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[Nutdriverss]

I see in the new SE catalog they now offer a 1.5 quart over size oil pan for the touring bikes.  I was wondering if it's difficult to install?  I couldn't find the installation instructions on line.  It lists for $599, not too bad if it makes a noticeable difference in oil temps.

[Twolanerider]

I see in the new SE catalog they now offer a 1.5 quart over size oil pan for the touring bikes.  I was wondering if it's difficult to install?  I couldn't find the installation instructions on line.  It lists for $599, not too bad if it makes a noticeable difference in oil temps.

Oil pans are a serious chore to install.  The whole ass end of the bike below the fender has to come off.  And while it may take the system a little longer to get fully heat soaked on a hot day of any riding length full operating temperature will still be full operating temperature.

Harley saw Baker selling something and thought they could make a little extra coin.  As much as they fight heat in these engines and add oil coolers and now water cooling if something as simple as a larger oil pan would really have made a credible difference we'd have seen them on the bikes already.

[Thermodyne]

Save your money, and time.  If you're looking for some heat protection, put some fans on the oil cooler.  Actually you could force cool the oil cooler and the heads for a heck of a lot less than the price of that pan.  And since the oil cooler has a tstat built in, it would just bypass the cooler till the additional oil was well warmed up anyways.

[North Georgia Hawg]

It's a ripoff with no FACTS to support its claims and $599 price. OEMed from Baker, it looks like...

Ken

[grc]

There is absolutely NO DATA to support any claims of significant oil temperature reduction.  If there was such a significant difference, it would be very simple for Baker or H-D to provide documented and verifiable test results to prove the claims.  Try to find any such documentation.

Btw, what makes you think reducing your oil temps is necessary or even desirable?  The oil is supposed to run at a high enough temperature to drive off fuel and water contamination, and the normal operating temps are part of the equation when determining the proper viscosity and rating for an engine design.  Way too much BS is floating around concerning high oil temps.  It kind of reminds me of all the BS back in the day about water temps in auto engines as the auto makers increased the thermostat settings and started running the engines hotter on purpose.  All the shadetree geniuses threw away the 200° thermostats and substituted 160 to 180° parts, or better yet just removed the thermostats altogether, which actually screwed up the engines.

Jerry

[HD Street Performance]

I agree with you completely.
Oxidation doubles for every 18° rise in temperature above 165°F.
Oxidation is the prime element of oil breakdown. We use very high quality oils in these motors, for the most part, (CJ-4 API or better) and temperatures of 250°-275° are not going to affect engine life as long as normal oil change intervals are observed. Assumptions are proper tune, no contamination, no parts failures, and proper air filtration.
If someone wanted definitive data they can always have their oil lab tested. Stavely and Blackstone provide that service as do most Caterpillar dealers.

[napalm]

Page 464 in the 2014 HD Parts & Accessory Catalog lists a High Capacity Oil Pan - Keep your Engine running cooler....what is everyone's thoughts on this new part?  P/N 24400099 $599.95    Increases oil capacity by 1.5 quarts     

napalm

[grc]

Page 464 in the 2014 HD Parts & Accessory Catalog lists a High Capacity Oil Pan - Keep your Engine running cooler....what is everyone's thoughts on this new part?  P/N 24400099 $599.95    Increases oil capacity by 1.5 quarts     

napalm

See the posts prior to yours in this thread.  Unless you just want to throw $600 away, I'd suggest you forget this oil pan.  If you really want to control your oil temps better, get a good ten row cooler with a fan.  Jagg sells one, there may be others as well.

Jerry

[North Georgia Hawg]

Marketing...

Ken

[DCFIREMANN]

Oil pans are a serious chore to install.  The whole ass end of the bike below the fender has to come off.  And while it may take the system a little longer to get fully heat soaked on a hot day of any riding length full operating temperature will still be full operating temperature.

Harley saw Baker selling something and thought they could make a little extra coin.  As much as they fight heat in these engines and add oil coolers and now water cooling if something as simple as a larger oil pan would really have made a credible difference we'd have seen them on the bikes already.

Don on the early (pre 2009) touring frames the rear tire has to be removed to remove the oil pan. On the new frames I was looking, at Saphire the other on day the lift and it looks like just the left side of the exhaust and cross member needs to be removed. I have not tried to remove one as of yet, but it looks a lot easier that the early frames.

