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[TallyClassic]

I too have had a problem with the detonation in the 2500 range under light throttle and then needing to accellerate.
I took all the new updates to the software and ECM and also went to the new map for the 103. 
BTW....my plugs were always black and sooty.  Never the light tan they were supposed to be.

Anyway, the changes I've made have eliminated the ping, maintained gas mileage and the bike feels quite a bit smoother.

Bike only has Fat Cats with the standard baffle and a BigSuckerII aircleaner.

[Twolanerider]

Now, you start the bike, then activate the link, then activate the auto IAC and wait and monitor until the temp is up to 289. Not 295, or 275, but 289 +- 1 or 2.

Rhino, I have worked from a clean map to make changes.  The IAC suggestions you offer here may even be at variance with Zippers itself is suggesting anymore.  Reported in another thread here recently is that the latest version of the Zippers manual (in PDF form on their website) isn't even doing the full IAC link and train as part of the basic setup anymore.  The recommendation now is to have loaded the latest firmware update, clear your old IAC training, then (without engaging the IAC training mode) start the bike and let it run to 289.  Then shut off, etc. 

I wish I could get rid of the ping on the red bike.  I have worked with it as you suggested.  I readily agree that the problem isn't hardware but implementation of that hardware via the Zipper's provided map.  The map I'm currently use in fact has only the alteration in it for retarded timing.  Just trying to see how retarded it would have to go to get rid of detonation.

So far, no soap.  That some might be worse than others is of course to be expected.  That some would therefore be solved with less effort than others is then also to be expected.  Mine, so far, has not fully resolved from the more obvious and direct changes one would make to compensate for the problem that is hoping to be compensated for.  From what Fr8trn, and others, have written, I'm not alone.

That mine (and others) has not resolved with those obvious changes is why support from Zippers has been requested.  If anyone is going to over guidance as to how to better implement their hardware to actually make the bikes rideable in summer weather (one would hope) it would be them.  Alternatively, if they can offer an effective solution that addresses and corrects the problem without gutting performance it would also be them that would offer other alternative solutions.

[Rhino]

Hey Twolane,

I am familiar with the IAC.  The last part, the part where it asked for you to 'align' the mark after is gone.  If they also eliminated the temp to 289 range on the IAC autotune, it is news to me. It is something that I always do, but it can be optional, so the regulars don't mess things up.   I can't then understand why someone indicated it to run to 289 WITHOUT engaging IAC. Duh, what does that do.

As it goes back to what I was saying, the clearing of all offsets is a major issue.  A lot of people make assumptions about the manual. It could have been written a bit easier for interpretation. I can only tell what I have actually done, and expereinced and experimented with. I do not go with what is supposed to work, just what does work.

[Twolanerider]

Hey Twolane,

I am familiar with the IAC.  The last part, the part where it asked for you to 'align' the mark after is gone.  If they also eliminated the temp to 289 range on the IAC autotune, it is news to me.

Sorry Rhino, if that's the way it came across it wasn't what I intended.  Still running it up to temp.  Just not chasing the line.  Exactly as you describe here.

[Rhino]

I understand.  My experience helping a lot of folok with this unit is that I always find they do not exactly interpret or read the tiny hidden detail in the manual.  But I have no problems helping out, becasue I sincerely think this is one super product.

Now, another finally, one that I briefl;y addressed regarding the fuel.  On occassion, I get a ping, but I know it is a bad batch of fuel. Simple enough. The Autotune has already been comfortable on a good tank, then you introduce some crap, and it has a hard time, certainly not enought otry and re-lean the firing points that lower octane presents to it.   

Everyone does know I hope, that the only way you can run these bikes is with premium fuel.  The 93 octane is nice, but down here, it is very rare. The best I can find says 91, and that's where occassionally I have a problem, becasue it's not true premium, it probably has some additives to make it seem so.

Finaly, ADDITIVES. Octane boosters, injector cleaners and the like. DO NOT EVEN THINK about it. It is not neccessary, and it will mask the O2 SEnsor, and ultimately coat it and ruin it.

Have a Z day,

Rhino

[Unbalanced]

Wow Rhino (hoist jr.) are you trying to boost your post count or what lately...    Hey mods cant you put all that into 1 .... hehe

[Talon]

What's needed here!!!!

[Hoist!]

Wow Rhino (hoist jr.) are you trying to boost your post count or what lately...    Hey mods cant you put all that into 1 .... hehe

Only if he adds w.....ty discussions too! Hoist!

[Rhino]

I am not going for any records, but I am the self appointed Tmax guy.
And I am good at it.
Rhino

[SBB]

Don

Good luck with your tuning!
I would help but the BFH would be a little overkill.


Hoist

I have a great SERT man down here. But I think you know of a good one up there.
Since I'm a little bored and it's raining maybe I will go to the garage and hook up the Commadore 64 to the 50cc scooters so I can adjust the cell values and the fuel curve.


Rhino

I applaud your efforts to help these guys. I would throw in some technical advice on this subject but since I don't know any I will stick to riding. Not sure what your post meant but if anyone can comprehend it, TwoLane will be the man. I look forward to meeting and riding with you some day. Just remember I have that old school SERT and may not be operating at maximum efficiency!

