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[Twolanerider]

Scanning a parts catalog earlier caused a question to pop in.  All the SE six speed gear kits include language saying the addition of the appropriate six speed side cover is required.

Why ?

Clutch is the same.  Cable or hydraulic mount is the same.  Distance across the case doesn't change so pushrod is the same.  Nothing changes but the gear set and shift drum.

I can't think of a single reason why changing the side cover would be mandatory.  Just paying extra to advertise the words "6 Speed" on the new side cover?

[Screamin]

More Moco $$$ ? or  looks better ?  or to remind me to up-shift to 6th ?   

 SERG is very plain.

[Dan_Lockwood]

Scanning a parts catalog earlier caused a question to pop in.  All the SE six speed gear kits include language saying the addition of the appropriate six speed side cover is required.

Why ?

Clutch is the same.  Cable or hydraulic mount is the same.  Distance across the case doesn't change so pushrod is the same.  Nothing changes but the gear set and shift drum.

I can't think of a single reason why changing the side cover would be mandatory.  Just paying extra to advertise the words "6 Speed" on the new side cover?

I think we went through this before, but the Cruise Drive 6 speed that comes on the '07 and later Touring and the '06 Dyna and later, is a 1:1 6th gear.  I believe the SE 6 speed to be an overdrive trans for 6th gear.  The manner in which they handle the O/D 6th may necessitate the need for a new side cover.

Other than that, I know nothing...

[GregKhougaz]

Hate to add more of a question than an answer but my 04 RG had a six speed "overdrive" from HD with a six speed cover.  At 70 mph, I tached 2600 rpm... same as the SERG but now they call it "cruise drive."  If it's not identical, it's damn close!!  I'm betting the standard cover fits but it would not be hard to compare........

gk

[Twolanerider]

Hate to add more of a question than an answer but my 04 RG had a six speed "overdrive" from HD with a six speed cover.  At 70 mph, I tached 2600 rpm... same as the SERG but now they call it "cruise drive."  If it's not identical, it's damn close!!  I'm betting the standard cover fits but it would not be hard to compare........

gk

I was wondering about the add-on SE gear set rather than the stock six speed "cruise drive" gear boxes.  They obviously come with a side cover that works.

Like you I'd be comfortable betting the unmarked standard side cover would work too.  Can't think of anything internally different.  So the only thing we're really being told to buy the side cover for is to adverstise the "6 Speed" logo on the side of the cover?

Only other thing I can think, but which I also doubt, is that perhaps the trap door on the six speed gear sets is some small amount different in thickness.  The side cover and clutch pushrod might then be mated to that difference?

Think I can even check that here though.  The side cover kits cover a year model range across the 2000 SERG and 05 SEEG.  One of this is the SE gear set six speed and the other is the stock five speed.  If the trap door thicknesses are the same that's not it.

[Spike]

Scanning a parts catalog earlier caused a question to pop in.  All the SE six speed gear kits include language saying the addition of the appropriate six speed side cover is required.
Why ?

Clutch is the same.  Cable or hydraulic mount is the same.  Distance across the case doesn't change so pushrod is the same.  Nothing changes but the gear set and shift drum.

I can't think of a single reason why changing the side cover would be mandatory.  Just paying extra to advertise the words "6 Speed" on the new side cover?

my guess would be that on my SERK, the cover has a nipple on it for the hydraulic clutch so that may be the disclaimer for anyone with a hydraulic clutch

[Twolanerider]

my guess would be that on my SERK, the cover has a nipple on it for the hydraulic clutch so that may be the disclaimer for anyone with a hydraulic clutch

That doesn't speak to the question though.  All the hydraulic clutch side covers are going to have a bleeder.  Five speed or six speed makes no difference.  If it's a hydraulic clutch; it's got a bleeder.  What I didn't know and found myself wondering about was whether the five and six speed side covers were interchangeable.

Granted, were of course talking interchangeability within either cable operated or hydraulically operated groups.  Despite Harley's fitment matrix to the contrary, however, I just can't think of anything that makes a five speed side cover different from a six speed side cover other than the "6 Speed" logo engraved on the outside to look cooler (and make you spend more).

[REGGAB]

Baker

[Texas 103]

Scanning a parts catalog earlier caused a question to pop in.  All the SE six speed gear kits include language saying the addition of the appropriate six speed side cover is required.

Why ?

Clutch is the same.  Cable or hydraulic mount is the same.  Distance across the case doesn't change so pushrod is the same.  Nothing changes but the gear set and shift drum.

I can't think of a single reason why changing the side cover would be mandatory.  Just paying extra to advertise the words "6 Speed" on the new side cover?

Don,

I have an extra 6 speed cover, if you need it PM me....Greg

[Boatman]

I do not know the answer but always wondered the same about needing a different tranny cover with the 6 speed.  Pay $2,000 for a gear set and then have to pony up $300 for a cover.  Happy you are checking the cover(s) out.  Being trusting as I am, if I were able to do it, I would have went ahead and ordered as the MOCO said I needed it.  Could care less about the 6 speed notation also.  Hope you find out what you need to know.

[Twolanerider]

Baker

Has absolutely nothing to do with the current curiosity.  Just wondering if HD really is lieing through their corporate teeth when they say the six speed side cover is "required."  That's a good chunk of change extra if all they're wanting to do is get the bike owner to display the logo.

Hey, Hogasm?  How we feeling about Baker today ?

