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[bearingman]

I just installed my super tuner on the serg, and I wondered if anyone has gotten good low end throttle response tuned in.  When I blip the throttle at idle, there is very little response.  I have played with the spark advance numbers but have had limited success getting good response.  I would appreciate any info. on spark advance numbers at 20 - 40 MPa and 750 to 1500 rpm.  Thanks in advance.

[moscooter]

 
To me,  you need to be more specific with your interpretation of "throttle response" at low rpms......

Some have had or are having problems with "lag" and the (fly by wire) throttle mechanism.  This could be someones view of poor throttle response.  The gearing in the newer models is not as low as in the past.  As a result,  low speed and rpms are not as responsive......Cam choice plays a part in where you will really get good response,  rpm range-wise.

Is your set-up "stock" and you are trying to max out your torque numbers on the low-end.........Mine doesn't come on good till around 2500 rpms or so........but I went to a T-Man 625 cam and other stuff.

I'm not trying to confuse the question you are asking,  just thinking you will get better answers if you relate a little more about what you are after.

[bearingman]

I am simply blipping the throttle in neutral from idle.  The response from the motor is not much.  I am running with a non cat header and 1-3/4 fullsac baffles.
I have the AFR pretty close to where I want it, but low end does not seem responsive.  If I try to pull out quickly in first gear the motor shudders.
I have to give it extra revs and feather the clutch to avoid this.  I realise 1st gear is too tall, but I thought that the problem could be partially corrected by getting the spark timing optimized.  Was hoping to find out what spark advance others had in the range mentioned above.
Thanks

[ZOOMballs]

I'm not sure about the "super tuner". I had mine dyno'd after the "pro tuner" was installed with heavy breather & slip-ons. It made 99/120 at the rear wheel.

[jfh]

I am simply blipping the throttle in neutral from idle.  The response from the motor is not much.  I am running with a non cat header and 1-3/4 fullsac baffles.
I have the AFR pretty close to where I want it, but low end does not seem responsive.  If I try to pull out quickly in first gear the motor shudders.
I have to give it extra revs and feather the clutch to avoid this.  I realise 1st gear is too tall, but I thought that the problem could be partially corrected by getting the spark timing optimized.  Was hoping to find out what spark advance others had in the range mentioned above.
Thanks

Sounds like it could possibly be attributed to throttle progressivity settings.  You can adjust them in the SSERT to improve responsiveness.

[bearingman]

hdfr120, you may be on to something there. I set the progressivity to max levels thinking it would act 'true', but that may have been a mistake.
Thanks

[moscooter]

 
Let me add just one more point......given your latest response.  Hopefully,  you are allowing 15-20 minutes (minimum) of warm-up time before you are measuring results.

My old M&M (2001) RK Classic.........could take off immediately after start-up and go without any hiccups or staggering, etc.  My new 2009 Ultra SE 110 is extremely COLD BLOODED............trying to get any reasonable "responsiveness" via the throttle........until 15-20 minutes go by............is a waste of time.

[moscooter]

 

Here are my results........

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=36505.45

[sblair]

Mine does the same thing and it sounds like I have the exact same setup.  Its also been Dyno'd.  The electronic throttle has that little dead spot right at the beginning.  I usually blip it slightly just before I start letting out the clutch but often get that little shuuder on takeoff.  After that she is very responsive especially 3500-5500 rpm!

[Steve Cole]

The SESPT has a little know problem in it. The throttle table adjustment doesn't work in all gears, netural being one of them. So setting it to the stock values or maxing it out isn't going to change the issue. Your going to have to live with it or get a Mastertune to fix it.

[9 1/2 Beers]

Mine does the same thing and it sounds like I have the exact same setup.  Its also been Dyno'd.  The electronic throttle has that little dead spot right at the beginning.  I usually blip it slightly just before I start letting out the clutch but often get that little shuuder on takeoff.  After that she is very responsive especially 3500-5500 rpm!

 I have the same problem, so at low speed like cyn's. , turning at stop lights and signals makes it a little difficult.

