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[hdnik]

Hello all and thank you in advance for your patience. I'm sure there are numerous threads in this site debating this issue but still need help resolving some issues in my mind.

Here is what I know...
I have a 2010 FLHXSE due to arrive in the new year... so time is not an issue yet. I have decided to go with VH Dresser Dual header and the Klock Werks Revolver Platinum Series Slip-ons. I will leave the OEM Ventilator high-flow for now... But what tuner is best?

I am considering the following... keep in mind that I will not be making a lot of changes afterward. My goal here is to get a better sound, lower overall temperatures, ditch the cats and if it makes a little more power in the process all the better. The bike will never see a dyno and I want to do the install myself.

1. VH - Fuel Pak. Pros... it's price is the best, it's do-it yourself, VH and HD have a racing relationship, there seems to be good support, the stock O2 sensors are retained. The Cons... the codes are proprietary, your don't really know what you are tuning and they currently have no map for the combo... also it just seems to good to be true and there is a lot of negative talk out there for one reason or another.

2. DynoJet PCV. Pros... again price is good, they have a large following, Jamie and Kevin at FuelMoto is very very helpful, lots of options and flexibility and good user interface. The Cons... the fact that you disconnect the O2 sensors is freaking me out. (Can't say why but it is)... also no maps yet.

3. TTS Master Tune.  Pros... it's not a piggy system, it's the old SERT, so I know it works. Cons... the price is climbing and from what i can see it's not as user friendly

4. SEPST - Pro's... It's all HD and likely the best out there. The Cons... The price and the only way to get it is through the dealer which makes the price even worse..

All opinions are welcomed!!

[aka_Matt]

if your 'never' gonna put it on a dyno, get the fuel pak... no sense in wasting money for a "tuner" if your never gonna have it 'tuned'...
if u wanna do it right, get a real 'tuner' and have it dyno tuned to your combo...
also, the true duals will kill the low end power, if u must change the headpipe, get the 'X' pipe they sell... or just have Fullsac remove the cat from the stock headpipe...

[hd-dude]

The TTS is the best thing going. Not sure where you have been shopping but the retail price has been the same since inception. Myself and others here on the forum offer discounts to CVO members. You can also use the TTS v-tune and datamaster programs to get a pretty close tune without putting it on a dyno. Better than any canned map for the PC or fuel pack as it is using real time data collected from your bike for the tune.

[LarryB]

TTS by far the best setup, PC & FP are merely tricks to your system. the new SERT has its array of problems. but as in all things, JMO

[hdnik]

Thank you for the info.... OK I have the SERT on my current bike which i understand to be the TTS Master Tuner and now HD has made a deal with another supplier for the SEPST. It was sold to me by my dealer and they did all the adjusting on my springer. They did a great job, but this time I want to do it myself. I have the skills, just not the knowledge.

In it's simplest terms can I (using the TTS-MT) adjust the ECU myself for near optimal tuning or is that need to be done at the shop? How complicated is the pc user interface software? Can reputable suppliers like FuelMoto supply base maps to get started with? I've been to TTS's website and there is no documentation available or video manuals to evaluate anywhere that I can see on the web... do you know of any?

For example, i can go to VH website or DynoJets site and read "how to" before i actually "do". That's how i got spooked with the Power Commander V when i read that you just disconnect the O2 sensors. I'd really prefer not to add a piggy back module so understanding how to use the TTS prior to buying one and performing the task is important to me.

I guess it's not really the money that's the biggest issue, I mean the bike up here in Canada with taxes will stand me almost $45K so why I'm trying to save a hundred bucks or so is really ridiculous now that i think about it...(must be the Italian in me)... It's more that i really want my own skin in the game.... but i need help understanding things before i execute!

Thanks again all!!