[Twolanerider]

I do not know the answer but always wondered the same about needing a different tranny cover with the 6 speed.  Pay $2,000 for a gear set and then have to pony up $300 for a cover.  Happy you are checking the cover(s) out.  Being trusting as I am, if I were able to do it, I would have went ahead and ordered as the MOCO said I needed it.  Could care less about the 6 speed notation also.  Hope you find out what you need to know.

I know  .  Feels like a racket doesn't it !

Hadn't ever occurred to me as a question before a couple nights ago.  Then was sorting through a catalog and saw an aftermarket side cover listed whose fitment was described as "five or six speed."  Then the light bulb shone dimly over my head as I realized I couldn't think of a difference between them. 

Got to give Harley credit for testicular fortitude if they are telling us the extra $$ side cover is required and the only difference really is adding the logo on the outside.

[Screamin]

Just went out and checked out my SERG plain door against a new RK door w/ the 6 speed written on it. Darn if I can tell one bit of difference externally except the writing. Maybe I just got lucky and got a stealth 6 speed.

[Twolanerider]

Just went out and checked out my SERG plain door against a new RK door w/ the 6 speed written on it. Darn if I can tell one bit of difference externally except the writing. Maybe I just got lucky and got a stealth 6 speed.

I've done the same now the the 05 SEEG with its SE gear set and "required" side cover and the 2000 SERG and it's standard side cover.  Even though the gear sets change after 2000 the side cover doesn't.  So the comparison would be on point. 

Thickness of side cover.  Thickness of trap door.  Externally the same.  The six speed trap door does not include a new clutch push rod.  So one has to assume the travel or length isn't changed internally either.  A new clutch cable isn't required so again one has to assume no internal difference for the cable connection.  Sure looks like Harley is hosing us the $$ just to make sure we display their fancy "6 speed" logo .

[Mr. We]

I've done the same now the the 05 SEEG with its SE gear set and "required" side cover and the 2000 SERG and it's standard side cover.  Even though the gear sets change after 2000 the side cover doesn't.  So the comparison would be on point. 

Thickness of side cover.  Thickness of trap door.  Externally the same.  The six speed trap door does not include a new clutch push rod.  So one has to assume the travel or length isn't changed internally either.  A new clutch cable isn't required so again one has to assume no internal difference for the cable connection.  Sure looks like Harley is hosing us the $$ just to make sure we display their fancy "6 speed" logo .

YUP! 

[hogasm]

Has absolutely nothing to do with the current curiosity.  Just wondering if HD really is lieing through their corporate teeth when they say the six speed side cover is "required."  That's a good chunk of change extra if all they're wanting to do is get the bike owner to display the logo.

Hey, Hogasm?  How we feeling about Baker today ?

I might even go as far as to say that this year I have no complaints with Baker......but then again, Bessie only has 3000 miles on her this year. Been in the shop with a bumb motor for most of the year

[Texas 103]

Has absolutely nothing to do with the current curiosity.  Just wondering if HD really is lieing through their corporate teeth when they say the six speed side cover is "required."  That's a good chunk of change extra if all they're wanting to do is get the bike owner to display the logo.

Hey, Hogasm?  How we feeling about Baker today ?

Probally the same way Unbalanced feels about Baker,,,

[porthole]

15 non answers 

Same thing has been in my thoughts too. Wouldn't mind saving the money for the cover when I am finally able to do mine. Don't really care if it says 6 speed or not.

The $300 saved can go towards changing the the comp and clutch sprockets.

[Dan_Lockwood]

Hate to add more of a question than an answer but my 04 RG had a six speed "overdrive" from HD with a six speed cover.  At 70 mph, I tached 2600 rpm... same as the SERG but now they call it "cruise drive." If it's not identical, it's damn close!!  I'm betting the standard cover fits but it would not be hard to compare........

gk

Actually the 6 speed overdrive is just that, an O/D 6 speed.  This is nothing more than the same gear ratios from the 5 speed and then with the .86 O/D 6th gear.  The new "Cruise Drive 6 speed" is NOT an O/D trans, but just a slightly closer ratio gear set with a lower low gear, but a 1:1 final gear.  They then make up the "gearing" or "O/D" simulation by changing to a higher ratio (closer to 1:1) primary sprocket set up.  Although as the "other" thread has said, they missed the mark on just how low low gear should be.  But still the Cruise Drive is not an overdrive 6 speed.

I think I said it in my ealier post, but the SE 6 speed is not the same 6 speed that's in our '07 and newer SE bikes.  Just like the new SE cam plate with bushings is not the same cam plate that they use in our SE 110" motors.

I'm leaning towards some type of clearancing issue inside the cover that is required for the retro 6 speed gear set requiring a new cover.  Externally they appear the same, but internally they MAY be different.

I know that we all have doubts about the MOCO and their reasoning sometimes, but I've looked back through my last two P&A catalogs and with different retro parts kits and if you don't need something they just didn't add it because they wanted to sell it.  As an example, the new SE cam plate.  They don't say you need a new oil pump or new cam set to use it.  If we took the 6 speed scenario to the cam plate, they would say "must have cam set XXXXX-XX and oil pump XXXXX-XX to function properly.  So if they COULD gouge us for "extras", they would there too, just my opinion.  I think I may be a bit naive when it comes to the MOCO as I'm "new" to the family and have no longterm experience to base any negative opinions on.  Even so far on my '08 SERK, I got a great archive book, the bike runs great, handles great and looks cool.

I think someone like HD-Dude could step in and give us a little background on this.

If I were doing a SE 6 speed gear set change and had to have it done for a trip, I don't think I would guess that the stock cover will work.  I may be waiting for a while to pick up the 6 speed cover.

