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[grofcvo]

We have done a ton of testing on the 110. ( as we make a cam and wanted to test it step by step for our own kits)   But in a nutshell here is how it breaks down I am working off AVG numbers so please no one get there panties in a wad.

Stage I    Exhaust and air cleaner and tune   95/108 

Stage II  one of several bolt in cams            108/116

Stage III increased compression                  113/123

Stage IIII  larger t/b                                   120/123

Head porting will yield more but that opens a whole new door numbers above are from stock heads.  Who ported the head , did they do it correctly or turn the heads into a door stop.   Making 120/120 as a simple bolt on kit is nothing short of a great running set up. 

thanks for this stages explanations  ,I would be happy with stage III , for this combo what would be best exhaust, cams, and pistons (anything else beside dyno tuning ...) I can't afford to do everything at once so I have to make decision and buy one by one thing and than do final changes.
 

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

Your email bounces however I have a customer that we just completed a 110 kit that makes the 113/123 range and he loves it however,, long winter and bored so we are in the process of building him a 124.. SO the parts he has have 4000 miles or so and would be for sale give us a ring. Be happy to put you in direct touch with him and you two can work that out.


682-647-1141

[Steve Cole]

Hi Steve,
Someone will do this for me (RC Cycles ) I am just exploring all options and searching what would be best bang for buck. What do you mean by mix and match.

What I mean is getting on the internet and buy parts from several different sources and then take them to someone to install it all. When you do not get what you think you should, who's at fault? Needless to say it happens and the customer feels they got screwed, the installer feels like he got screwed and everyone bitches. Then you go spend more money to try and get what you wanted in the first place. Now you've spent much more than if you had just paid a little more up front with one source to deal with. If you look at a combination of parts try and find several dyno charts for just those parts from several installs. If they have one chart at 120/120 and all the others are 100/100 you should know which ones are real!

Take your time and work with whom you are going to work with to get the job done, then if things are not what you want you have only one source to deal with and it makes it pretty cut and dry. Look for average numbers not the one off BS numbers that you can find on the internet at times. GMR has given you his combinations with straight answers, you can find more from others too but just talk with people upfront to save yourself a lot of time and trouble in the long run.

[prodrag1320]

im thinking he means,same as us (or any decent shop) that he`s got proven builds,but will mix other parts to get your build  to YOUR riding style

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

I added the parts deal as he brought up the budget thing.. You always spend more on the step by step deal as the tuning costs add up.

[landar]

Keep us posted on your selection.  I too am doing my homework before jumping in and not getting what I thought I was would be.  Right now I'm leaning a a good stage one... Not sure I want to spend for tuning each time I do something to the engine though.

[grofcvo]

Keep us posted on your selection.  I too am doing my homework before jumping in and not getting what I thought I was would be.  Right now I'm leaning a a good stage one... Not sure I want to spend for tuning each time I do something to the engine though.

same here Landar, I wanna make just one time job and be done. It is time consuming do all this reading and searching asking people but at the end will be worth your time.

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

Keep us posted on your selection.  I too am doing my homework before jumping in and not getting what I thought I was would be.  Right now I'm leaning a a good stage one... Not sure I want to spend for tuning each time I do something to the engine though.

Plenty of sheets to get a idea of what you will get with the stock cam. One thing that I am not thrilled about with the stock cam is the heat that the stock cam will create.. Having tested our own cam against the 255 cam with stage I set up. Nothing lost down low and more power across the curve and reduced heat and increased power in the upper rpm range.. Now Other cams can offer the same type of power. Being that we designed this cam and have it made we are going to keep on testing it vs others, I think most  would understand that    The 255 is and always will be a EPA cam. You are not going to change what it is.

I feel the best thing you can do is drop the stock cam install a better one and a good ex with tune. For most that is all that is needed. Good luck

[grofcvo]

Plenty of sheets to get a idea of what you will get with the stock cam. One thing that I am not thrilled about with the stock cam is the heat that the stock cam will create.. Having tested our own cam against the 255 cam with stage I set up. Nothing lost down low and more power across the curve and reduced heat and increased power in the upper rpm range.. Now Other cams can offer the same type of power. Being that we designed this cam and have it made we are going to keep on testing it vs others, I think most  would understand that    The 255 is and always will be a EPA cam. You are not going to change what it is.

