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[Indianlover]

I have a black FLHTCUSE limited. I want more go, maybe 40% more. I ride 2 up and spend most of my time at 2-3500 rpm. I'm after low end torque and it must be a reliable machine when I'm done. Do I buy a 120R and do headwork and upgrade the bottom end or do a large inch build from scratch including cases? I was interested in a Jims but have heard about too many poor service issues. Opinions please. Jeff

[HD Street Performance]

So far looks like good bang for the $
If it holds up....
Switch cams for a little more grunt. TW408-6 or TW8-6

[Indianlover]

What is your opinion on modifying the heads and different piston to get the compression back up then a cam to suit?

[HD Street Performance]

Why?
No need to do that. It starts at 10.5/1 static. Either of the cams I mentioned would suit very well but the 408 would need a valve spring change and roller rockers at bare minimum, geometry fixed better yet.

[tennisman]

Go get a Kawasaki stock 125" mill -  I have one - rock solid reliability and 135 ft-lb torque (with stock intake, PCIII, and Roadhouse slip-ons).  They come on the VN2000 bikes.

 http://www.topspeed.com/motorcycles/motorcycle-reviews/kawasaki/2007-kawasaki-vulcan-2000-classic-lt-ar11057.html

T

[16HD117]

Go get a Kawasaki stock 125" mill -  I have one - rock solid reliability and 135 ft-lb torque (with stock intake, PCIII, and Roadhouse slip-ons).  They come on the VN2000 bikes.

 http://www.topspeed.com/motorcycles/motorcycle-reviews/kawasaki/2007-kawasaki-vulcan-2000-classic-lt-ar11057.html

T

Replace a 10 Ultra Limited with a Kawasaki?
 

[hogasm]

Replace a 10 Ultra Limited with a Kawasaki?
 

Well you wouldn't have to spend another 10k to get it running properly.

[tennisman]

Well you wouldn't have to spend another 10k to get it running properly. 

If you mean by "running properly" you mean add goodies like true cruise control, luggage, radio systems and such....yes, you would, but not $10K.  You also wouldn't have to spend 10k on a Jims motor either, and the reliability AND tractable power is already there in the Kaw in spades in stock form.

I love both my bikes, each for their own reasons.  I find the HD 110" with Stage I is plenty motor for touring, which is why I bought the bike and it hasn't disappointed me except a little in the reliability dept although I'm hopeful that part is behind me since my dealer fixed the starter and upgraded the compensator.  The HD is the best for long distance cruising, hands down.  The Kaw is best for raw torque for the east TN mountains (pulls top gear from 42 mph @ 1600 RPM uphill effortlessly).
T-man

[HUBBARD]

I'd punch that Motor, and go back with a Zipper's 120" Kit, to include their Heads and TB.  Ain't seen any Jim's 120's, or 131's, perform like my Zipper's.  There endeth the lesson.  Later--HUBBARD 

[HOGMIKE]

If you mean by "running properly" you mean add goodies like true cruise control, luggage, radio systems and such....yes, you would, but not $10K.  You also wouldn't have to spend 10k on a Jims motor either, and the reliability AND tractable power is already there in the Kaw in spades in stock form.

I love both my bikes, each for their own reasons.  I find the HD 110" with Stage I is plenty motor for touring, which is why I bought the bike and it hasn't disappointed me except a little in the reliability dept although I'm hopeful that part is behind me since my dealer fixed the starter and upgraded the compensator.  The HD is the best for long distance cruising, hands down.  The Kaw is best for raw torque for the east TN mountains (pulls top gear from 42 mph @ 1600 RPM uphill effortlessly).
T-man

I was there last summer.......where are those mountains??? Never saw any, just some hills!
JUST KIDDING.
Some nice riding out that way!
 