Of course this is ALL just my opinion with some facts thrown in on the two different types of 6 speeds.  I think we need to have someone that's done this verify to the need or no need for a 6 speed cover.

I asked this in the "other" thread, has anyone heard what the new Baker 7 speed gear set is going for?  Just wondering.

Sorry to keep mudding the waters on this...

    

[screaminchickensrule]

I wouldn't order the cover... In MOCO's P&A they state that extra parts are needed with virtually everything that you do to your bike... (if you read the fine print or go to a dealer that has a new parts guy)  Most of the time they are just UP selling all their parts just like they train their STEALERSHIPS to do...  Just my $ .02  Everyone have a great weekend!!! 

[Twolanerider]

15 non answers 

Same thing has been in my thoughts too. Wouldn't mind saving the money for the cover when I am finally able to do mine. Don't really care if it says 6 speed or not.

The $300 saved can go towards changing the the comp and clutch sprockets.

That's ok Duane.  If no one knows no one knows.  After all, I didn't either.  The notion only came to me as I was cruising that parts catalog the other night.

At that time it was only a matter of curiosity.  Soon enough I'll have an opportunity to know for sure though.  And that will be thanks to this thread.

Greg mentioned he had a six speed side cover for cheap.  When he said that I scoped out eBay for gear sets to see if 1 and 1 could be put together to make 6 (speeds).  Significantly lucked out there. 

Someone had recently listed the new -A version of the SE six speed gear set.  I called the shop listing and convinced them they might as well sell it directly since sure no gear set that only fits 10 year old bikes and older would get much attention.  Got the brand new in a sealed box SE gear set for $1k. 

Whenever I get around to changing it I'll closely compare Greg's 6 speed side cover to the stock piece and know for sure whether the change is required or cosmetic.  Will post here when that happens. 

[porthole]

Got the brand new in a sealed box SE gear set for $1k. 

You suck

[Twolanerider]

You suck

Thankyewveramuch  .



I did luck out though.  That gear set fits like 1990-2000.  They'd had it on the shelf for who knows how long.  It was the newer -A part number but even that's at least five years old.  At the end of the chat they were just more interested in selling it now for sure than letting it ride out a week on eBay and maybe or maybe not getting any action. 

The old SERG will actually benefit from an overdrive gear.  It was one of those "going to do it" things.  Just didn't know when.  The availability of Greg's side cover just got the ball rolling sooner rather than later.

[Para Bellum]

What I'm going to say won't be a definitive answer to the question, but....both of my CVOs, an '07 and an '08, have plain side covers; they don't say 6-speed like the non-CVO covers.  Could it be MoCo cheaping-out again (NAH!) in the hope we'll buy another over-priced dress-up item from them (NAH!)?

When I got the sissy bar and pad for my '07 SES, the catalog said "turn signal relocation kit required."  Not only wasn't it required, when I started to install it, I could see the relocation kit wasn't going to have any effect on the interference by the turn signals, so I returned the kit to my stealer and worked around the turn signals.

So: is MoCo hosing us with that "requirement" to buy extra pieces?  NAH!

[REGGAB]

Has absolutely nothing to do with the current curiosity.  Just wondering if HD really is lieing through their corporate teeth when they say the six speed side cover is "required."  That's a good chunk of change extra if all they're wanting to do is get the bike owner to display the logo.

Hey, Hogasm?  How we feeling about Baker today ?

Apologies for the input.  Enjoy your stock side cover.   

Will do my best to remember that you never recommend solutions, which may stray slightly from the original query, let alone go way off topic.   

[Twolanerider]

Apologies for the input.  Enjoy your stock side cover.   

Will do my best to remember that you never recommend solutions, which may stray slightly from the original query, let alone go way off topic.   

Henry, you've got to stop mistaking commentary for criticism and responding as if insecurities always have you watching over your shoulder for boogeymen.  This is a playground man; nothing more.  I may not find another post where I can throw in an intentional math error to get you feeling good enough to be chatty again.  So worry less and play more .

[Twolanerider]

What I'm going to say won't be a definitive answer to the question, but....both of my CVOs, an '07 and an '08, have plain side covers; they don't say 6-speed like the non-CVO covers.  Could it be MoCo cheaping-out again (NAH!) in the hope we'll buy another over-priced dress-up item from them (NAH!)?

When I got the sissy bar and pad for my '07 SES, the catalog said "turn signal relocation kit required."  Not only wasn't it required, when I started to install it, I could see the relocation kit wasn't going to have any effect on the interference by the turn signals, so I returned the kit to my stealer and worked around the turn signals.

So: is MoCo hosing us with that "requirement" to buy extra pieces?  NAH!

Completely agree that the MoCo's "directions" so often leave a lot to be desired about such things.  Have too often been told needed something that could have been avoided.  Even more annoying are the packages or kits that are complete; but aren't.  Requiring you then to make an extra trip to the parts counter for some gasket, hardware or other part that should have been part of the package but was not.

The bikes with stock six speeds are a different beast to this question though.  It's an entirely different transmission than those earlier models that get the gear set added and are told "you need to buy that side cover little boy or we'll spank you with Harley shift linkages!"

Oh well....  It was all just a matter of Harley Miscreant Curiosity until Greg told me about his side cover for cheap $$$.  This may be the first thread where instead of someone else's it was my own thread that unexpectedly cost me money . 

[REGGAB]

Henry, you've got to stop mistaking commentary for criticism and responding as if insecurities always have you watching over your shoulder for boogeymen. 

Don, you would do well to practice that which you preach.  Nothing more than complete sarcasm in my response intended only to crack a smile and let you know that Baker might have a cover solution to fit your need.

