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[sadunbar]

So, I am on day 1 of an 8 day 3000 mile trip...about 450 miles from home...and my rear head gasket has started leaking oil...rear fins are wet... a few drops of oil on the top of the chrome transmission cover.

For those of you have experienced this problem, what should I expect in the next 2500 miles until I get home?

The bike seems to be running fine.  The spark plug is dry...   I wiped the oil off the trans cover mid day, and had a few more drops at the next gas stop.  I have not leaked enough oil to notice it on the dip stick yet...

I brought a couple of quarts of oil with me, so replenish the leakage is no problem.  Is anything worse then leaking a bit of oil likely to occur before I get home??

Scott

[Rhino]

Probably not.  It is annoying, and stays a slow leak. I woould use a little dispersant to clean off the oil well, and ride on.   The motor will accumulate oil at the bottom of the cylinder. It does dilute your fuel mix a bit, so a little power gone, and also, a little compression.   It is something to attend to when you get home.

In the install of the new head gasket, it is the responsibility of the installer to MAKE SURE THE GASKET IS CENTERED when reinstalling, not off to one side or the other, but carefully placed so the dowel holes are actualy surrounding with the raised beads on the gasket. If installed incorrectly, it can pinch a side of the bead, and results in a leak. You know, like we now have/had.  Opening iup you can see what I mean.  In addition, I was told, and got, new piston rings on front and rear too, becasue it was recommended by the dealer, under warranty too.

Enjoy the trip!!!

Rhino

So, I am on day 1 of an 8 day 3000 mile trip...about 450 miles from home...and my rear head gasket has started leaking oil...rear fins are wet... a few drops of oil on the top of the chrome transmission cover.

For those of you have experienced this problem, what should I expect in the next 2500 miles until I get home?

The bike seems to be running fine.  The spark plug is dry...   I wiped the oil off the trans cover mid day, and had a few more drops at the next gas stop.  I have not leaked enough oil to notice it on the dip stick yet...

I brought a couple of quarts of oil with me, so replenish the leakage is no problem.  Is anything worse then leaking a bit of oil likely to occur before I get home??

Scott

[sadunbar]

Probably not.  It is annoying, and stays a slow leak. I woould use a little dispersant to clean off the oil well, and ride on.   The motor will accumulate oil at the bottom of the cylinder. It does dilute your fuel mix a bit, so a little power gone, and also, a little compression.   It is something to attend to when you get home.

In the install of the new head gasket, it is the responsibility of the installer to MAKE SURE THE GASKET IS CENTERED when reinstalling, not off to one side or the other, but carefully placed so the dowel holes are actualy surrounding with the raised beads on the gasket. If installed incorrectly, it can pinch a side of the bead, and results in a leak. You know, like we now have/had.  Opening iup you can see what I mean.  In addition, I was told, and got, new piston rings on front and rear too, becasue it was recommended by the dealer, under warranty too.

Enjoy the trip!!!

Rhino

Thanks Ron....an unwelcome annoyance...not jjust the leak, but now also having to deal with getting it repaired correctly - whatever that is...

Scott

[skreminegul07]

Many of us are getting cylinders changed.  Just one until you remind them that you are not having a motor with 5000 on the front half and zero on the rear half.  Write and call before it gets ripped appart and you are not vulnerable to "whatever just to get it back" syndrome. 
My two cents.  Try to maintain some kind of an advantage in the situation which is difficult.

[Rhino]

I did have the rear cylinder changed, but that was per Harley. We took down the front one anyway, and checked it also since we were doing pistons rings.  Both the rear, and the front were as round and clean as could be, the rear was a bit oily, but when cleaned, looked new. Changed it anyway.  Could not see any differences even minutely with the new vs. old rear.  We did upgrade both head gaskets, that is important, to maintain spacing for compression on F & R, and that was it.  I still think that proper new gasket placement is critical, and frankly, that is the only focus one can use, since there is no other rescue or solution coming from MOCO.  I also hear that the new gasket is leaking in a few instances.  But I am not 100% absolutely sure that it is not from install.  You have a gasket with the 4 dowel holes, and other curves and spacing.  I think setting them correctly, at least would minimize that issue.  I do not think it has anything to do with 'porosity'. I think it does have something to do with the holes and alignment and the specs on the gasket, which need to mate perfectly on the cyl, and the head, and the dowels.  Other than that, I do not think  it is anything other than the gasket issue, certainly not a mechanical defect.  JMHO Rhino

Many of us are getting cylinders changed.  Just one until you remind them that you are not having a motor with 5000 on the front half and zero on the rear half.  Write and call before it gets ripped appart and you are not vulnerable to "whatever just to get it back" syndrome. 
My two cents.  Try to maintain some kind of an advantage in the situation which is difficult.

