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[Twolanerider]

     I found another option. How about the S&S VFI module and 52 mm S&S throttle body? Anyone use that setup or hear any pros-cons? Be nice to chitcan the MM module and TB all-together.

Sorry but have never had hands on that setup.  Have read before that in combination they do succeed in replacing the M&M throttle body with the S&S single throat TB.  How well the ECM works or what its software suite might be like is something left to someone with actual experience though.

[clegg]

Yeah, be nice to get first hand data. The S&S website is pretty short on fact. It sounds like a cheaper version of the Zippers setup that replaces the TB and ECM. (Around $1,200-$1,300 bucks)

[Twolanerider]

Yeah, be nice to get first hand data. The S&S website is pretty short on fact. It sounds like a cheaper version of the Zippers setup that replaces the TB and ECM. (Around $1,200-$1,300 bucks)

Perhaps some cheaper.   But in the end I doubt very much.  That Thundermax conversion kit includes a Delphi throttle body and intake set that are complete.  The S&S throttle body kit has injectors but none of the other sensors on the throttle body nor does it come with an intake. 

The Thundermax kit also comes with a good free flowing air cleaner assembly that mates to the supplied throttle body.  You'd have an air cleaner assembly yet to buy to mate to the S&S part.  All those parts will quickly eat up all if not more than the $500 difference in the kits.

I dislike Zippers so much I don't care for recommending their product.  But between the two options it looks like the T-Max kit is the better option.  No piecing together of more parts on your own to complete the retrofit and a slightly more seamless installation.  Once installed it's just a Thundermax module and software like any other also.  So it's far more of a known quantity and the software isn't bad.

Also don't know if the S&S kit offers an accessory o2 sensor add-on for onboard fuel tuning.  The Thundermax kit does allow addition of their "auto-tune" kit to the package.  Not that it's a necessity.  But if going that far one might at least want the option.

[Ironhorse]

I dislike Zippers so much I don't care for recommending their product. 

I'll go one further. I like the Zippers product, but dislike their customer support. I say go with a carb and be done with it.

[Twolanerider]

I'll go one further. I like the Zippers product, but dislike their customer support. I say go with a carb and be done with it.

Can't disagree with you Mark.  At least in my experience they were unbelievably bad not just to work with but to try to talk to.  The answer of the day when asking product information was whatever you needed to hear to get you off the phone and guys that needed actual help after the fact have been blown off so much it's not even surprising anymore.  If someone goes with their T-Max kit you have to do it with open eyes and assume you're working on your own.  That even if everything goes well you're still on your own dialing in the map at the end or working with a tuner who likes T-Max.

All that could easily be enough to push someone to a carb conversion instead.  I much prefer a well functioning fuel injection system over a carb.  But Zippers has earned enough distrust over the years to eat up a lot of that difference in preference.

[clegg]

I suspect my builder is edging towards the carb conversion, and thats ok too. As long as my cruise works and the bike runs good. It pains me to stand on the sideline (being a mechanic) and let somone else build my engine. I have done everything else on my bike and rebuilt lots of engines, but I am a cage mechanic and will not try to fool myself into thinking I know enough about this engine to split the case. I guess here is to hoping I have selected a good tuner / builder because his opinion coupled with my ability to produce money is what will ultimately drive one choice over another. I guess if I can't trust him to choose an induction system I should not trust him to build my engine... (Funny I can rebuild a V12 BMW, but I don't trust myself on my twin cam. I'll blame it on a lack of special tools...)

[Twolanerider]

I suspect my builder is edging towards the carb conversion, and thats ok too. As long as my cruise works and the bike runs good. It pains me to stand on the sideline (being a mechanic) and let somone else build my engine. I have done everything else on my bike and rebuilt lots of engines, but I am a cage mechanic and will not try to fool myself into thinking I know enough about this engine to split the case. I guess here is to hoping I have selected a good tuner / builder because his opinion coupled with my ability to produce money is what will ultimately drive one choice over another. I guess if I can't trust him to choose an induction system I should not trust him to build my engine... (Funny I can rebuild a V12 BMW, but I don't trust myself on my twin cam. I'll blame it on a lack of special tools...)

