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[Zinister]

I would think a down period would be a good time to address quality issues!!! Take the time to train your workers and put in processes to check the quality.

The only problem I see with the unions is that they do protect the bad employees. The upside is that they help all of us get better wages. And no I'm not in a union, I'm an engineer and I get to see the bean counters cutting costs and resources so that the big wigs get bigger profit sharing. Don't worry, you'll never get any of the extra profit margin in the way of discounted pricing.

[Jerry/MD]

I think he's talking about the rear drive belt adjusters.  I don't know that I agree that they are an improvement over the old style adjusters in terms of precision, but they are much easier for the assembly operation.

There is a way to fix that incorrect assembly, if that's what actually occurred, of the tensioners.  Design the thing so it's impossible to put it together the wrong way.  There are many examples of parts, in all sorts of products, that are designed to only go together one way.  It's called error proofing, and it's something Harley needs to spend a little time learning about.  For instance, things like DC electric tools that monitor installation torque in real time, and either identify fasteners that need repair or actually shut down the process, would help eliminate all those loose parts and maybe allow H-D to eliminate that critical part checklist that they want checked at prep, at 1000 miles, at 5000 miles, and at every subsequent 5000 miles.  

As for the human element, yes there will always be the malcontents and jerks that would rather destroy something rather than be a part of something good.  That's true everywhere, not just at Harley.  If you want to lose a lot of weight, go spend some time hanging out with the employee's of a food processing plant and then see if you really want to eat what they produce.  

Other companies have the same types of humans to choose from, and many of them have unions as well.  How is it that they can produce good products and make good profits while depending on those same flawed creatures to do the physical work?  Don't suppose it has anything to do with management, perhaps?


Jerry

Bingo!!! Like I said earlier...an effective and thoughtful design approach. It may take a bit longer up front...which drives managers nuts...but in the end you have a better product. The problem is it's hard to put an accurate cost savings on reliability and quality improvements. If you could, it would be much easier to get additional hours for the design engineer.

[tennisman]

   BOYS O' BOYS

[ROADROD]

i agree that is more of a design problem with the later models..i have had several air cooled harleys ..now on no.7 cvo bike..never had any real problems until the 07 roadking..went thru all the oil leaks and upgrades..now have a 09 roadglide and have not had any major problems although several smaller ones with 11000 miles...but have also since 2003 had 3 v-rods that me and my wife both ride..her touring bike and my bar hopper..have the 2006 now and i run the sht out of it...24000 miles ..these bike are bullitproof..never had a problem on any of them..change the oil every 5000 miles and ride them..i think the problems are more in the design and the quality of the parts they are using in the later air cooled motors..epecially the 110....

[CVOJOE]

Blame the little guys all you want, but the problem won't be fixed until management gets fixed.  And management won't get fixed until they and the board of directors take off the blinders and accept the fact that they are the problem, not the workforce.

Jerry, that sums it up nicely. I have a couple good friends that work the lines at the MOCO, and over the years they have expressed their frustration about how managment shuts down their suggestions and critiques on how poorly some things are designed as far as assembly and reliabilty. Stress testing is a joke and suppliers are rewarded for lowest prices, not highest reliability. Not a good formula for success and customer satisfaction.
 

[rl48off]

very sad :-

Here is one for you  09 ultra classic back to the dealer at least 12 times for and here is my list.
front tire wear
head bearing loose
compensator nut loose
stator
regulator
brake light switch
Bike wouldn't  start right after 103 build by Harley
3 starters after that
se compensator nut assembly
2 clutch baskets
se air cleaner leaking onto cam cover fixed twice
super tuner backfiring
when at a light rpm drop to 400 and then back up
engine pings 70 to 85 mph
bike is very hot.
Their is probably more that I'm forgetting.  I'm almost done with Harley crap once I let go i'ts gone for ever and I'm pretty close.
One dealer said to me quote  "I feel your pain" Well I didn't think that was so funny.  I have the bike since Oct of 09 and the bike still isn't fixed. 
What the F&%$#