[LarryB]

start here , read everything Steve has to say
http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=5894;sa=showPosts

[timtoolman]

i had a thunder max from zippers on my 07   i loved it but on my 09  i  now use the pcv.  u dont have to "shut off " the o2 sensors, the auto tuner mode is very efficient and worked quicker and the t=max,  but what i really like unlike other tuners,  u can  load 2 maps in it  let the auto tuner do a map for ecoomy  and a map for power then  shuting off the o2 sensors and using a switch mounted on the handle bars.  i used harleys auxillary switch housing and a switch on the left  side  but   u dont have to   its your choice,  cruise and get 48 mpg  and push  switch and get the extra power,  or u can just load a map and keep it in auto tune with the sensors on all the time

[jkelly3919]

i'm in the same position, cvo street glide will be in late jan. i wan't to do something about the bike running lean and the heat but would like to do it myself and keep it simple. i was thinking about the parade fan that harley sells and a fan for the oil cooler. also i don't want to have to worry about voiding the warranty. any help or ideas will be appreciated.
thanks jack

[boerne free bird]

i wan't to do something about the bike running lean and the heat but would like to do it myself and keep it simple. i was thinking about the parade fan that harley sells and a fan for the oil cooler. also i don't want to have to worry about voiding the warranty. any help or ideas will be appreciated.
thanks jack

The cooling fans will address the symptom (heat) rather than the cause (running lean). You'll still be stuck with anemic stock performance. Let it inhale and exhale, and get it properly tuned.  If your seriously worried about the warranty, then get the work done by your dealership before taking the bike home. If they install thee upgrades, they will generally work with you on the warranty issues, if and when they happen.

[sportygordy]

The cooling fans will address the symptom (heat) rather than the cause (running lean). You'll still be stuck with anemic stock performance. Let it inhale and exhale, and get it properly tuned.  If your seriously worried about the warranty, then get the work done by your dealership before taking the bike home. If they install thee upgrades, they will generally work with you on the warranty issues, if and when they happen.

I'm currently working on getting some weather proof fans tested for an oil cooler assist fan, along with recommended vendor/part numbers. If they work out as the fan sales guy claims, it looks like overall cost will be $12-$20 bucks for the set. . The fans will fit behind the deluxe oil cooler. This cost is a far cry from the the $65 price tag the Big Sky Fan guy is trying to get from folks. I say 'trying' cause i hope no-one suckers into buying these things for what he ships to you..at that price.    Hold tight, let me test these things and if they work as the fan guy says I'll post the part numbers and a vendor so you all can save some major dollars..    Installation is as easy as pulling four zip ties..  No chit...    BUT,, let me say again... i wont recommend this if they don't help cool down the oil... I plan on doing an before/aft evaluation to find out if they help out cooling and in either case, i intend to post this info..  The current fan sales guy I'm working with requires a bulk purchase BUT has an idea to work around this.. He is working on that end so still waiting to see what comes with this. If anything he will suggest a vendor but cost for each fan will be a couple bucks more.  The basic idea for this fan assist option can be checked out here by an HDForum member back in 2005. http://hdforums.com/forum/touring-models/227209-oil-cooler-fan-redux.html

I don't intend on stealing anyones idea,, just plan on recomending a good all weather fan.. If any of you want to take this idea and go.... go for it.. just let us know what you used for a fan..  

[hdnik]

start here , read everything Steve has to say
http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=5894;sa=showPosts

Larry, thank you for the link. It pointed me to the user manual for the TTS and threads were very informative. I am reading the 86 page user guide now and am seeing the flexibility of the master tuner. I'll need some time to digest it but time is on my side right now.

Thanx again
Nick

[BMF-110]

SERT for me , get back in and tinker and check, never had a problem.

[LarryB]

Larry, thank you for the link. It pointed me to the user manual for the TTS and threads were very informative. I am reading the 86 page user guide now and am seeing the flexibility of the master tuner. I'll need some time to digest it but time is on my side right now.

Thanx again
Nick

also, when you get the MT, load the CD in your puter, open it up and read the HELP files.

[bf2002flht]

I really like the TTS MT. It is a little intimidating reading the manual first, but is a must. Once you load a map and start the tuning process, you will wonder why you were ever worried. It's actually fun when you get into it.

[hdnik]

LarryB

Could you confirm something for me... this may be a dumb question... according to the calibration summary tables, the base map for my Canadian FLHXSE with VH Duals/Klock Werks Revolver Slip-Ons and the OEM Ventilator A/C is EUJ009-01.

This map is an All Market Map that is described as being for a "CVO 1800" (good so far) with an "Air Cleaner and Breather Kit" (OEM Ventilator should qualify as this; yes?) and with "Race Exhaust" (VH + Klock Werks="Race Exhaust??)

Am I thinking right?