Personally, I like the stock side cover.   

This is a playground man; nothing more.

Well, for those of us looking for knowledge, perhaps sharing knowledge we've gained along the way, and hoping to help others, it is not just a playground.........though it can be.

I may not find another post where I can throw in an intentional math error to get you feeling good enough to be chatty again.

I find it disingenuously convenient when one says an error was intentional after the fact.  Much easier, let alone......honest......to man up like you did the first time.  Don't worry yourself too much about me being "chatty," pal!  When I'm quiet here, I'm likely busy working.

So worry less and play more .

I worry very little about anything happening here.  I have plenty of other matters to peg my worry meter, so in that context, "worry" is not germane.  "Play".......well........every chance I get.   

You might want to be careful next time you sit down.  Might injure yourself with that stick in your fourth point of contact.   

[Twolanerider]

Don, you would do well to practice that which you preach.  Nothing more than complete sarcasm in my response intended only to crack a smile and let you know that Baker might have a cover solution to fit your need.

Personally, I like the stock side cover.   

Well, for those of us looking for knowledge, perhaps sharing knowledge we've gained along the way, and hoping to help others, it is not just a playground.........though it can be.

I find it disingenuously convenient when one says an error was intentional after the fact.  Much easier, let alone......honest......to man up like you did the first time.  Don't worry yourself too much about me being "chatty," pal!  When I'm quiet here, I'm likely busy working.

I worry very little about anything happening here.  I have plenty of other matters to peg my worry meter, so in that context, "worry" is not germane.  "Play".......well........every chance I get.   

You might want to be careful next time you sit down.  Might injure yourself with that stick in your fourth point of contact.   

Henry, you've got to stop mistaking commentary for criticism and responding as if insecurities always have you watching over your shoulder for boogeymen. 

[Twolanerider]

Just remembered that I'd finally answered this question a week or so ago.  Original question was whether the installation of the Harley six speed gear set required use of the Harley six speed side cover as the P&A catalog said it would.

Turns out the answer is yes.  The six speed side cover would work on either a five speed or a six speed transmission (remember, we're not talking the newer "Cruise Drive" transmissions here).  But the original five speed side cover will not go on a new six speed trap door.

Difference isn't trap door thickness nor anything to do with the clutch release nor anything else in any mechanical system.  It's just a difference in the casting.

In the photo the top part is a six speed side cover.  Bottom one is the old five speed cover.  Notice the vertical indention in the casting of the five speed cover coming down from the top center.  That entire area is open on the six speed cover.  That's the difference.

[Twolanerider]

See here on a six speed trap door the area on the trap door that indention would be obstructed by.  That pipe plug top center is the retainer for the shift arm shaft.  On a five speed that shaft doesn't come through the trap door.  It stops at the case and is held in place by the trap door.

Aftermarket side covers that adverstise themselves as working both ways must be cast like the six speed cover.  It would work either way.

[golaith69]

hello  all ; i was told that 1 of the side covers  is a little deeper to make up for the difference in the thickness of the gears .......  i never checked but it mite be worth checking....  thanks , jeff

[Twolanerider]

hello  all ; i was told that 1 of the side covers  is a little deeper to make up for the difference in the thickness of the gears .......  i never checked but it mite be worth checking....  thanks , jeff

No other interference I found except that center part of the casting.  Neither cover hit the bearings on either gear set.  Even if you had to set them on a little cockeyed to clear that center indentation.

[Godeater]

In case anyone is looking.  I just bought a Baker OD6 complete Dyna trans in black off Dennis Kirks clearence site for $824 bucks plus $10 for shipping.  Going to strip out the gear set and transplant into my SERG.  But a Baker 6 speed for $824 bucks is a steal.  Don't know if they have anymore but worth watching.

[Twolanerider]

In case anyone is looking.  I just bought a Baker OD6 complete Dyna trans in black off Dennis Kirks clearence site for $824 bucks plus $10 for shipping.  Going to strip out the gear set and transplant into my SERG.  But a Baker 6 speed for $824 bucks is a steal.  Don't know if they have anymore but worth watching.

That is an amazing bargain.  The six speed gear set I put in the SERG was an eBay score a couple months ago for $890.  That was a dandy bargain.  But you're Baker price was even better.  Congrats on the great score.  All they do is buy stock cases for this complete units so there's nothing special about the exchange.

Have no idea if this would the same on the Baker.  But pay close attention to the shifter.  Changing from stock five speed gear set to the SE six speed gear set on my 2000 required changing the shift shaft sleeve in the case also.  Longer sleeve and longer alignment screw for the six speed parts.  Not something one would have readily noticed if only changing gear sets from one case to another without a cheat sheet for help.  Don't know what they might be on the Baker exchange.  But compare everything.  Little subtle differences like that might bite a guy in the ass.

[Cvostu]

i put the baker dd6 in and used the stock cover and it works perfectly.  just another raquet for the motor company i'm sure.   hey,,    they need the $$$    right??

[Twolanerider]

i put the baker dd6 in and used the stock cover and it works perfectly.  just another raquet for the motor company i'm sure.   hey,,    they need the $$$    right??

Not surprised they played together.  The combination that won't work is the five speed's trap door and the six speed's side cover.  Other trap doors change the mix.

[sportygordy]

emmmm.. now lets think this one out... finish my AR-10 or buy a Baker OD6 for the 04 Pumpkin? 

[Twolanerider]

emmmm.. now lets think this one out... finish my AR-10 or buy a Baker OD6 for the 04 Pumpkin? 