[johnsachs]

I'd punch that Motor, and go back with a Zipper's 120" Kit, to include their Heads and TB.  Ain't seen any Jim's 120's, or 131's, perform like my Zipper's.  There endeth the lesson.  Later--HUBBARD 

I'm not so sure about that..............
Here's a Jim's 120 I did a while back.Actually I've done several in this range. 
John

[hogasm]

I'm not so sure about that..............
Here's a Jim's 120 I did a while back.Actually I've done several in this range. 
John

My question is why buy a motor and then pay to have it done over instead of just building one right from the start

[Indianlover]

That's my issue too. I'm afraid the stock 120 won't be enough without major headwork, then a different piston to get the compression back up, then cams, then beefed up crank, bearings and flywheel or whatever. I know going from a 96" to a 110" seemed about a 10-15% increase in power. If a 110" to a 120" is another 10 or 15% I wonder if the price for the 120 would be better spent on a custom built that I would keep and swap as I trade up in model years. I dunno, I just want to do it right the first time instead of "I wish". Buy a set of cases, axtell jugs, bomb proof crank, worked heads and recommended components to go with them?...

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

As John has made mention,(his makes more ) 120"s (4 1/2" S&S crank, 4 1/8" Axtell cylinders) have shown us 135/135, SAE. Good combination. Very straight-foward engine build. 
Scott

[timtoolman]

why not the jims 131 then?   already built like the 120,  if your going to put more money in the 120 then buy the 131 and get more torque and  hp from the start with out going inside the engine.  there is a posting in this forum already from someone that just did that.  im thinking about it myself,  As far as service issues over  the 110 ??   yeah  right,

[Texas 103]

why not the jims 131 then?   already built like the 120,  if your going to put more money in the 120 then buy the 131 and get more torque and  hp from the start with out going inside the engine.  there is a posting in this forum already from someone that just did that.  im thinking about it myself,  As far as service issues over  the 110 ??   yeah  right,

Yea.. Ask unbalanced about that...

[HUBBARD]

I'm not so sure about that..............
Here's a Jim's 120 I did a while back.Actually I've done several in this range. 
John

Dyno performance is one thing.............Road performance is quite another.  I am sure of that.  Later--HUBBARD

[timtoolman]

does that mean they are all bad.  or just his cause he was special??

[johnsachs]

Dyno performance is one thing.............Road performance is quite another.  I am sure of that.  Later--HUBBARD

The several I've done,ain't no conversation piece, attitude is......"Bring a bag of money, and take the next lane".After the a$$ whipping, we can go on the ride of your choice,however far it may be.  
John  

[laylonlor]

thats is some funny s**t

[SneakyPete]

I'd punch that Motor, and go back with a Zipper's 120" Kit, to include their Heads and TB.  Ain't seen any Jim's 120's, or 131's, perform like my Zipper's.  There endeth the lesson.  Later--HUBBARD 

I'll second Carl's recommendation, go with the Zipper's 120 kit.  I've got 50K miles on my build thusfar and runs like a raped ape.  Official motor of the HBRR!

[HUBBARD]

The several I've done,ain't no conversation piece, attitude is......"Bring a bag of money, and take the next lane".After the a$$ whipping, we can go on the ride of your choice,however far it may be.  
John  

John,

WTF does that mean, exactly?  Please advise.  Later--HUBBARD 

[johnsachs]

John,

WTF does that mean, exactly?  Please advise.  Later--HUBBARD 

It means that these bikes are as reliable as a stock Jim's 120 in the right hands,and the road performance/power MATCHES the dyno #'s. 
John

[Unbalanced]

Ole Hubbard,

I think he is calling out ole maudie ...     the other part is bring cash

[HUBBARD]

Ole Hubbard,

I think he is calling out ole maudie ...     the other part is bring cash

That's what I thought.  I live for that kind of chit.  Ol' Maudie's ready, and "cash", always rides with me.  Let the Games begin.  Later--HUBBARD

[HUBBARD]

The several I've done,ain't no conversation piece, attitude is......"Bring a bag of money, and take the next lane".After the a$$ whipping, we can go on the ride of your choice,however far it may be.  
John  

Talks cheap.  Bring it to Maggie Valley.  Later--HUBBARD

[SBB]

Talks cheap.  Bring it to Maggie Valley.  Later--HUBBARD

Bring it to Maggie Valley?  WTF? ? ? ? ?
You make your first event in 2 years and the day the event starts you tell him to "Talks cheap. Bring it to Maggie Valley"?
How about Daytona, Biketoberfest?
I suspect other people are just as busy as you are and a little notice is always nice.
Just sayin, , , , , ,

SBB

[johnsachs]