[skreminegul07]

Rhino,
From what I have heard, its that the cylinders are not machined square, even the replacements.  My SM is going to check them with a Torque plate before installation and send them out to be squared if off.  It has to be more than just gaskets.  IMO.

[Rhino]

I heard that too, but my guy checked and said not.  I think it is the gasket, AND the small area it has to seat between the wall and the dowels, AND the size of the gasket holes around the dowels.   I don't think it allows the gasket to be wide enough in that area, but we may never actually know. JMHO.

I am curiious to hear your results with your SM. PLEASE post, even if it is ruled out.   
Rhino

Rhino,
From what I have heard, its that the cylinders are not machined square, even the replacements.  My SM is going to check them with a Torque plate before installation and send them out to be squared if off.  It has to be more than just gaskets.  IMO.

[skreminegul07]

I heard that too, but my guy checked and said not.  I think it is the gasket, AND the small area it has to seat between the wall and the dowels, AND the size of the gasket holes around the dowels.   I don't think it allows the gasket to be wide enough in that area, but we may never actually know. JMHO.

I am curiious to hear your results with your SM. PLEASE post, even if it is ruled out.   
Rhino

Rhino,
I think ultimately it comes down to the fact the 110" is too much for these jugs.  Not enough material left to seal properly and not enough material to handle the heat.  The heat being the most likely factor to the movement and or distortion of the two sealing surfaces.  This moveemnt eventually leads to gasket failure.  I also think this oil is too thin any will pass thru places heavy oil could not.  Not a scientific explanation, but JMHO.  A guaranteed fix is 113" jugs.

[Rhino]

If one goes to 113's, then new heads, rockers, manifold, + lots more .... interesting...  If I did a conversion to a 113 from my 110 now, how much would THAT be?  I think it may be unaffordable. How about a direct to 120 instead?  I still am interested in finding out what your SM says too.  With deep pockets I would squeeze a 131 in it and be done, after taking it to a 145 putting out 180/180.  Seriously, I am sure MOCO will warranty it until they find a permanent cure, but a lot of that depends on how many break. Our group is unusual in the fact that we ride 1K per month. MOCO may not have thought that as part of the equation. Oh well, whooo knows. If it breaks, it can be fixed...on MOCO.  But now, I am a happy camper 12K of fun and 314 days of ownership and 3 days of down time due to mechanicals, and 2 days down for inspections. Not a bad average...so far.

Rhino

Rhino,
I think ultimately it comes down to the fact the 110" is too much for these jugs.  Not enough material left to seal properly and not enough material to handle the heat.  The heat being the most likely factor to the movement and or distortion of the two sealing surfaces.  This moveemnt eventually leads to gasket failure.  I also think this oil is too thin any will pass thru places heavy oil could not.  Not a scientific explanation, but JMHO.  A guaranteed fix is 113" jugs.

[sadunbar]

So, I lasted another 500 miles today with a similiar amount of leakage from the rear cylinder head gasket.  I still have not lost enough oil to notice it on the dip stick...temps were normal...power was normal...

But, I encountered a new adventure today...while crossing the Mackinac Bridge to meet up with the rest our group (heading to Toronto, then Niagria Falls), my radio went blank (no power), along with my accessory circuit (Garmin Zumo), no turn signals, and the oil temperature gage lost power.  All other gages and the rest of the bike was still powered and the bike was running normal.  So, I made it across the bridge and located the rest of our group (making us 11).  We stopped at the tourist area on the south end of the bridge.  I shut the bike off by turning off the ignition switch at the handle bar, then turned the ignition switch back on, fuel pump fired as normal, then hit the starter button - and had nothing.  So, I turned off the main power switch, turned it back on, and everything powered back up.  The radio turned on, accy switch was working, oil temp gage was working - everything back to normal.  I hit the starter - the bike fired up and has been running normal ever since.  I had previously had no electrical issues with the bike.  Thoughts anyone?  The combination of what was working and what wasn't must mean something...

