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[2006ULTRA]

I have V&H Power duals with 4" Rhineharts now.  I like the looks but don't care for the sound.  I know a 2 into 1 will perform better with my engine mods.  I used to run a FatCat on my old bike and liked that pipe a lot but since I ran that pipe 20,000 miles I want something different this time.

I've done a lot of research and haven't found anything negative about Dragos.  I'm ordering the Dragula with ghost pipe 2.55 baffles.

I'm hoping to bring my lower end TQ up a bit.  The setup I have now is lazy under 3000 rpm.  I know that's in part to the cam that I'm running but the new pipe should help.

Anyone running the Dragula?

[Cvostu]

Ken,,,  North Georgia Hawg seems to love that pipe and all the noise that goes with it.  You can catch him on here regularly. He's a really knowledgable guy too. 
 

[2006ULTRA]

Yeah I've read a lot of his post's about his pipes.  I went with the dragula which is a step header instead of a straight head pipe. 

I hope the pipe has some bark.

[Midnight Rider]

Yeah I've read a lot of his post's about his pipes.  I went with the dragula which is a step header instead of a straight head pipe. 

I hope the pipe has some bark.

I'm pretty sure that is an understatement...

[2006ULTRA]

I can't wait!!

[Big Dog]

Frank has done some intense testing on his pipe and squeezes every last bit of HP he can out of them. He's really good to deal with and extremely helpful with questions. He is a favorite amongst sponsors on the Roadglide.org website and many there use his exhaust set ups. Have a read on the site, it'll make you feel good about your purchase.

[North Georgia Hawg]

You will LOVE the Dragula! I did a good deal of research on 2-1 pipes before I bought the S/C/S-4. I talked with Frank for probably a total of 3 hours over several conversations. He is a GREAT guy, and is very knowledgeable about how our antique tractor engines really work. He builds 200+ HP blower engines - so he knows a thing or two about making power.

I went with the S/C/S-4 mostly because Frank said it has a bit better low-end torque because of the straight headers and a different collector than the Dragula - but the S/C/S-4 uses the same Dragula muffler. It's got a NICE rumble at idle, and it really BARKS when you get on it. Might not be quite as loud as the Fat Cat - it isn't as loud at idle. Until a couple of months ago, Franks had the S/C/S-4 on his personal 182 HP ride - but he finally switched out to the Dragula.

One of the guys I ride with loves to ride behind me... he says the sound of my pipe makes his bike FEEL FASTER!   

One thing about 2-1 pipes is that they breathe very differently than 2-1-2 pipes like the stock system or the Fullsac setup. They are more difficult to tune properly, as well. Mr. Wizard and I have had to do a LOT of tweaking of the main lambda table and especially the EGR tables to get the tune right and eliminate the decal popping. That's kinds of a work in process. But once you have your bike tuned properly, a 2-1 pipe will perform like no other - and the Drago's pipe sounds AWESOME!

I am currently researching going to different cams from the 54Hs I am running now. The 54Hs are great with the Fullsac setup - but I think the big 2-1 pipe just needs more exhaust duration than the 238 duration of the 54Hs in order to flow well and make its max power - especially in the higher RPM/kPa ranges. There is a (likely technically incorrect) term called "overexhausting", that I think may be happening on my bike with my setup (54Hs, Cometic head gaskets, Big Sucker Stage 2, S/C/S-4). I think what may be happening is a gas flow slowdown in the pipe due to the exhaust valve not remaining open long enough to keep the exhaust flowing well. From the research I've done, I am hopeful that increasing the exhaust duration with different cams will address it. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it... until I prove or disprove it... then I'll have to come up with another theory! 

While I'm in the engine, I'm going to beef up the cam plate and oil pump with the Feuling 8015 plate and 7060 pump, which should help with oiling and removing engine heat. I'm also going to install Feuling quick install adjustable pushrods (to make any future cam swaps easier!), and I'm installing roller rockers and forged rocker supports as well - due to the higher lift on the cams I'm looking at. I don't want anything to ever break in there! Eventually I will have the crank done, and beef up the low end. Then I'll probably burn out the clutch and have to do something about that, and probably go to the 30T front pulley. It never ends...