If so... would it also be possible to describe the differences between this map and the original map in the ECU from the factory... and to understand the impact these differences have on the bike like temperature etc??

Nick

[LarryB]

LarryB

Could you confirm something for me... this may be a dumb question... according to the calibration summary tables, the base map for my Canadian FLHXSE with VH Duals/Klock Werks Revolver Slip-Ons and the OEM Ventilator A/C is EUJ009-01.

This map is an All Market Map that is described as being for a "CVO 1800" (good so far) with an "Air Cleaner and Breather Kit" (OEM Ventilator should qualify as this; yes?) and with "Race Exhaust" (VH + Klock Werks="Race Exhaust??)

Am I thinking right? looking good so far, the differences are so minor, but you got it.

If so... would it also be possible to describe the differences between this map and the original map in the ECU from the factory... and to understand the impact these differences have on the bike like temperature etc??
Now thats a good question, you can describe them all you want but can you look at them and see, NO. the original setting can't be opened in the way you open a map. good thing too, there'd be alot of guys messing with that and loose it, Thats when I get the question, Save what? pretty much seat of pants dyno should tell you what you want. I know the 2010 bikes are easier to tune due to the Lambda.
I got a customer that we tuned his 2010 LTD, he loves the kick in the pants, lower temps and he's getting 42-46 MPG

Nick

[hdnik]

Thank you Larry for the quick response. So far I think i'm getting the steps nailed down in my mind. I won't be able to know if the practical application is as easy as i think until i actually do it but here it goes...

1. Buy TTS-MT, install software and download updates
2. Hook up and save original map to my PC (and make backup copies just in case)
3. Upload new base MT7 file into ECU
4. Say a prayer and Test drive
5. Hook up and strap down PC to data collect
6. Review data and merge and save the two files (somehow... not quite sure yet) to create a new MT7 file.
7. Save that new file (back it up too)
8. Upload that new file into ECU
9. Say another prayer and make an act of contrition... then test drive again.
10 Repeat steps 5 - 9 until fresh data has few or no changes to make.

Thoughts???  

[bf2002flht]

You are right on track. regarding your #6 step, the software asks you if you want to create (modify) the map you are using by the info you gathered during the data gathering ride. a simple click of a button. Just keep doing rides with your laptop and keep modifying the file and you will get really close. I had also taken my lady for a few rides with me for more of a load to cover more data acquisition cells. I then had it dyno tuned and they were amazed how close the bike was on the tune. If I new how close I was without the dyno tune, I might have just spent that money elsewhere. Just take several rides and let the software do its work. I am pretty sure you will be happy. The throttle blade setting is the only one you have to change manually if the tbw throttle response isn't to your liking.

[jkelly3919]

does anyone know if the screamin eagle super tuner will learn like the tss mt? i sm thinking about having the dealer install this because of the warranty, i purschased a 7 year and don't wan't any issues down the road.
thanks jack

[LarryB]

Thank you Larry for the quick response. So far I think i'm getting the steps nailed down in my mind. I won't be able to know if the practical application is as easy as i think until i actually do it but here it goes...

1. Buy TTS-MT, install software and download updates
2. Hook up and save original map to my PC (and make backup copies just in case)
3. Upload new base MT7 file into ECU
4. Say a prayer and Test drive
5. Hook up and strap down PC to data collect
6. Review data and merge and save the two files (somehow... not quite sure yet) to create a new MT7 file.
7. Save that new file (back it up too)
8. Upload that new file into ECU
9. Say another prayer and make an act of contrition... then test drive again.
10 Repeat steps 5 - 9 until fresh data has few or no changes to make.

Thoughts???  

you've studied well grasshopper. one thing I do is, before I actually ride the V-tune, I start it up with fans blowing on the motor, and I do as much vtuning in neutral as the heat can take. this will fill in alot of cells to the right/or decel. I vary the throttle till they turn green.then I add that to my Vtune info. ONE thing. DO NOT turn off the bike until you stop the vtune,
another clue, don't try and load the first map into the bike, do several runs and gather lots of info. for instance, 3krpm on a straight road is not the same as 3krpm on an uphill climb, bigger load=different throttle position. I used my highest #, eats a little more gas.