I can empathize.  Not now but for all intents grew up in a machine shop.  Still do track engines for a few buddies that run.  But while I'll split cases and do a bike bottom end I don't really like to.  Do it way too rarely.  Don't feel like I've got enough hands.  Just not enough familiarity to be really comfortable.

Good luck as the project progresses.  Be sure and keep the story updated.  The retrofits are always interesting.

[clegg]

    Update time. My 106 is built, but not yet eating gas. I went with the S&S conversion. As the internals are all S&S we had S&S pre-map the computer after giving them all the specs. From there the auto-tune will pick up the slack. ( I hope.) The system did have the intake and everything, such as fuel regulator, sensors, etc. Installed the O2 sensors for the upgraded auto tune. It looks danged impressive. I will not find out how it runs for another day or two. Once I have some clue of how it is going to work I will post an update.

[Ironhorse]

Can't wait to hear how it works.

I know you went S&S, but the one other option I forgot to mention was

http://www.vtwinfuelinjection.com/

Dan Thayer has a whole Delphi coversion kit to include single throat throttle body and wiring harness. I've talked to him a couple of times when I was struggling with Zippers. I told him of how much money I had spent and my frustrations with Zippers support. I told him I was considering his converstion kit too. He told me that unless I was dead set on having FI, to just go with a carb as it is much less expensive, dependable and easily tuned.

[clegg]

     Yeah, I was pretty dead set on fuel injection. I like the easy starting, tuneablity, the way that elevation changes are handled better, etc. I just hope this system pans out. A lot of my riding is longer trips. I put on at least 70 miles a day going to work, so I will get some input pretty quick once I get it back.

[JohnCA58]

I have had good luck with the HPi TB, both the 48mm and 51mm,  both magnetti system in the 110 to 115 hp. with no issues at all but 115 was the limit with MM Red injectors.    currently building the 120R engine and will be running the HPi 55 mm with delphi 6.2 injectors,  the first two did use the PCIII,  this 120R build will be using the SERT tuner.  yes TTS still has the MM tuner available also.   I have a great tuner in Bob at RC Cycles that will make this run great.

[RGSRULE]

hey guys do you think the TTS for m/m ,is a good move,wanna stay efi but if its still gonna be problematic i will prob go carb, just trying to make the right move.

[JohnCA58]

on my 120R,  I am going to run the HPi 55mm with delphi injectors,  your limiting your power with the red injectors.  they are the biggest they make for the MM TB.   I will be doing the tuning with SERT,   the TTS is still the same old SERT for the MM bikes. 

[clegg]

     Mine is all done. The S&S VFI system is working great. It is just a little poppy on decel, but I only have 300 miles on it so far. (stupid rain..) The 52mm throttle body and new computer seem much smoother than the old MM system ever dreamt of being. I suspect some of my pop may be from the overlap in the cams, but it should still be autotuning itself as well. I am very happy with it. I had S&S pre-program it after going over my build with them. It fires right up and runs like a champ. The mileage seams pretty low right now, but doing break in miles it probably will. Always up and down the RPM range and all...I know that at the reduced amount of throttle I am willing to give it during break in this thing is making POWER. Love it. I don't second guess the call at all. The MM conversion came with everything you need for install, to include the S&S aircleaner to fit the throttle body. Nothing else to buy, and works great. Plus it cost less than the Zippers system.

[clegg]

     By the way, the autotune kit for the S&S VFI system is only a couple hundred bucks more, so why not right? The O2 sensors are a good bit bigger than the factory Harley ones, so they are a tight fit. They don't look obtrusive though. I will have to pull the pipe to pull a sensor though. Hopefully I will never need to.