Talks cheap.  Bring it to Maggie Valley.  Later--HUBBARD

I can say if you get down to So.Fla.,prolly 2 of these bikes WILL give you a play.I can't speak for the others,as they're out of state.
BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT, I can be your "Huckleberry" with my beat up '95 FLHR. 
We're racing at So. Georgia Motorsports in Valdosta/Cecil,Ga. Nov. 11&12.We can put up some freeze out money(so if 1 of us doesn't show,the other gets the money),and race there.Quarter mile,Christmas tree starts,sanctioned drag strip.
Got to figure the ride is closer for you than for me.
John 

[skyhook]

my money is on mr sachs...i've seen his resume

love to be in the stands for that race

back on topic...even if it were more expensive, i would prefer a one-off build to suit my needs as opposed to the screamin' eagle motor...i like to be in on the design process

[HUBBARD]

I can say if you get down to So.Fla.,prolly 2 of these bikes WILL give you a play.I can't speak for the others,as they're out of state.
BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT, I can be your "Huckleberry" with my beat up '95 FLHR. 
We're racing at So. Georgia Motorsports in Valdosta/Cecil,Ga. Nov. 11&12.We can put up some freeze out money(so if 1 of us doesn't show,the other gets the money),and race there.Quarter mile,Christmas tree starts,sanctioned drag strip.
Got to figure the ride is closer for you than for me.
John 

1/4 Mile?  Hell, that ain't Racin'!  Couldn't even get Ol' Maudie stretched out in a 1/4 Mile!  I tell you what, take yours to Deltona, and if you can get by Harry, (Unbalanced), on a streched out, 4 or 5 Mile run, you may spark my curiosity.  Later--HUBBARD   

[HUBBARD]

Bring it to Maggie Valley?  WTF? ? ? ? ?
You make your first event in 2 years and the day the event starts you tell him to "Talks cheap. Bring it to Maggie Valley"?
How about Daytona, Biketoberfest?
I suspect other people are just as busy as you are and a little notice is always nice.
Just sayin, , , , , ,

SBB

Just sayin' what?  As for my absence, have you forgotten about my less than perfect Hip-Replacement?  Not to shame ya', but "Just sayin............furthermore, I know I'm less than cautious on a Motorsickle when I'm Sober, but me on a Motorsickle takin' narcotics, is a bad wreck waitin' to happen.  Not to shame ya', but "Just sayin'.......................add to that, I ain't goin' to Biketoberfest.  That guy challenged me.  Ol' Maudie don't need no notice.  If one wants to see how she runs, come see.  Not bein' a smarta$$, "Just sayin'.................BTW, was great to see you and Nancy.  Had a Blast!  My only regret is I didn't get the opportunity to bust your a$$!  Grateful to be back in the Saddle, and have Great Friends like you and Nancy!  See ya'll next time.  Later--HUBBARD     

[SBB]

That guy challenged me. DUH, So I guess if you race it's going to be on your terms and at your convenience. So you only want to run wide open? I'm sure Mr. Sachs can arrange a meeting like that.


Ol' Maudie don't need no notice.  If one wants to see how she runs, come see.  Not bein' a smarta$$, "Just sayin'.................


BTW, was great to see you and Nancy. Likewise Carl!


   Had a Blast!  My only regret is I didn't get the opportunity to bust your a$$!

Ol' Maudie don't need no notice.

Candy Ass I say. We all know you make your own opportunities. If you wanted to run my 44K mile 09 SEUC, you should have mentioned it.

Ol' Maudie My 09 SEUC don't need no notice either.

I know how to hold that bike wide open also, that ability is nothing exclusive that only you have a corner on the market.
I put a 1000 miles on the bike this weekend and a few more above a 100 could have been yours if you hadn't been so bashful.




   Grateful to be back in the Saddle, and have Great Friends like you and Nancy! You, Kenny and Otis are always welcome at the SBB Inn when your in the area.  See ya'll next time.   Later--HUBBARD    

Carl

Had a Blast!  My only regret is I didn't get the opportunity to bust your a$$!

I have no regrets. We had a blast this weekend and made many new friends. Next time we meet lets just air them out and get it over with. I'm out here just living the dream and hate it  when my friends have regrets. I will be there for you. Let me know when you can fit me in your busy schedule. I'll even send John Sachs a pm and see if he can fit us in also! As I said, I'm here for you!