[2006ULTRA]

I'm considering a cam change too.  Frank said the cam I have isn't idea for my compression.  I bought my bike used so I wasn't involved with the mods to the motor.  I do know that the guy who did my setup builds race motors and he builds all the 110's the way he did mine.  With that said I'm a little hesitant about changing the cams because when one guy builds a motor with a certain set of components he does it for a reason.  My heads and intake are ported and I really don't know what my exact compression is so if I go messing with his combo I might regret it.  The only variable on his builds are exhaust.  Hopefully I make a change for the better.

[North Georgia Hawg]

I'm considering a cam change too.  Frank said the cam I have isn't idea for my compression.  I bought my bike used so I wasn't involved with the mods to the motor.  I do know that the guy who did my setup builds race motors and he builds all the 110's the way he did mine.  With that said I'm a little hesitant about changing the cams because when one guy builds a motor with a certain set of components he does it for a reason.  My heads and intake are ported and I really don't know what my exact compression is so if I go messing with his combo I might regret it.  The only variable on his builds are exhaust.  Hopefully I make a change for the better.

What cams did Frank recommend? If you don't know your CR, then how can you know if it's not enough for the cams? Your TW-9B-6 cams have 22/50 52/20 timing, .630" lift, and 252/252 duration. Those are some pretty serious street cams! They need at least 10.5-1 CR to work well. Do you know if high-comp pistons were used in the build? With the info in your sig, I would think you are running way more than stock CR. I would ask the builder what the CR really is... he should know.

Is your bike really making 124 TQ and 121 HP now? I would expect it to be running significantly more than stock CR to be making anywhere near that kind of power. Frankly, I wouldn't do much of anything to it with those numbers...

[2006ULTRA]

I did a compression test and got 185 psi in the front and rear cylinder.  My heads are decked to raise compression.  They also used stock pistons.

I was told by an engine builder that I have at least 10.1 if not more getting those numbers with my cams. 

Frank recommended a cam but I can't remember what he said??? I'm going to try the pipe first and go from there.  I'm just tired of the motor being lazy right off idle.  I would like it a little more crisp if you know what I mean.

[North Georgia Hawg]

I did a compression test and got 185 psi in the front and rear cylinder.  My heads are decked to raise compression.  They also used stock pistons.

I was told by an engine builder that I have at least 10.1 if not more getting those numbers with my cams. 

Frank recommended a cam but I can't remember what he said??? I'm going to try the pipe first and go from there.  I'm just tired of the motor being lazy right off idle.  I would like it a little more crisp if you know what I mean.

Well, if your CR is only 10.1-1, then I see Frank's point. I would really be interested to know what cams he recommends for your build with the Dragula. Going to shorter-duration cams will help increase low-RPM torque, at the expense of massive high-RPM HP. But torque is what gets you moving quickly - an increase in the rate of acceleration. HP is only a calculated number - a function of torque * RPM / 5252 as a scaling factor. I would expect that whatever cams Frank recommends would likely have shorter duration than the 252/252 duration of your current Woods cams.

You said that the guy who built your engine builds race engines. That concerns me, and explains something. Race engines are built to run at high RPM to produce massive total power (TQ and HP) for a short time - and that means big, long-duration, high-lift cams like the ones you are running. But these cams are not designed to produce a lot of torque at lower RPM, that you seem to be looking for. I'm not surprised that you have to turn higher RPM to produce the power with your cams... they are ground to do exactly that. The 54H cams that I am currently running don't really come in strongly until about 2700 RPM, and they only have a far-lower 238/238 duration than your cams.

You are making a lot of peak power with your current setup... the question is "where in the RPM range is that power actually being made?" If it's all being made at high RPM, then your bike is going to feel sluggish on the low-end - which you say it does. Do you have your dyno chart that shows your TQ/HP curve that you could post? The TQ curve tells you volumes about how the bike will actually accelerate - whereas the simple peak TQ/HP numbers won't give you a clue about that. I had an interesting discussion with a guy at Andrews about this very subject recently, and he said that a lot of customers seem to be more interested in peak TQ/HP numbers than they are about the torque curve... he supposed it's for "bragging rights". But high peak TQ/HP numbers are pretty worthless if they aren't made until close to 5000 RPM... most guys don't want to run their engine up there all the time to make usable power. I certainly don't!