Sure wish the rain would stop here.
I'm bored!
I'm ready to ride!


S
  /
    B

 

[Midnight Rider]

Don

Good luck with your tuning!
I would help but the BFH would be a little overkill.


Hoist

I have a great SERT man down here. But I think you know of a good one up there.
Since I'm a little bored and it's raining maybe I will go to the garage and hook up the Commadore 64 to the 50cc scooters so I can adjust the cell values and the fuel curve.


Rhino

I applaud your efforts to help these guys. I would throw in some technical advice on this subject but since I don't know any I will stick to riding. Not sure what your post meant but if anyone can comprehend it, TwoLane will be the man. I look forward to meeting and riding with you some day. Just remember I have that old school SERT and may not be operating at maximum efficiency!

Sure wish the rain would stop here.
I'm bored!
I'm ready to ride!


S
  /
    B

 

Now that's some funny chit, I don't care who you are...

[Hoist!]

Don

Good luck with your tuning!
I would help but the BFH would be a little overkill.


Hoist

I have a great SERT man down here. But I think you know of a good one up there.
Since I'm a little bored and it's raining maybe I will go to the garage and hook up the Commadore 64 to the 50cc scooters so I can adjust the cell values and the fuel curve.


Rhino

I applaud your efforts to help these guys. I would throw in some technical advice on this subject but since I don't know any I will stick to riding. Not sure what your post meant but if anyone can comprehend it, TwoLane will be the man. I look forward to meeting and riding with you some day. Just remember I have that old school SERT and may not be operating at maximum efficiency!

Sure wish the rain would stop here.
I'm bored!
I'm ready to ride!


S
  /
    B

 

Terry I fully agree! That's some funny chit man! Chip you done good! The whole post is extremely entertaining!!! Hoist!

[Rhino]

SB
"if anyone can comprehend it, TwoLane will be the man. I look forward to meeting and riding with you some day. Just remember I have that old school SERT and may not be operating at maximum efficiency!"


Hey SB,

I hear whatever you may lack in efficiency you make up for it with brute HP.  Of course that works!  Me, I like the TMAX, the user interfaces are easy, and when it gets tough, like mixing parts that don't make up a map that is in the Zippers file, well, then I make a custom one, but then, it takes a dyno to play. And some patience. Not everyone has the time to do it, but, if you follow, the TMAX benefits from existing maps that are already on file with Zippers.  It takes them many many hours to develop a map, I even heard them referred to as the Mapping Company. 

Then for each application, the TMAX can go either side of perfect on the map they developed, to allow for differences on the bike you own, correcting things automatically, and making your map perfect.   For you, the old sert guy, one difference is that when you start with a map from Harley for the SERT, you MUST then tune it for your specific bike, and it is then accomplished whereas the hard work is already done, and the TMAX does the rest after the base map install, automatically.

If Twolane has this nailed, fine. But I see he is having pinging and hot weather problems.  But believe me, there is no way that the TMAX will change its running habits in hot or cold weather, and the ping, I'll bet is is the fuel.  HOWEVER (always the caveat) What you will see when the weather changes is the performance.  The air density is substantially reduced when it is hot, or when at high altitude, it comes into play.  Density, means just that. The air is more dense. The molecules are closer together. You get more good air, and the TMAX will feed more fuel the colder, and lower your elevation.  The density altitude, which affects all this, on a normally aspirated engine, when it is hot, actually simulates a higher running altitude.  It is the pressure altitude actually. 

Anyway, bikes run better when cool, unless turbocharged.  Bikes lose a lot of HP when high up, or real hot.  Air Fuel ratios are automatically adjusted in the TMAX for excactly these conditions.   The only culprit I can see is bad fuel, or the unlikely clogged fuel filter, restricting flow at high rpms.

So, I am done, did my post allocation for the week, now I can go ride and do a couple wheelies before dark.

Rhino

[Twolanerider]

Don

Good luck with your tuning!
I would help but the BFH would be a little overkill.

Chip, not that frustrated with it.   (yet!) 

If it ever gets that bad I'll call you though.  We'll uninstall that bitch on beat on it with two BFH if that ever happens.

[Twolanerider]

Anyway, bikes run better when cool, unless turbocharged.  Bikes lose a lot of HP when high up, or real hot.  Air Fuel ratios are automatically adjusted in the TMAX for excactly these conditions.   The only culprit I can see is bad fuel, or the unlikely clogged fuel filter, restricting flow at high rpms.

So, I am done, did my post allocation for the week, now I can go ride and do a couple wheelies before dark.

Rhino

Don't disagree with the foundations of any of that Rhino.  Unfortunately with the onset of warmer weather I've been seeing it across multiple tanks of fuel from different labels.  Do know the fuel filter is clean too.  Damn thing just pings  .  Hotter the ambient temp the worse it is.  Really warm days the little red bitch will ping hard if you're not careful with it.  And that's before it hits altitude when I take it over the Rockies in summer and drier air next month.