May not have to worry about the decision SG.  Waded through the Dennis Kirk website last night and found no more super-priced Baker gear sets.  Darn....

[REGGAB]

emmmm.. now lets think this one out... finish my AR-10 or buy a Baker OD6 for the 04 Pumpkin? 

May not have to worry about the decision SG.  Waded through the Dennis Kirk website last night and found no more super-priced Baker gear sets.  Darn....

SG,
If you're serious about an OD6, contact Rod's Performance http://rodsperformance.com or Bob Wood http://www.woodcarbs.com/.  Both have "Builder's Kit's" on the shelf.  Thanks.

[Twolanerider]

SG,
If you're serious about an OD6, contact Rod's Performance http://rodsperformance.com or Bob Wood http://www.woodcarbs.com/.  Both have "Builder's Kit's" on the shelf.  Thanks.

Though likely not at the $824 price we were all going to get stocking stuffings for that Godeater mentioned from Dennis Kirk .

[REGGAB]

Though likely not at the $824 price we were all going to get stocking stuffings for that Godeater mentioned from Dennis Kirk .

That is true.  Plan on ~$2100.00 plus shipping. 

[sportygordy]

Though likely not at the $824 price we were all going to get stocking stuffings for that Godeater mentioned from Dennis Kirk .

O.K,.. finish my AR-10.... Darn....

[RedDevil]

O.K,.. finish my AR-10.... Darn....

You turning that into a six-speed? 

   

[REGGAB]

You turning that into a six-speed? 

   

hehehehe........that would be cool!   

[skreminegul07]

I never quite understood why our 07 and later CVO Screamin Eagle bikes do not come with the Screamin Eagle 6 speed.   

[REGGAB]

I never quite understood why our 07 and later CVO Screamin Eagle bikes do not come with the Screamin Eagle 6 speed.   

Oh.....oh........I think I know.   

Totally agree with you, man, but then they'd jack up the price another $6K.  Much easier to get us in the store to buy the bike as is, then suck another few grand out of us for the transmission and labor.

Personally, I think all TC bikes need a six speed.  My stock 02 FLHR is screamin' for a sixth gear.   

[hogasm]

One of the largest waste of moneys in our bikes is the addition of a 6 speed, even with a slightly modified motor.

The motor/cam configuration is designed to work with a 5 speed.

After you add the 6 speed just save some time on the damage you are doing to your motor at RPM's lower than 2800....and beat the hell out of your crank with a 10 pound sledge hammer....you will achieve the same thing in shorter time.

[REGGAB]

One of the largest waste of moneys in our bikes is the addition of a 6 speed, even with a slightly modified motor.

The motor/cam configuration is designed to work with a 5 speed.

After you add the 6 speed just save some time on the damage you are doing to your motor at RPM's lower than 2800....and beat the hell out of your crank with a 10 pound sledge hammer....you will achieve the same thing in shorter time.

Interesting and very well respected and noted observation, Brian.  So, would the same hold true if changing to a lower primary gear with the six speed and using the 6th gear only on highways at speeds greater than or equal to 70 mph?

[Twolanerider]

One of the largest waste of moneys in our bikes is the addition of a 6 speed, even with a slightly modified motor.

The motor/cam configuration is designed to work with a 5 speed.

After you add the 6 speed just save some time on the damage you are doing to your motor at RPM's lower than 2800....and beat the hell out of your crank with a 10 pound sledge hammer....you will achieve the same thing in shorter time.

Brian, on the SERG the gearing is such that it'll actually be worthwhile.  Cruising along the highway at 75 it's just over 3200.  The cams seem to begin catching their breath and start pulling best at about 3k.  Though that'll change when I get over this crud long enough to get the cams changed and do away with the tensioners.  In any case the six speed on this bike will drop the cruise RPM down to around 2700-2800.  With the new cams coming in a bit earlier today I think it'll be a satisfactory cruising combination.  I'd still not have done without a really cheap eBay score for the gearset awhile back.  But the combination should behave ok.

[sadunbar]

Brian, on the SERG the gearing is such that it'll actually be worthwhile.  Cruising along the highway at 75 it's just over 3200.  The cams seem to begin catching their breath and start pulling best at about 3k.  Though that'll change when I get over this crud long enough to get the cams changed and do away with the tensioners.  In any case the six speed on this bike will drop the cruise RPM down to around 2700-2800.  With the new cams coming in a bit earlier today I think it'll be a satisfactory cruising combination.  I'd still not have done without a really cheap eBay score for the gearset awhile back.  But the combination should behave ok.

Still feeling poorly, Don?   

[Twolanerider]

Still feeling poorly, Don?   

Can't shake it.  Flu for a week with emissions everywhere.  That became what I assumed to be bronchitis.  Coughed so much the ribs want to go out on strike.  Then was told yesterday afternoon it's pneumonia.  Not "bad" pneumonia so I'm told.  But still...  I think pneumonia is a lot like surgery in that only minor case is that which is being done by someone else.

[sadunbar]

Can't shake it.  Flu for a week with emissions everywhere.  That became what I assumed to be bronchitis.  Coughed so much the ribs want to go out on strike.  Then was told yesterday afternoon it's pneumonia.  Not "bad" pneumonia so I'm told.  But still...  I think pneumonia is a lot like surgery in that only minor case is that which is being done by someone else.

Sorry to hear that...  I'll assume you are getting proper medical attention...  Take care of yourself.    Old guys like you don't bounce back so fast...

[Dan_Lockwood]

I never quite understood why our 07 and later CVO Screamin Eagle bikes do not come with the Screamin Eagle 6 speed.   