No I am considering the new pan!!!! Unless they will powder coat it SAPHIRE!!!!!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[prodrag1320]

your better off with a good cooler,600.00 is way too high for a oil pan

[TorqueInc]

  Oil is just as much a coolant as it is a lubricant.

You spend upwards of a couple grand to replace the air cleaner,exhaust system and install a cam to increase power,reduce operating temp as well as if done right increase mileage over stock.

  The next step ?  Might just be the only cooling system a Harley had(until the recent steamin beagle upgrade  ) other than air.

I am not sure that between 1/2 and 1.5 quarts of oil added to a Harley by itself reguardless of the oil pan design is a good thing without adding increased cooling capability in an oil cooler.

  What I don't see as anything but a good thing is 1/2 to 1.5 quarts of cooler oil circulating thru a big twin engine.

 Jagg/Setrab makes some of the best oil coolers out there,more surface area etc etc....the stock oil cooler on the touring bikes has about 3-4 ounces of oil...a 6 row Jagg has 6-8 ounces and a ten row has a tick over 10 ounces and they

work very well.

   Money aside I think that the combination of a larger capacity pan and a better oil cooler is a great upgrade.

[HD Street Performance]

your better off with a good cooler,600.00 is way too high for a oil pan

+1
More oil without added BTU elimination, heat exchanger capacity, just takes longer to get just as hot. It is possible the + oil pans have better heat rejection capacity.
The motor build and tune have a lot to do with the heat generated to begin with.

[Rooster]

I was thinking the newer Jagg is a 10 row cooler and made with more passages and you can get it with a fan now.

[WestCoastRuss]

I was thinking the newer Jagg is a 10 row cooler and made with more passages and you can get it with a fan now.

 

[sadunbar]

I was thinking the newer Jagg is a 10 row cooler and made with more passages and you can get it with a fan now.

Yep...I've been running a 10 row Jagg cooler for a couple years and I added a Jagg thermostat controlled fan this spring.

The change from the stock CVO oil cooler to the Jagg 10 row cooler dropped my highway oil temperatures by approx. 20 degrees.  The addition of the fan had no effect on my highway oil temperatures, but did reduce my "town" oil temperatures by 10/20 degrees, depending on how long I was at "town" speeds.  Jagg will tell you the addition of a fan only provides additional oil cooling at speeds of 30 mph or less.  My experience indicates this is a true statement...  The addition of the Jagg fan did not effect my highway oil temperatures at all, either positively or negatively (by reducing flow thru the cooler, which was an initial concern I had about adding the fan). 

[Dan_Lockwood]

If you want to add cooling to a larger capacity oil pan, this is the only way to do it.





This oil pan sells for $119.95 and fits a Chrysler 727 Torqueflight and is stamped steel, not cast or billet aluminum.

I think bikers get ripped off on their parts compared to cars.

I would think that if Derale made one for the Twin Cam that there would be as large of market potential as with the 727 Torqueflight.  Granted, there are tons more 727's out there than the MOCO's Twin Cams, but I believe that a higher percentage of TC owners would buy over 727 owners, especially at $120 price point.

But if the added cooling air tubes could be incorporated into the 1.5+ pan, it would be much more worth the dollars and effort.  At that point with cooler oil the bike would run cooler.

[TinSpinner]

Wonder how well all those weld joints would hold up with all the shaking going on in a Twin Cam? Torqueflights don't vibrate much.

[TorqueInc]

a stamped steel pan with tubes thru it....I doubt anyone would buy into that one

[RayG]

I can only respond to my own findings. When I purchased my 08 SERK I was bothered with the amount of heat we all pretty much experienced and the occasional high speed bike wobble when going into a sweeper pretty hard.  I had the opportunity to talk to the folks @ True Track & they offered me a super discount for the Baker +1 oil pan along with the True Track that mounted to the threaded boss on the pan itself.  The True Track worked great, along with a full compliment of Traxxion products for the front & rear.  The amount of heat was still there.  My bike used to get so hot I have burn spots on the painted frame when the RHTD were removed.  I realize a better exhaust & tune like Steve offers would have been a better choice overall but I was not aware of his offerings until it was to late.  With all that said I would not recommend spending the money on the extra capacity oil pan but I do agree with the other methods such as a Jagg oil cooler.  If I built motors for a living I can understand their reasoning for the additional capacity, which should already be on the bike from the factory.  The extra capacity is nice to have but I just don't see it as assisting the cooling process.  Seriously I would go with a high performance oil cooler and possibly a fan unit of some kind if it makes you feel better.   