Marty

[eddfive]

It is all about the tune especially at the low throttle or no throttle on the FBW's.  I spent a lot of time figuring this out way back in the old SERT and 200 application, I could get them to respond almost and I emphasize almost like a cable bike.  I have tuned a lot of FBW's now with the SEST and there is no problem with Throttle lag just off idle, ask some of the guys I have tuned from this forum.  If a cable bike is not tuned correctly just off idle it will "blubber" as well.  The devil is in the details!!!

[DICKW]

It is all about the tune especially at the low throttle or no throttle on the FBW's.  I spent a lot of time figuring this out way back in the old SERT and 200 application, I could get them to respond almost and I emphasize almost like a cable bike.  I have tuned a lot of FBW's now with the SEST and there is no problem with Throttle lag just off idle, ask some of the guys I have tuned from this forum.  If a cable bike is not tuned correctly just off idle it will "blubber" as well.  The devil is in the details!!!

So what is the trick ?

There was no explanation in your explanation.

What are you doing during the tune that others are not doing?

[eddfive]

No trick, have to pay close attention to data and tune this area correctly.

[DICKW]

No trick, have to pay close attention to data and tune this area correctly.

OK all set now thanks

[Steve Cole]

There is no trick to tuning the DBW bikes. The simple truth is there are things you can do and things you cannot do, and no tuner can change that. They may do a better or worse job at a tune but they are stuck with what the tools will allow them to do. The SESPT throttle adjustment does not work in all gears as I stated, that is a simple fact. There is nothing that a tuner can do about it. Some people complain/notice it more than others and that is the one and only difference.

[CR]

PCV has the accel-pump feature that richens the AFR for a pre-defined number of revs at a pre-defined delta of throttle opening. Adding the autotune you can also forget about dyno-testing (admittedly depending on how much you have changed the bike). Probably more than 75% of tuning issues can be resolved with this set-up for less than USD 700, plus it is so simple almost anyone will be able to install and tune it.

[LarryB]

oh no, not the PC V again.

[Herko]

PCV has the accel-pump feature that richens the AFR for a pre-defined number of revs at a pre-defined delta of throttle opening. Adding the autotune you can also forget about dyno-testing (admittedly depending on how much you have changed the bike). Probably more than 75% of tuning issues can be resolved with this set-up for less than USD 700, plus it is so simple almost anyone will be able to install and tune it.

First hand experience?
How's your bike running with the PC-V?

[CR]

Runs fine. At first it was not very good despite the dyno-hours, it ran very well and smoothly but did not show the performance on the road that it showed on the dyno sheets (+15hp). Adding the wide band sensors (autotune) helped very much on the performance side (I can keep up with my brothers V-Rod muscle, much to his surprise).I rode a Direct Link tuned 2007 CVO (done by a competent tuner) and it did not feel much better than my 2008 with the autotune-kit. It must be noted however that the changes on the engine are limited to an SEAC and exhaust valve bypass, and that extreme changes in the exhaust may render the wide band sensors useless. The module adjusts the fueling real time to attain the pre-defined AFR's at all throttle openings and rpm's in different gears as does Thundermax Autotune or other tuners that work with wideband sensors. The engine runs in closed loop in the whole rpm-range. PCV Autotune is not  complicated and easy to install and adjust. It just my guess but I think this simplicity and effectiveness is partly cause of the disdain shown around these forums by people with vested interests in the tuning business.

[HOGMIKE]

Runs fine. At first it was not very good despite the dyno-hours, it ran very well and smoothly but did not show the performance on the road that it showed on the dyno sheets (+15hp). Adding the wide band sensors (autotune) helped very much on the performance side (I can keep up with my brothers V-Rod muscle, much to his surprise).I rode a Direct Link tuned 2007 CVO (done by a competent tuner) and it did not feel much better than my 2008 with the autotune-kit. It must be noted however that the changes on the engine are limited to an SEAC and exhaust valve bypass, and that extreme changes in the exhaust may render the wide band sensors useless. The module adjusts the fueling real time to attain the pre-defined AFR's at all throttle openings and rpm's in different gears as does Thundermax Autotune or other tuners that work with wideband sensors. The engine runs in closed loop in the whole rpm-range. PCV Autotune is not  complicated and easy to install and adjust. It just my guess but I think this simplicity and effectiveness is partly cause of the disdain shown around these forums by people with vested interests in the tuning business.