After reading you comments it made me think a little bit about the 5 speed / 6 speed transmissions. 

Yes, to some on here, I do think once in awhile...    

If you look back at the SE 6 speed, I believe it was designed to replace a 5 speed gearset in a five speed housing.  The SE 6 speed is an O/D trans with 6 speed being about .86, that's from memory and mine isn't too good lately.  So the engineers designed around what they had and added the O/D 6th gear.  As Baker has pointed out, an O/D trans robs a bit more power than a high gear at a 1:1 ratio.  That's why had came out with the DD6.  I think he may have an O/D set as well, but not sure.

So if I were the MOCO, I would look at a total redesign 6 speed, which they did in the '06 Dyna series bikes.  In that case they drop the O/D high gear and make high gear 1:1 for the most efficient running.  Now they need to get the O/D effect, so they shortened up the primary ratio from the older 88TC 1.44 ratio to the new 96TC 1.35 ratio.  That's an 8% lowering in ratios.  This is where they get the O/D affect of the 1:1 ratio 6th gear on the Cruise Drive 6 speed trans.

Sorry I got side tracked on the original statement.

The 88TC 5th gear is, 3227 rpms @ 75 mph and 96TC 6th gear is, 2859 rpms @ 75 mph.

I didn't mean this as an answer to your statement as it was just that, a statement.  But it does make sense the way that they did the process of going from an "aftermarket" approach to the SE 6 speed gears and then with the re-engineered 1:1 6 speed Cruise Drive transmission.

    

[LarryB]

Nowhere on the 09 CVO have I seen the phrase Cruise drive. I see it on non CVO's but as for the CVO's they just say 6speed. and compared to the performance on my friends 08 seuc, the 09 serg and presumably the 09 seuc, pulls away much better in 6th uphill, in the dark, with my eyes closed, shoelaces untied, and sand in my shorts. anywho, i think there is more to this.

[SBB]

Nowhere on the 09 CVO have I seen the phrase Cruise drive. I see it on non CVO's but as for the CVO's they just say 6speed. and compared to the performance on my friends 08 seuc, the 09 serg and presumably the 09 seuc, pulls away much better in 6th uphill, in the dark, with my eyes closed, shoelaces untied, and sand in my shorts. anywho, i think there is more to this.

Either the 09 is geared lower (higher numerically) or the sand in your shorts is grinding on your gears!
My money says it's geared lower, and so do the brochures.

 

[REGGAB]

Either the 09 is geared lower (higher numerically) or the sand in your shorts is grinding on your gears!
My money says it's geared lower, and so do the brochures.

 

I like the way your money talks, Chip.

Thumper will be geared lower upon her resurrection.
Can you see about your money replacing my money since a good chunk of my money has been turned into parts and a metric chitload of labor?

[grc]

Nowhere on the 09 CVO have I seen the phrase Cruise drive. I see it on non CVO's but as for the CVO's they just say 6speed. and compared to the performance on my friends 08 seuc, the 09 serg and presumably the 09 seuc, pulls away much better in 6th uphill, in the dark, with my eyes closed, shoelaces untied, and sand in my shorts. anywho, i think there is more to this.

Trust me, as much as I like a good conspiracy theory there is absolutely no difference between the 6 speed in your CVO and the one in that TC96, they are all Cruise Drives with the exact same internal ratios.  The difference you can feel with the '09 versus the '07 and '08 is due to a two tooth change in the rear wheel sprocket, and possibly to a difference in the circumference of the rear wheel (still not sure since I still haven't found any specs for diameter/circumference of the new 18" tire).

Jerry

[porthole]

Brian doesn't like 6 speeds 

[porthole]

It's just a difference in the casting.

You've never been one afraid to experiment - thought about getting out the die grinder? You have to use it anyway for the case, whats a little more grinding?

[Twolanerider]

You've never been one afraid to experiment - thought about getting out the die grinder? You have to use it anyway for the case, whats a little more grinding?

Duane, in different circumstances I would have.  If for no other reason than just to see how much hassle was involved in making it work.  But Greg had fixed me up with a six speed side cover for cheap.  It had been an eBay score of his.  Then I saw the gear set I ended up buying for less than $900 on eBay.  In the end I had the whole kit for about 50% of the just the gear set cost.  At that point it was hardly worth it to go cutting up otherwise good parts just to save a little bit.  If memory serves I also was just in the wrong mood to mess with it that night...

[Twolanerider]

Sorry to hear that...  I'll assume you are getting proper medical attention...  Take care of yourself.    Old guys like you don't bounce back so fast...

Working on it.  The stupid quack doctor wanted me in hospital for a couple of days.  I'm sure it was just a medical test to see if I had enough stamina to stand up and raise my voice a little.  After that was proved he sent me home with some Rx and said not to chase cars or howl at the moon without a coat on for a week or so.

[Twolanerider]

Brian doesn't loek 6 speeds 

No, he does not.  Brian doesn't like anything you can't fix with duct tape or clean with oven cleaner .







(sorry Brian, Merry Christmas )

[porthole]

Brian doesn't loek 6 speeds 

No, he does not.  Brian doesn't like anything you can't fix with duct tape or clean with oven cleaner .


(sorry Brian, Merry Christmas )

Boy that one wasn't even close

[porthole]

In the end I had the whole kit for about 50% of the just the gear set cost. 

You still suck 

[Twolanerider]

You still suck 

Stop that.  My chest hurts when you make me laugh .