I wouldn't look to the Dragula to help you specifically with increasing low-end torque over what you are running now without changing the cams. It's a big pipe made to handle a lot of airflow and HP, and airflow is much less at lower RPM. But as RPMs increase, I would expect to see more of a difference, because airflow is increasing. For a low-end torque increase, I would look to shorter-duration cams.

Honestly, I haven't noticed any better low-end torque on Buster after I installed the S/C/S-4 (I was running the Fullsac X-Pipe and the Fullsac 2" CVO PowerCore baffles previously) - and the S/C/S-4 has the straight headers that are supposed to help with the low-end more than the Dragula.

Ken

[2006ULTRA]

I have a link to the dyno sheet at work, I will check tomorrow and see if I can find it.  I bought the bike off this forum from CrazyBob.  He and his friend did exact builds except for slip on pipes.  They live in Maryland and had the work done at a Harley dealer there.  I tried to get the dyno sheet faxed to me but the dealer wouldn't do it without Bob's permission.  Just never followed up on it.

I spent a few years drag racing so I understand the importance of matching all your components to make power.  Peak HP/TQ really don't get you down the track any faster than a guy with a good combination who has lower dyno numbers than you do.  It's all in the set up.  I'm not out to win races I just want a crisp responsive motor with a strong power curve.  My bikes pulls like a freight train now, not complaining about full on throttle.

I want a better sound than what I have and better low end response.  I can't imagine that a good 2 into 1 pipe wouldn't out perform my current exhaust.

Hopefully I'll have the pipe on by the weekend so I can see for myself.

[North Georgia Hawg]

I have a link to the dyno sheet at work, I will check tomorrow and see if I can find it.  I bought the bike off this forum from CrazyBob.  He and his friend did exact builds except for slip on pipes.  They live in Maryland and had the work done at a Harley dealer there.  I tried to get the dyno sheet faxed to me but the dealer wouldn't do it without Bob's permission.  Just never followed up on it.

I spent a few years drag racing so I understand the importance of matching all your components to make power.  Peak HP/TQ really don't get you down the track any faster than a guy with a good combination who has lower dyno numbers than you do.  It's all in the set up.  I'm not out to win races I just want a crisp responsive motor with a strong power curve.  My bikes pulls like a freight train now, not complaining about full on throttle.

I want a better sound than what I have and better low end response.  I can't imagine that a good 2 into 1 pipe wouldn't out perform my current exhaust.

Hopefully I'll have the pipe on by the weekend so I can see for myself.

Sounds like you've been down this road before. Like I said... it's all in the torque curve... and lower duration cams simply make more low-RPM power than high-duration cams do... subject to lots of other variables.

I will look forward to your results with the Dragula... it is a MONSTER pipe that sounds absolutely wicked. I like the decal sound as much as the accel sound...

I had to fiddle with the main lambda table on the TTS to get rid of the decal popping. I richened up the 15% kPa column by 10% from 1750 to 3750 RPM, as the TTS Tuning Guide suggests. That seemed to do the trick, mostly. Still get the occasional pop, but I really don't want to enrichen it too much... maybe a bit more to eliminate the pop completely, or enrichen the 20% kPa column maybe 5% in the same RPM range. Sometimes I get a pop when I'm not completely off of the throttle.

Ken

[2006ULTRA]

"I will look forward to your results with the Dragula... it is a MONSTER pipe that sounds absolutely wicked. I like the decal sound as much as the accel sound... 2vrolijk_21"

That's what I'm hoping for!   What got me wanting a new pipe was when my brother in law put a boarzilla on his built 113"  His motor puts mine to shame but I'm hoping to get close to the sound he has.  I followed him for the first time about a month ago and at low speeds when he shifted his exhaust just snarled at me.   When I shifted I was embarrassed at how mine sounded.   I know sound is subjective but I couldn't get that sound of his bike out of my head so it's time to make a change.