SBB

[HUBBARD]

You're full o' chit, Chip.  You know you can't get around Ol' Maudie.  Later--HUBBARD

[SBB]

You're full o' chit, Chip.  You know you can't get around Ol' Maudie.  Later--HUBBARD

HEY
Maude the trailer queen has seen better days.
In the twisties, at the drag strip or wide open the 09 SEUC don't care.
The 09 SEUC is not a "Prima Donna" like Maude, at 44K miles the 09 SEUC has seen it all.
And not from the inside of some cute little trailer.
No regrets there!

   

 

SBB

[lastdegree]

Is this thread lost?  I'm interested in the 120 or a new build and have issues with dealers here in the UK let alone crossed pee swords at dawn from guys that know better. 

To each his own, can we get back to the thread or is this done?

I guess you guys actually could add value or can you?

Cheers

[HUBBARD]

HEY
Maude the trailer queen has seen better days.
In the twisties, at the drag strip or wide open the 09 SEUC don't care.
The 09 SEUC is not a "Prima Donna" like Maude, at 44K miles the 09 SEUC has seen it all.
And not from the inside of some cute little trailer.
No regrets there!

   

 

SBB

Blah, Blah, Blah.  Maudie's tail lights and 114 fumes.   Just like the last time.  Later--HUBBARD    

[HUBBARD]

Is this thread lost?  I'm interested in the 120 or a new build and have issues with dealers here in the UK let alone crossed pee swords at dawn from guys that know better. 

To each his own, can we get back to the thread or is this done?

I guess you guys actually could add value or can you?

Cheers

Thread is in tact, just some of its Members stray from time to time.  You're right, lastdegree.  I apologize for my bullchitting.  Neal Taylor at Tilley's HD, in Statesville, NC, built my Zipper's 120.  Don Tilley mentored Neal, and he is one of the best, IMO.  Mine is built from the Original 88.  No problems, 22K on the build.  Runs like a scalded dog.  It has been abused, too.  Good luck.  Later--HUBBARD

[SBB]

The 120 Jims in my Frontier was built with Tman Performance parts.
140/141 and very dependable.
The bike surrounding the motor wasn't built as well as the motor.
But that's another story and don't want lastdegree getting upset if I was to explain it.

www.tmanperformance.com

SBB

[lastdegree]

That's better.   

OK, real world situation:  Do I have a US builder scratch build a motor and sent it over?  Or do I trust someone here in the UK? 

Cheers

[SBB]

That's better.   

OK, real world situation:  Do I have a US builder scratch build a motor and sent it over?  Or do I trust someone here in the UK? 

Cheers

That's a question only you can answer.
It's like what is better, a blue bike or a silver bike or a red one.

Or do I trust someone here in the UK?

Sooner or later you have to trust someone over there if you can't do the work yourself.
You can have it built here and shipped there but how do you deal with followup and warranty work, because there will be none.
A motor like your speaking of is an approx 10K investment that can be the greatest thing or the biggest POS you ever wasted money on.
If you don't have someone you can trust I'd pass on the entire deal.

SBB

[HUBBARD]

That's better.   

OK, real world situation:  Do I have a US builder scratch build a motor and sent it over?  Or do I trust someone here in the UK? 

Cheers

Decisions, decisions.  I'm sure there are some reptuable Engine Builders in the UK, but unknown to me.  I do know Don Tilley, and his reputation precedes him.  Whomever you choose to build, I would suggest the same Builder from start to finish.  Personally, I've always built the original Motor.  Good Luck.  Later--HUBBARD

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

The Ultima Evo 120's, tap on the 150 ft/lb door with a Wood 9B. FWIW.
Scott

[kraut]

Do I have a US builder scratch build a motor and sent it over?  Or do I trust someone here in the UK? 

beware of having a custom built engine sent over the pond. As likely as not there will be issues and nobody will feel obliged to adress them properly.

Find yourself a trustworthy dealer in EU and get the best he may offer you. Over the time reliablility and local service weigh more than 10 hp surplus if you want to ride your bike on the real road and not only display it for show.

[lastdegree]

Good advice.  Like the idea of a ground-up build if I can be persuaded to someone local or close to me or a JIMS 131 fitted by the dealer.  Will make some enquiries and update you all.

[FXDRYDR]

Wow!!  Some good info here and some big talk too...