[RedMoon]

New Harley Screamin’ Eagle High Capacity Oil Pan Holds More Lube. Keeps It Cooler.
http://cyrilhuzeblog.com/2013/11/16/new-harley-davidson-screamin-eagle-high-capacity-oil-pan-holds-more-lube-keeps-it-cooler/

[2k]

More oil is a great thing. However, if you are thinking about doing this for greatly reduced oil temps you WILL be disappointed. A friend of mine has a Baker and it didn't lower but 2 to 3 deg, barely enough to see on gauge. That being said, more oil is a good thing.

[mark]

Notice what the description didn't say - HD makes the claim that oil temp will be lowered, but doesn't state by how much (i.e., 10%, 15 degrees...give me something to justify the cost). Before spending $600 plus labor, I'd want to know if this would make a noticeable difference.

[grc]

Notice what the description didn't say - HD makes the claim that oil temp will be lowered, but doesn't state by how much (i.e., 10%, 15 degrees...give me something to justify the cost). Before spending $600 plus labor, I'd want to know if this would make a noticeable difference.

It's the new normal in advertising, no facts and a lot of meaningless smoke.  Trust me, if you want to significantly cool the oil this isn't the way to do it.  It would be wiser to spend the money on a high quality ten row oil cooler with thermostatically controlled fans if you want to make a significant difference.  And then you need to think about why you believe you need to cool the oil that much anyway.  Have you suffered any failures caused by overly hot oil?  Do you plan to extend your oil changes to 10k or 20k miles, or do you plan to stick to the 3k to 5k almost all Harley riders use? 

This product is like so many others being hawked to the Harley crowd, overpriced and of little to no real benefit.

Jerry

[2k]

Didn't read the whole mis-advertisement the 1st time, cause I knew it was a waste. The damn thing is marketed by the MoCo!!! If it was a needed benefit, WTH don't they install them from the factory.     

[porthole]

Part of the American way - take someone else s idea, copy and market as your own.
Oh - I said that already .....

The claim to lower temps is BS. Sure, it will keep the temps lower until it warms up. Once at op temp it will be the same.

A waste of money for that feature, but if increasing the oil capacity is your gain, that's different.
I did the Baker oil pan for the additional quart of oil. Got it for a really good price at the time too.
The 20% oil capacity increase is good for the engine. Wish it was that easy to add 20% to my F-350

I have noticed that with the Baker pan, once shut off the oil cools down much quicker, that pan is a big heat sink.

Buy the Baker instead, besides, their customer service is way better then the MoCo's

[Steve Cole]

The idea of more oil is a good thing as you spread the load being placed on the oil over a larger volume. Since your doing that it's going to take longer to heat up, which by the way, also means it's going to take longer to cool down as well. The only way to really reduce the oil temperature is to expose the oil to a cooler surface to remove the heat from the oil. How you go about that is up to you.

[Twolanerider]

Drain plug is on the side of this pan.  Wonder if it even has the extra hole that many use for the oil temp gauge sending unit up front?

[Midnight Rider]

Drain plug is on the side of this pan.  Wonder if it even has the extra hole that many use for the oil temp gauge sending unit up front?

Next to the dead cat...

[CVO2FIXUP]

 Have the Baker 1.5 pan and the Ultra Cool oil cooler.  Was stuck in traffic the other day to a point that the rear cylinder cut out due to the heat. Fans were on, checked the temp gauge on the dip stick, it read 230 and the bike did not seem to be burning up.  Also, used to run the bike 1/2 to 3/4 of a quart low to stop the air filter oil infiltration. So, that's less than 4 quart's to make that happen.  Now I dump 5 quarts of juice in to her, and call it a day.  And, for the $$ it looks very cool when you are lying on your back, not drunk, under the bike. 

[CVO2FIXUP]

 Ultra Cool.

[Motor-LE]

I would think the extra oil capacity would delay peak oil temp.  Should help delay and slow the rise to the peak oil temp.   But it would also hold oil temp a bit longer as it will take some time to cool it down as well.

The heat sink design and fins would offer slight extra cooling ability.  So this combined with the above would be helpful for those who ride in parades, thick traffic, or so police motor work.

[skratch]

Part of the American way - take someone else s idea, copy and market as your own.
Oh - I said that already .....