I used to run a FatCat on my old bike so I wanted something different this time, I don't have enough motor for a boarzilla so I decided to go with a Dragula.  I haven't read one bad opinion of this pipe and it seems to be performing on a wide range of builds.

[2006ULTRA]

Guess what just showed up on the Fed Ex truck

Time to get to work.

[North Georgia Hawg]

Guess what just showed up on the Fed Ex truck

Time to get to work.

WHOO-HOO! I'll bet you're excited... I sure was! Good luck!

Ken

[2006ULTRA]

I just finished installing the pipe and love the sound!  Could be a tad louder for my taste but it had a real nice tone.  I went for a short ride and the bike feels like it's got more punch.  Won't know for sure until I put some miles on.  Gota put a different map in the thundermax and start riding to get it tuned.  So far I'm real pleased!

[2006ULTRA]

Even though it was 100 degrees here yesterday I went for a ride yesterday afternoon.  My bike definitely performs better everywhere.  My engine used to ping in the heat with my old pipes.  For some reason the pinging is gone   I used the same map in my Thundermax just reloaded it and cleared all the learned adjustments.

My throttle response is much better off idle than before which was one of my main goals.

As far as acceleration I think it pulls harder for sure.  My buddy has a custom chopper with a 100 revtech that runs pretty good.  Obviously it weighs nothing compared to my bike.  I could out run him before but barely.  We went from a 55 mph roll and I pulled him much better than before.

If your considering a new pipe take a look at the Dragos.  For the price you can't beat it.  If you're concerned about it being too loud at idle don't be. I wish it was louder but that's just me. It's also very quiet at highway speeds.  Probably quieter than my rhineharts.  It has some bark when you roll on the throttle but you can definately ride through your neighborhood and not upset the neighbors.

I'm still waiting for my ghost pipe to finish it off but so far I'm happy.  Frank is a good guy; a very busy guy but great to deal with.  He went out of his way to get me a pipe by this weekend.  I appreciate that!

[North Georgia Hawg]

Even though it was 100 degrees here yesterday I went for a ride yesterday afternoon.  My bike definitely performs better everywhere.  My engine used to ping in the heat with my old pipes.  For some reason the pinging is gone   I used the same map in my Thundermax just reloaded it and cleared all the learned adjustments.

My throttle response is much better off idle than before which was one of my main goals.

As far as acceleration I think it pulls harder for sure.  My buddy has a custom chopper with a 100 revtech that runs pretty good.  Obviously it weighs nothing compared to my bike.  I could out run him before but barely.  We went from a 55 mph roll and I pulled him much better than before.

If your considering a new pipe take a look at the Dragos.  For the price you can't beat it.  If you're concerned about it being too loud at idle don't be. I wish it was louder but that's just me. It's also very quiet at highway speeds.  Probably quieter than my rhineharts.  It has some bark when you roll on the throttle but you can definately ride through your neighborhood and not upset the neighbors.

I'm still waiting for my ghost pipe to finish it off but so far I'm happy.  Frank is a good guy; a very busy guy but great to deal with.  He went out of his way to get me a pipe by this weekend.  I appreciate that!

GOOD TO HEAR! I knew you'd love the Dragula. I like that fact that it has a nice, but not too loud, rumble. I can easily hear my tunes when I'm on the highway, and even when I really get on it, the sound is great, but not annoying. Well, to ME it's not annoying... can't speak for the poor folks riding behind me... I've been told it's pretty loud when I'm cranking it!

And Frank IS a great guy. I think his pipes are the best. I'm glad I have my Drago's S/C/S-4!

[barefoot3zk5]

ANNDDD... wait till ya hear em on a GREEN bike .. LOL
 how's it goin Ken ?? 

[North Georgia Hawg]

ANNDDD... wait till ya hear em on a GREEN bike .. LOL
 how's it goin Ken ?? 

Hey Howard. Are they EVEN LOUDER on a green and purple bike? 

I have a lot more stuff planned... but it's still a secret... don't tell anyone...