I feel the best thing you can do is drop the stock cam install a better one and a good ex with tune. For most that is all that is needed. Good luck

Did a search for genesis 577 cams could't figure out who makes this cams,( saw you used it at dyno sheet posted above). I like the left side of the torque curve ,want to go with it and have to talk to Frank about exhaust for my RK. Also is it possible to bump compression up in any other way or  I have to change pistons.. tnx

[Unbalanced]

the 3 most common ways to bump up compression

1. Pistons is one way
2.  Smaller (Thinner) Head Gasket
     From the factory on the 110's you will see anywhere from a .04x to .05x thickness head gasket.   To get a thinner head gasket you can go to the after market with say Cometic you can get .030 or .040 thick head gasket.  Mother Harley also offers a thinner SE head gasket I think they are around .045 never used them have always stuck with Cometic.   On some builds you will have a flat base gasket which you can also play with, not the case with the 110 they are a O ring.
3. Decking the heads is yet another.  

Typically I end up using a combination of head gasket trying to get a better squish and decking the heads together due to the large chambers the 110 heads have 94-96 cc typically.   I usually shoot for .030-.037 squish and try and stay under 194 cold cranking compression ideal for me would be about 185.

The higher the compression generally means less durability and the possibility of PMS from the motor.  

Good luck with your build.

[grofcvo]

the 3 most common ways to bump up compression

1. Pistons is one way
2.  Smaller (Thinner) Head Gasket
     From the factory on the 110's you will see anywhere from a .04x to .05x thickness head gasket.   To get a thinner head gasket you can go to the after market with say Cometic you can get .030 or .040 thick head gasket.  Mother Harley also offers a thinner SE head gasket I think they are around .045 never used them have always stuck with Cometic.   On some builds you will have a flat base gasket which you can also play with, not the case with the 110 they are a O ring.
3. Decking the heads is yet another.  

Typically I end up using a combination of head gasket trying to get a better squish and decking the heads together due to the large chambers the 110 heads have 94-96 cc typically.   I usually shoot for .030-.037 squish and try and stay under 194 cold cranking compression ideal for me would be about 185.

The higher the compression generally means less durability and the possibility of PMS from the motor.  

Good luck with your build.

tnx unbalanced, so let say if I go with cometic .30 gasket that will give me little bit of compression and it will result in little bit of gain in HP/TQ and still engine will be solid . Also do you know who makes this genesis 577 cams?

[shelby500]

tnx unbalanced, so let say if I go with cometic .30 gasket that will give me little bit of compression and it will result in little bit of gain in HP/TQ and still engine will be solid . Also do you know who makes this genesis 577 cams?

GMR Performance

[Unbalanced]

tnx unbalanced, so let say if I go with cometic .30 gasket that will give me little bit of compression and it will result in little bit of gain in HP/TQ and still engine will be solid . Also do you know who makes this genesis 577 cams?

GMR Performance makes the Genesis 577 cams.   

The extra compression should help give you a bit more, but it might not change anything it really depends on your heads and the flows and the cam / pipe combination you choose.   If all the components were in line with each other than yes adding a lil extra compression should help your build provided you aren't going over the top and adding PMS.

I would shoot for 185 cold cranking compression with the 577 cams

Here is the thing if you are going to pop the heads off to do a head gasket, then dont cheap out do the headwork / clean up work / springs / valves.   John Sach's does all my stuff and you won't find a better guy to do it there are others who do great work as well like WFO Larry, Bob Wright, Mega-Flow.

[grofcvo]

GMR Performance makes the Genesis 577 cams.   

The extra compression should help give you a bit more, but it might not change anything it really depends on your heads and the flows and the cam / pipe combination you choose.   If all the components were in line with each other than yes adding a lil extra compression should help your build provided you aren't going over the top and adding PMS.

I would shoot for 185 cold cranking compression with the 577 cams

Here is the thing if you are going to pop the heads off to do a head gasket, then dont cheap out do the headwork / clean up work / springs / valves.   John Sach's does all my stuff and you won't find a better guy to do it there are others who do great work as well like WFO Larry, Bob Wright, Mega-Flow.

tnx man, I just ordered dragos dragula 2:1 with 2.55 baffle and I thought to go with genesis 577 like a lot left side of the torque line , will see how  much goes for head work. But for now i spend already a lot of dough. Hope this is good combo for decent ph/tq.

[Unbalanced]

You will have to ask Steve @GMR what the optimal range is for that cam and where it will perform its best.   My guess is you will be a little light on compression to start, but ok, but once the cycle fund is built back up you will be easily able to do the headwork and set the squish with a smaller headgasket and have a real ripper.   I would just look at it as a 2 stage build.

Again good luck.