and be safe,

   I think it is 20% each time you start your bike??? Which that value can be adjusted if I am not mistaken. Can be adjusted for a faster learning curve???

[SBB]

It's a trip reading how you guys are all the time adjusting values, fuel cells, etc. Constantly changing from 13.1 to 14.9 and never leaving it alone.
Where is that happy medium?
My Frontier is 140.9H/P, 141.1T and averages 38 to 40 miles to the gallon.
I have changed oil twice in the past 6 months and the motor now has 5K miles on it.
Other than checking the plugs (checking, not changing) the motor hasn't been touched.
It runs good enough to outrun a 124" SEEG (rated at 147H/P, I was told,  not that I believed that).

Lets see, spend more time tuning and trying to get 1 more pony and reach nirvana with my fuel curve or,
GO RIDING


hmmmmmmmm

No contest there!
Go riding wins!

No offense to all of you that want, need or expect perfection from your motors but my goal is satisfaction not perfection.
Simply put, if it runs the way I expect it to, then it may not be perfect but I'm satisfied.
And sometimes, it is all about me! And I have Nancy's permission to say that!


S
  /
    B

[HogBreath]

It's a trip reading how you guys are all the time adjusting values, fuel cells, etc. Constantly changing from 13.1 to 14.9 and never leaving it alone.
Where is that happy medium?
My Frontier is 140.9H/P, 141.1T and averages 38 to 40 miles to the gallon.
I have changed oil twice in the past 6 months and the motor now has 5K miles on it.
Other than checking the plugs (checking, not changing) the motor hasn't been touched.
It runs good enough to outrun a 124" SEEG (rated at 147H/P, I was told,  not that I believed that).

Lets see, spend more time tuning and trying to get 1 more pony and reach nirvana with my fuel curve or,
GO RIDING


hmmmmmmmm

No contest there!
Go riding wins!

No offense to all of you that want, need or expect perfection from your motors but my goal is satisfaction not perfection.
Simply put, if it runs the way I expect it to, then it may not be perfect but I'm satisfied.
And sometimes, it is all about me! And I have Nancy's permission to say that!


S
  /
    B

My 110 gets 39-41 MPG at 141.9 HP, and 142.1 T. And, it's bone stock. 

[SBB]

My 110 gets 39-41 MPG at 141.9 HP, and 142.1 T. And, it's bone stock. 

OK H/B

Fess up
NOW

Was that before or after you and JD spent the night at the Holiday Inn?
Inquiring minds really want to know!

 


Edited to add

After review of your #'s on that stock motor it appears that we are evenly matched.
I guess this contest will ultimately be decided on which one of us is better looking!

Scary HUH?

 

[HogBreath]

OK H/B

Fess up
NOW

Was that before or after you and JD spent the night at the Holiday Inn?
Inquiring minds really want to know!

 


Edited to add

After review of your #'s on that stock motor it appears that we are evenly matched.
I guess this contest will ultimately be decided on which one of us is better looking!

Scary HUH?

 

Before and after the Holiday Inn stay.

Better looking? *hair toss* I'd win that one, as long as  your mom isn't the judge. LOL