[REGGAB]

Trust me, as much as I like a good conspiracy theory there is absolutely no difference between the 6 speed in your CVO and the one in that TC96, they are all Cruise Drives with the exact same internal ratios.  The difference you can feel with the '09 versus the '07 and '08 is due to a two tooth change in the rear wheel sprocket, and possibly to a difference in the circumference of the rear wheel (still not sure since I still haven't found any specs for diameter/circumference of the new 18" tire).

Jerry

Great info there, Jerry.  So.......do you think it is better to change the drive gearing (either primary or secondary........or both) when converting an older bike to a six speed transmission?
I'm just asking because I'm hearing that elsewhere besides here.  That sixth gear will kill a motor at low rpm.

[GC_Super]

Great info there, Jerry.  So.......do you think it is better to change the drive gearing (either primary or secondary........or both) when converting an older bike to a six speed transmission?
I'm just asking because I'm hearing that elsewhere besides here.  That sixth gear will kill a motor at low rpm.

Before my 06 left the dealer, I changed the gearing to 3.37 and added a SE 6 speed. To me, it's the perfect set up. Some think it's a waste of money to lower the gearing, then add a 6 spd to raise it back up. I wanted a little more umph from the 103 without any mods and this set up has been perfect for me. Even if I wanted to make engine upgrades, the 3.37 and 6 spd make for a nice cruising combo, especially in the wide open spaces of Texas. 

[porthole]

Stop that.  My chest hurts when you make me laugh .

Double  - forgot about the big P. Been there - done that and know how you feel hurt.

Hope your at least on the downside.

Send me a PM it there are any coins.

[porthole]

I changed the gearing to 3.37 and added a SE 6 speed.

My goal if and when I recover from recent events 

[Twolanerider]

Double  - forgot about the big P. Been there - done that and know how you feel hurt.

Hope your at least on the downside.

Send me a PM it there are any coins.

Read an email from Sean this AM.  The coins should be here this week.  Soon as I have them in hand will post up all the new handling info and let you know.

[REGGAB]

Before my 06 left the dealer, I changed the gearing to 3.37 and added a SE 6 speed. To me, it's the perfect set up. Some think it's a waste of money to lower the gearing, then add a 6 spd to raise it back up. I wanted a little more umph from the 103 without any mods and this set up has been perfect for me. Even if I wanted to make engine upgrades, the 3.37 and 6 spd make for a nice cruising combo, especially in the wide open spaces of Texas. 

Exactly what is being done to my machine.

[hogasm]

Interesting and very well respected and noted observation, Brian.  So, would the same hold true if changing to a lower primary gear with the six speed and using the 6th gear only on highways at speeds greater than or equal to 70 mph?

Sorry Henry...forgot all about this thread....

changing to a 3.36  is what you need to do IMHO when changing to a 6 speed. It helps in someone not shifting into 6th gear at too low of RPM's which kills these motors.

Now we are back to how much money are we going to spend and how many times are you REALLY going to benefit for the changes you have made. Nice Hyabusa about now

My 02 has that set up in it....3.36 and 6 speed.....I can speak from a little experience that with the motor combination!!!!! and gearing.....it is a nice combination......was it worth it.....Not really.....could have spent that 3K on something for the boat or a Bushtec trailer

[hogasm]

No, he does not.  Brian doesn't like anything you can't fix with duct tape or clean with oven cleaner .







(sorry Brian, Merry Christmas )

Don you can't hurt my feelings......just make sure that the Oven Cleaner isn't close to your bike

and don't forget the zip ties

[hogasm]

Brian doesn't like 6 speeds 

It is not that I don't like 6 speeds....the majority of people do harm to their motors by shifting into 6th gear at too low of a RPM.

So now that we NEED that 6 speed gear box we have to change the gearing to 3.36 to make the drivetrain a workable combination.

So what are we trying to accomplish.....better fuel mileage...you get on average 3 mpg better mileage by changing to a 6 speed, how many miles does one have to ride to have the change pay for itself....

longer motor life.....which most of us will change bikes before we wear out the motor.....

so IMHO leave well enough alone and ride your scoot till  you get a new one

[Twolanerider]

so IMHO leave well enough alone and ride your scoot

Oh Elizabeth.... it's gonna be a big one...   take me now 


Chit...   Leave these things alone?  Oh gawd, I think I just popped a rib .

[MIKEYTEE]

It is not that I don't like 6 speeds....the majority of people do harm to their motors by shifting into 6th gear at too low of a RPM.

So now that we NEED that 6 speed gear box we have to change the gearing to 3.36 to make the drivetrain a workable combination.

So what are we trying to accomplish.....better fuel mileage...you get on average 3 mpg better mileage by changing to a 6 speed, how many miles does one have to ride to have the change pay for itself....

longer motor life.....which most of us will change bikes before we wear out the motor.....

so IMHO leave well enough alone and ride your scoot till  you get a new one

[/color]

Brian is not in the us catagory.

Brian didn't really follow his own advice!
Brian learned the hard way.
Mike
 

[Twolanerider]

[/color]

Brian is not in the us catagory.

Brian didn't really follow his own advice!
Brian learned the hard way.
Mike
 

Crap Mike, Brian not only didn't outlast the motor.  He didn't even outlast the powder coat!






(sorry Brian, love ya man, at least no one said anything about duct tape)

[MIKEYTEE]

Major spew!!!
Got to clean up the Bourbon! Alcohol abuse.
Mike
 

[Twolanerider]

aw crap, this thread got me laughing 'til my eyes leaked....


Merry Christmas Brian and Kathy!

[porthole]

It is not that I don't like 6 speeds....the majority of people do harm to their motors by shifting into 6th gear at too low of a RPM.