Buy the Baker instead, besides, their customer service is way better then the MoCo's

you aren't the only one to say it, and there's a lot of comments on the cyril huze blog saying the same thing, but seriously, has anyone stopped to think that maybe baker makes this for the moco?  instead of being a 'blatant rip-off', it could be a royalty producing item.....

[Para Bellum]

New Harley Screamin’ Eagle High Capacity Oil Pan Holds More Lube. Keeps It Cooler.
http://cyrilhuzeblog.com/2013/11/16/new-harley-davidson-screamin-eagle-high-capacity-oil-pan-holds-more-lube-keeps-it-cooler/

Just like most of the car and bike magazines, this is just an advertisement for the product that's been camouflaged to look like cyril huze evaluated it.  They didn't.

[dayne66]

Same as shocks...and head lights.....and brake lights.....and exhaust....and windshields....The MOCO shoulda built them right at the factory....so...I'm NOT gonna buy a second component from the MOCO. So long as the aftermarket is as good as or better than the HD 'improved' part...I'll go aftermarket every time!

[tdkkart]

Same as shocks...and head lights.....and brake lights.....and exhaust....and windshields....The MOCO shoulda built them right at the factory....so...I'm gonna buy a second component from the MOCO. So long as the aftermarket is as good as or better than the HD 'improved' part...I'll go aftermarket every time!

BINGO!!!

 As for the oil pan, as someone else said, it will likely delay the peak temperature, but probably not reduce it.
It will show great results to those people who ride within a 30 mile radius of home though.

   IMO, it's a solution looking for a problem. There's literally hundreds of thousands of these bikes out there being ridden in all kinds of crazy traffic, weather extremes etc, by owners that are totally oblivious to the supposed "problems" that these bikes have, yet when was the last time you saw them lined up on the shoulders of the roads and back rooms of dealerships with dead engines?? If it was really as a big an issue as many of the fear mongers would like to make you think(notice how many of them have parts to sell you), we'd damn sure be hearing about it. 

[Motor-LE]

^ try slow rolling behind a group of foot marchers for about an hour in the southeast summer.  The bike cooks!  We had one shut down. Two others were so hot they after shutting down it took over 20 minutes to cool down enough to start.  The engine was so hot it was seized up so tight it would not spin overs.

Next week we start a 200 mile detail.  20 miles per day at a walking pace.  So heat will be an issue.

[tdkkart]

^ try slow rolling behind a group of foot marchers for about an hour in the southeast summer.  The bike cooks!  We had one shut down. Two others were so hot they after shutting down it took over 20 minutes to cool down enough to start.  The engine was so hot it was seized up so tight it would not spin overs.
Next week we start a 200 mile detail.  20 miles per day at a walking pace.  So heat will be an issue.

And then there are those that can't figure out why air cooled vehicles and parades don't mix...........

[grc]

^ try slow rolling behind a group of foot marchers for about an hour in the southeast summer.  The bike cooks!  We had one shut down. Two others were so hot they after shutting down it took over 20 minutes to cool down enough to start.  The engine was so hot it was seized up so tight it would not spin overs.

Next week we start a 200 mile detail.  20 miles per day at a walking pace.  So heat will be an issue.

Perhaps that is why some law enforcement agencies around the country have bought other brands of bikes in recent years.  If anyone is going to use a late model emission regulated Harley for extended walking speed operation, they need to spend the coin for cooling fans, both for the heads and for an oil cooler.  Thinking you can take a stock setup and submit it to walking pace parade duty in summer heat without repercussions is naïve at best.

Jerry

[Motor-LE]

And then there are those that can't figure out why air cooled vehicles and parades don't mix...........

They ones that make the purchases don't ask the ones that ride. 

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

Ultra Cool.

There is the true answer to taming the engine heat, along with a good tune.
Fan assisted Ultra Cooler.
Scott

[nytryder]

A set of Wards fans will solve any heating problem you have. Larger oil pans and oil coolers will help some but does not address the main problem. Cylinder head temps. The fans cool the top end and solve over heating issues.

[Para Bellum]

A set of Wards fans will solve any heating problem you have. Larger oil pans and oil coolers will help some but does not address the main problem. Cylinder head temps. The fans cool the top end and solve over heating issues.

For bikes with an oil cooler, the parade problem is lack of airflow through the cooler.  You can solve the problem of slow speed overheating by putting fans on the oil cooler.  I have both head fans and oil cooler fans.

[hotroadking]

Saw this new fan introduced at biketoberfest





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