Not only is John Sachs one of the best engine builders / head porters in the country, he's a hell of a nice guy and his builds deliver.  He's also an experienced racer.  I'd love to get in on a piece of this - and make the trip to watch the show too. 

An internet commando on another board I hit sometimes also runs his mouth about his hotrod metric build - a Warrior.  He had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Sachs on his bagger one evening and had his azz handed to him pretty badly.  Credit where it's due, as he had the ballz to post up about "some old guy named Sachs or something handing him his azz on the fastest Harley he'd ever seen..."  LOL!!  If this actually plays out, we'll see the same story but I kinda doubt we'll see it. 

[lastdegree]

welcome FXDRYDR - introduction would be nice? 

Cheers

[lastdegree]

Matt's machine shop has been recommended in Wales, GB of all places.  Starting a conversation with Matt regarding a 120" build on my 110".  Will send his recommendations when they arrive.  Dealer's not really interested in a Jims or a build only a new 120" screamin eagle motor. 

When do the big boys head to head?  May take a trip on a plane

Cheers

[tennisman]

If you want POWER, go buy a GXR or CB1000RR and get some real power.  These are just touring bikes, ya know!

[HUBBARD]

HEY
Maude the trailer queen has seen better days.
In the twisties, at the drag strip or wide open the 09 SEUC don't care.
The 09 SEUC is not a "Prima Donna" like Maude, at 44K miles the 09 SEUC has seen it all.
And not from the inside of some cute little trailer.
No regrets there!

   

 

SBB

Seen better days?  Just because Unbalanced pulled away from the Ol' Girl with his 200 in., 200 HP Road Queen, Maudie needs to be retired?  You're full of it, Chip.  Nobody has come around Ol' Maudie in a hard run.  I ran soooooooo fast Saturday on 276, I think I ran out of Gear.  Do the Math for me, Professor, how fast is 5500 RPM in 6th gear?  She'll retire when I do.  Later--HUBBARD

[lastdegree]

Glad to see Hubbard back - sorry that i stopped the momentum 

Tennisman - fully agree.  It's a bit like why buy an old corvette with a big block when a new M3 will smoke it's azz?  Simple, we likes the look of the HD touring bikes and want some more up, up and go. And, let's be fair, no Jap will ever have soul or heritage for that matter.

Cheers

[SBB]

Seen better days?  Just because Unbalanced pulled away from the Ol' Girl with his 200 in., 200 HP Road Queen, Maudie needs to be retired?  You're full of it, Chip.  Nobody has come around Ol' Maudie in a hard run.  I ran soooooooo fast Saturday on 276, I think I ran out of Gear.  Do the Math for me, Professor, how fast is 5500 RPM in 6th gear?  She'll retire when I do.  Later--HUBBARD

Hub

Go back and see Neal at Tilleys.
If your telling us that motor will only pull 5500 in 6th you need more gear.
Hell my 09 SEUC will do that. And it's a candy ass wimpy 110 that subject to flying apart at any time.
And while your at it get you a GPS for the bike, those wild claims of 140+ will all go away with the GPS.
 

sorry that i stopped the momentum 

No problem there, twisties, 1/4 mile or WFO, my money is on a John Sachs build.

 

SBB

[HUBBARD]

Hub

Go back and see Neal at Tilleys.
If your telling us that motor will only pull 5500 in 6th you need more gear.
Hell my 09 SEUC will do that. And it's a candy ass wimpy 110 that subject to flying apart at any time.
And while your at it get you a GPS for the bike, those wild claims of 140+ will all go away with the GPS.
 

No problem there, twisties, 1/4 mile or WFO, my money is on a John Sachs build.

 


You'd be a great politician, the way you twist chit around.  I did not imply she quit pullin' at 5500.  I simply wanted to know my true MPH at that RPM.  I can only calculate speeds for Commercial Trucks.  I don't have the final drive ratio for Harleys, or the sidewall measurement from the rim to the ground, as Ol' Maudie is resting in the Garage.  I thought you did, and could calculate it for me with minimal effort, as you are more informed in these matters than I.  However, don't put yourself out.  I'll do it myself.  I'm sure John Sachs knows his business, and I respect that.  But hell, Derek Cope won a Race once.  Now, twist that to suit you.   Later--HUBBARD  

SBB

[HUBBARD]

WTF happened there?