I hit the magic 5000 mile mark on the bike today - must be like turning 40 years old...   The adventure continues.....

Scott

[Hoist!]

I found mine leaking at around 3500 miles in Atlanta and rode it that way the rest of the trip, and put another 2000 miles on it before tearing it down. The leak got worse but never enough to notice it on the dipstick. I believe Rhino hit the problem on the head with the gasket as the problem. But it's more than just centering it. There was discussion of out of square cylinders because the new '07A gasket they came out with didn't work either. The 113 and larger bore engines, that use HD cases and the stock cylinder stud pattern, use metal racing style head gaskets. HD decided to use paper/cardboard type gaskets. There isn't enough space between the piston opening and the stud hole for this type of gasket to hold up. Especially with the heat these things make, which expands and contracts everything even more. You do need to properly align the gasket, but until they change to the metal gaskets, IMO they will eventually leak again. The 113" is not a street legal mod from HD, and you buy everything for it. Since they're selling it to you, they provide a more expensive metal gasket and I hear they hold up fine. That's with a bigger bore and higher compression. So do the 120's and 124's. What does that tell you! We'll see I guess. I'm using a metal gasket now. If it holds up, I think we're on to something. If not, it's back to the drawing board. I'm hearing rumors of new cylinder design, but haven't confirmed that yet. But try using the metal Cometic Head Gasket instead of the HD if they'll let you. I think that will take care of it, if it's installed properly. JMO here, but I think since djkak first brought this up, it makes the most sense.

The problem shows up 2 ways. A head gasket leak, which leaks at the bottom of the head under the exhaust port, and/or it leaks past the head gasket and into the cylinder stud hole, and eventually appears as a base gasket leak. But since the stud holes are outside of the base gasket O-ring, it will eventually seep from the bottom of the cylinder. When I removed the head and cylinder, oil poured out of the stud hole, proving this.

I'm not sure HD can fix this permanently until they change the head gasket material. This is just my opinion after trying to get a grip on this. We'll see what they come up with this time around. I'll just keep an eye on mine in the meantime and hope it holds up.

Hoist!

[Ironhorse]

I had the exact same symptom on my bike. No loss of compression, just a lazy oil leak that wet the fins, and left tiny oil drops on the starter cover. I had the mobile mechanic come to the house. It turned out to be a leaky O-ring in the headgasket.

[GC_Super]

At least you 07 guys have the black motors. My 06, silver motor had to have the rear head replaced at 15K, and now I have the oil stains on the rear fins.  Mine first showed up on a trip, so the oil got cooked pretty good before I had a chance to try to clean it.  Anybody know any top secret stuff to clean the silver cases?

[Chief]

Parked at the HOG Rally in Knoxville and looked at a B&O Jester a few bikes away. Leaky head gasket. 2,763 miles.

[sadunbar]

So, I lasted another 500 miles today with a similar amount of leakage from the rear cylinder head gasket.  I still have not lost enough oil to notice it on the dip stick...temps were normal...power was normal...

But, I encountered a new adventure today...while crossing the Mackinac Bridge to meet up with the rest our group (heading to Toronto, then Niagara Falls), my radio went blank (no power), along with my accessory circuit (Garmin Zumo), no turn signals, and the oil temperature gage lost power.  All other gages and the rest of the bike was still powered and the bike was running normal.  So, I made it across the bridge and located the rest of our group (making us 11).  We stopped at the tourist area on the south end of the bridge.  I shut the bike off by turning off the ignition switch at the handle bar, then turned the ignition switch back on, fuel pump fired as normal, then hit the starter button - and had nothing.  So, I turned off the main power switch, turned it back on, and everything powered back up.  The radio turned on, accy switch was working, oil temp gage was working - everything back to normal.  I hit the starter - the bike fired up and has been running normal ever since.  I had previously had no electrical issues with the bike.  Thoughts anyone?  The combination of what was working and what wasn't must mean something...

I hit the magic 5000 mile mark on the bike today - must be like turning 40 years old...   The adventure continues.....

Scott

Anyone have any thoughts on my electrical phenomenon?

Scott