From what I read here, you gained about 15hp on a '08 110 motor, right? This is with air cleaner and pipe change? It is very much in line with what we did on a 103" motor.
I used a TTS, and got similar results with yours.
My motor is very predictable, runs smooth, accelerates fine, just about what you would expect from a good running bike.
I am happy with my motor, and know that the VE's are correct across the board on each cylinder.
Some of my friends use other tuning devices and are happy with the results, mostly. Every once in a while some of the devices fail, but, you can always unplug them, right?
I have NO affiliation with any business or manufacture just to set the record straight, but, I DO keep my ears open.

[CR]

@Hogmike. I am not saying that TTS, SERT, Thundermax, Directlink are inferior products, most of all because I am not technically qualified to judge those products. One might even find that the PCV as a piggy-back system with few changeable parameters is less suited as a tuning product. However many have, I think correctly, observed that tuning products are as good as the guy who uses them. Since over here in the Netherlands (Europe) choices are limited, the PCV with its simple userinterface and auto-tune kit with no need for dyno testing seemed the appropriate choice, and I am happy to report that it works well up till now. And yes with one screwdriver (to remove the seat) and a wrench (to change the sensors) I can unplug everything and return the engine to factory settings, which gives me a bit of comfort warranty-wise. I therefore think that PCV is a competitive proposition that will suit many HD-owners. I too have no affiliation whatsoever with manufacturers or businesses and just try to stay informed.

[HOGMIKE]

@Hogmike. I am not saying that TTS, SERT, Thundermax, Directlink are inferior products, most of all because I am not technically qualified to judge those products. One might even find that the PCV as a piggy-back system with few changeable parameters is less suited as a tuning product. However many have, I think correctly, observed that tuning products are as good as the guy who uses them. Since over here in the Netherlands (Europe) choices are limited, the PCV with its simple userinterface and auto-tune kit with no need for dyno testing seemed the appropriate choice, and I am happy to report that it works well up till now. And yes with one screwdriver (to remove the seat) and a wrench (to change the sensors) I can unplug everything and return the engine to factory settings, which gives me a bit of comfort warranty-wise. I therefore think that PCV is a competitive proposition that will suit many HD-owners. I too have no affiliation whatsoever with manufacturers or businesses and just try to stay informed.

I understand completely.
Some of our members here are also very happy with PVC, and the rest. Like you say screw driver and wrench and you're back to stock!
My situation is a bit different, I like to tinker and have the time to do it. Like mufflers, there is a set for everyone, and this forum will weed through most aftermarket parts and tell us likes and dislikes.
That's whats great to have so many  people here with varied backgrounds, gives you SO many choices!

[infanterene]

I am very happy with my pcv. My bike runs great. I dont have the auto tune yet but I will when I decide what cams I want to run.

[Texas 103]

It is all about the tune especially at the low throttle or no throttle on the FBW's.  I spent a lot of time figuring this out way back in the old SERT and 200 application, I could get them to respond almost and I emphasize almost like a cable bike.  I have tuned a lot of FBW's now with the SEST and there is no problem with Throttle lag just off idle, ask some of the guys I have tuned from this forum.  If a cable bike is not tuned correctly just off idle it will "blubber" as well.  The devil is in the details!!!

I'll second that. Ed has tuned both of my 09's, no lag responds just like a cable bike... 

[jfh]

The SESPT has a little know problem in it. The throttle table adjustment doesn't work in all gears, netural being one of them. So setting it to the stock values or maxing it out isn't going to change the issue. Your going to have to live with it or get a Mastertune to fix it.

Steve,

What gears other than neutral does the throttle table adjustment not work in?

thanks

[Fullsac Performance]

   I'll just sit here in the back.

[Steve Cole]

Steve,

What gears other than neutral does the throttle table adjustment not work in?

thanks

Depends on the base calibration you select. Many DBW calibrations did not allow for adjustment for N, 1, 2, 3rd.  I have not bothered to test each one they have released. There have been many complaints about the lack of power in the lower gears with the SESPT. The OE side of the business set things up in the base calibrations to help control torque in the lower gears. This was done as an attempt to keep the crankshafts from twisting.