So now that we NEED that 6 speed gear box we have to change the gearing to 3.36 to make the drivetrain a workable combination.

So what are we trying to accomplish.....better fuel mileage...you get on average 3 mpg better mileage by changing to a 6 speed, how many miles does one have to ride to have the change pay for itself....

longer motor life.....which most of us will change bikes before we wear out the motor.....

so IMHO leave well enough alone and ride your scoot till  you get a new one

Brian - Brian - Brian, I think you are missing what some of us are looking for.

As you know, I am looking to lower the overall gearing on my bike, I feel as though it is geared too high, even for my light butt. And add a passenger and I think it just isn't enough "git up 'n' go". And I think a little lower gearing will make it just about perfect riding through the hills.

So lower the overall ratio and overcome the increased RPMS with the addition of #6.

Increase the R's 400 with the gearing, drop it back down with the 6'r.

As for better fuel mileage - that's like trying to justify the diesel in my truck but getting 2-3 miles a gallon more - and that is an almost $8K option.

[porthole]

Oh gawd, I think I just popped a rib .

Does it still hurt?

[porthole]

(sorry Brian, love ya man, at least no one said anything about duct tape)

Ah, didn't you mention it before?

[hogasm]

Oh Elizabeth.... it's gonna be a big one...   take me now 


Chit...   Leave these things alone?  Oh gawd, I think I just popped a rib .

Only one rib

Still cheaper than modifying one of these things.....remember all they do for a rib is to ducttape it up

[hogasm]

[/color]

Brian is not in the us catagory.

Brian didn't really follow his own advice!
Brian learned the hard way.
Mike
 

Thought you were family

[hogasm]

aw crap, this thread got me laughing 'til my eyes leaked....


Merry Christmas Brian and Kathy!

Like a 110

[Twolanerider]

Like a 110

That's just cruel (to all the guys that had them )!

[hogasm]

Brian - Brian - Brian, I think you are missing what some of us are looking for.

As you know, I am looking to lower the overall gearing on my bike, I feel as though it is geared too high, even for my light butt. And add a passenger and I think it just isn't enough "git up 'n' go". And I think a little lower gearing will make it just about perfect riding through the hills.

So lower the overall ratio and overcome the increased RPMS with the addition of #6.

Increase the R's 400 with the gearing, drop it back down with the 6'r.

As for better fuel mileage - that's like trying to justify the diesel in my truck but getting 2-3 miles a gallon more - and that is an almost $8K option.

I know Duane....but when you have that diesel in the truck and it is hooked up to a 13,500lb boat.....it sure feels nice to pull out and pass that other vehicle that is holding you up......damn is this double standard....bikes...boats...diesel trucks.....oh hell spend your money....you worked hard for it.....the Govt is making plenty of it nowadays

[hogasm]

That's just cruel (to all the guys that had them )!

 

[SBB]

That's just cruel (to all the guys that had them )!

Whats this 'had" stuff?

 

[Twolanerider]

Whats this 'had" stuff?

 

Ok, my bad.  Fortunately for some that's a had we never had though....

So we either never had and were ok.  Or some had the newer and they're ok.  But some had in between.  And they were just had.

[SBB]

Ok, my bad.  Fortunately for some that's a had we never had though....

So we either never had and were ok.  Or some had the newer and they're ok.  But some had in between.  And they were just had.

Damn

Why did I ask?

 

[porthole]

longer motor life.....which most of us will change bikes before we wear out the motor.....

so IMHO leave well enough alone and ride your scoot till  you get a new one

So who are you and what did you do with our Brian 

[hogasm]

Damn

Why did I ask?

 

You mean you understood what I think Don said

[SBB]

You mean you understood what I think Don said

NOPE!

[porthole]

it sure feels nice to pull out and pass that other vehicle that is holding you up......

Ain't nuttin like 650 foot pounds of torque to get you moving

[Twolanerider]

Damn

Why did I ask?

 

Sure as hell don't ask me.  I don't know what it meant either!

[MIKEYTEE]

Thought you were family

Yep, I are!
Truth is still truth.
 

[1abastarsmda]

I didn't read every post in this thread, so it may have been mentioned, but my 09 does not say 6 speed or anything else on the cover.  My 07 RK said 6 speed on it.

[LarryB]

Dave do you sleep none of the 09 CVO say 6 speed

[1abastarsmda]

Occasionally, I get a chance to sleep. 

[grc]

I didn't read every post in this thread, so it may have been mentioned, but my 09 does not say 6 speed or anything else on the cover.  My 07 RK said 6 speed on it.

Cost reduction.  Writin' on the parts costs money, further compounded by the cost to translate the blueprints into Chinese first.  Easier just to eliminate the writin'.  I suggest everyone just keep shiftin' until the lever won't move anymore, and that will tell you your in top (however many it is) gear.  Then carefully count each gear as you shift down for a stop to determine the total number of ratio's available.  Procure a Sharpie indelible marker in the color of your choice and carefully mark the trans side cover with the number of ratio's available in case a question ever comes up in the future about how many gears you have.  This will add a truly custom touch to your "factory custom" bike.

Jerry 

[1abastarsmda]

It's too hard to see that cover when I'm riding anyway, so I tape a note to the back of my glove to remind me how many gears I have.  But when it rains, the number runs and then I get all confused again and have to get the manual out...how many gears do I have again?  Seriously, I think after having a 6 speed, it's difficult to go back to a 5 speed.  You keep kicking for that next gear, and then the light bulb goes off...oh yeah, no 6th gear.