[hdnik]

you've studied well grasshopper. one thing I do is, before I actually ride the V-tune, I start it up with fans blowing on the motor, and I do as much vtuning in neutral as the heat can take. this will fill in alot of cells to the right/or decel. I vary the throttle till they turn green.then I add that to my Vtune info. ONE thing. DO NOT turn off the bike until you stop the vtune,
another clue, don't try and load the first map into the bike, do several runs and gather lots of info. for instance, 3krpm on a straight road is not the same as 3krpm on an uphill climb, bigger load=different throttle position. I used my highest #, eats a little more gas.

Larry, ("Master")

I'm going to have to read the V-Tune Section closer to understand how the data gets loaded into the map, but i'm sure it's stright forward. Thank you for the tips... I'll figure this thing out.

[Trey767]

where can you buy the TTS Tuner?

[LarryB]

where can you buy the TTS Tuner?

pm me, i can hook you up

[hdnik]

pm me, i can hook you up

Larry... send me a personal message if you like re: price & shipping. If you can get it to Niagara Falls NY before next weekend let me know... I have a US address and am staying in the falls ovr the weekend and can bring it back duty and tax free.

[Big Sky Fan]

I'm currently working on getting some weather proof fans tested for an oil cooler assist fan, along with recommended vendor/part numbers. If they work out as the fan sales guy claims, it looks like overall cost will be $12-$20 bucks for the set. . The fans will fit behind the deluxe oil cooler. This cost is a far cry from the the $65 price tag the Big Sky Fan guy is trying to get from folks. I say 'trying' cause i hope no-one suckers into buying these things for what he ships to you..at that price.    Hold tight, let me test these things and if they work as the fan guy says I'll post the part numbers and a vendor so you all can save some major dollars..    Installation is as easy as pulling four zip ties..  No chit...    BUT,, let me say again... i wont recommend this if they don't help cool down the oil... I plan on doing an before/aft evaluation to find out if they help out cooling and in either case, i intend to post this info..  The current fan sales guy I'm working with requires a bulk purchase BUT has an idea to work around this.. He is working on that end so still waiting to see what comes with this. If anything he will suggest a vendor but cost for each fan will be a couple bucks more.  The basic idea for this fan assist option can be checked out here by an HDForum member back in 2005. http://hdforums.com/forum/touring-models/227209-oil-cooler-fan-redux.html

I don't intend on stealing anyones idea,, just plan on recomending a good all weather fan.. If any of you want to take this idea and go.... go for it.. just let us know what you used for a fan..  

Just for your information. "Quigley" in this link is the owner of Big Sky Fan  http://hdforums.com/forum/touring-models/227209-oil-cooler-fan-redux.html

[Big Sky Fan]

I'm currently working on getting some weather proof fans tested for an oil cooler assist fan, along with recommended vendor/part numbers. If they work out as the fan sales guy claims, it looks like overall cost will be $12-$20 bucks for the set. . The fans will fit behind the deluxe oil cooler. This cost is a far cry from the the $65 price tag the Big Sky Fan guy is trying to get from folks. I say 'trying' cause i hope no-one suckers into buying these things for what he ships to you..at that price.    Hold tight, let me test these things and if they work as the fan guy says I'll post the part numbers and a vendor so you all can save some major dollars..    Installation is as easy as pulling four zip ties..  No chit...    BUT,, let me say again... i wont recommend this if they don't help cool down the oil... I plan on doing an before/aft evaluation to find out if they help out cooling and in either case, i intend to post this info..  The current fan sales guy I'm working with requires a bulk purchase BUT has an idea to work around this.. He is working on that end so still waiting to see what comes with this. If anything he will suggest a vendor but cost for each fan will be a couple bucks more.  The basic idea for this fan assist option can be checked out here by an HDForum member back in 2005. http://hdforums.com/forum/touring-models/227209-oil-cooler-fan-redux.html

I don't intend on stealing anyones idea,, just plan on recomending a good all weather fan.. If any of you want to take this idea and go.... go for it.. just let us know what you used for a fan..  

Hey sportygordy, so where is this fan kit for $12 to $20?

[sobercvo]

This dyno eval is based on the following mods: Python slip ons, Harley race tuner and V&H power duals.

[JCZ]

This dyno eval is based on the following mods: Python slip ons, Harley race tuner and V&H power duals.

Those numbers look pretty nice in MPH.  Do you have a dyno sheet that reflects RPMs?