Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[bjspearman04]

Just sharing.  Got my spanking new CVO Ultra Classic Electra Glide April 2013 in stardust silver, titanium...mint!  Put 20k miles on her in less than a year.  Got oil changed every 2500 miles (on time).  Riding to work early March...my (bree) sounded like a choir of chirping crickets.  Ah, hell nah!  Took her in for the 20k maintenance.  Described the problem.  Found out the issue was big...Couple days later, the shop supervisor said he coordinated with Harley to replace engine.  Fluke - I suspect.  But got to restart clock on next 20k miles.  No cost!

[hdaliaconis]

Do you know what the problem was?  I also have a 2013 CVO Ultra 8K miles.  Would be nice to know if it was an isolated issue of a common problem.

[deldago]

Shot in the dark, lifters?

[CVO2FIXUP]

 Like a Bic lighter. A bike with a disposable engine. What a joke. Its the engine that we buy Harley for and its the heart that craps out. What a f'n joke.

[Twolanerider]

  Fluke - I suspect.

Unfortunately not....  Glad you got it sorted though.

[ultrafxr]

Like a Bic lighter. A bike with a disposable engine. What a joke. Its the engine that we buy Harley for and its the heart that craps out. What a f'n joke.

Unfortunately the joke is on us.   

[bjspearman04]

Gents -

"What caused the problem?" Short answer:  The varsity technician at my local Harley shop in Virginia Beach, VA, nor the team at Harley could not figure out or isolate the problem.  Best answer:  "something got lose in the engine and caused some scoring of sorts".  Again, did not care for the answer, but was appreciative of Harley replacing my engine and getting me back on the road again.  Now my full sac header, 4" CVO baffle and screamin eagle tuner bark again.  Got to say, it's a lot of dollars to spend for a "choir of chirping crickets" which made me sick to hear.






































































































sort of guy, so I don't repeat the situation.  The "varsity"

[grc]

Gents -

"What caused the problem?" Short answer:  The varsity technician at my local Harley shop in Virginia Beach, VA, nor the team at Harley could not figure out or isolate the problem.  Best answer:  "something got lose in the engine and caused some scoring of sorts".  Again, did not care for the answer, but was appreciative of Harley replacing my engine and getting me back on the road again.  Now my full sac header, 4" CVO baffle and screamin eagle tuner bark again.  Got to say, it's a lot of dollars to spend for a "choir of chirping crickets" which made me sick to hear.

I don't know what a "varsity" technician is, unless you mean he's still in high school, but rest assured someone at H-D knows what happened.  They just don't want to share the information, since people tend to spread such information and it's not the best advertising for the low quality folks in Milwaukee.  Fortunately they didn't try to jerk you around and just replaced the engine without a fight and long wait. 

Jerry

[FlaHeatWave]

Sadly, it's not a fluke with the 110s... (I'm bettin' its crank or lifters)

'Glad they got you back on the road with what sounds like minimum hassle.

The '13 Silver/Titanium combo is one of my favorites

[hdaliaconis]

I don't know what a "varsity" technician is, unless you mean he's still in high school, but rest assured someone at H-D knows what happened.  They just don't want to share the information, since people tend to spread such information and it's not the best advertising for the low quality folks in Milwaukee.  Fortunately they didn't try to jerk you around and just replaced the engine without a fight and long wait. 

Jerry

 

I agree. There is no magic to tearing an engine down to determine what caused it to fail.  They know and if it were mine I would want a detailed answer. 

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

Man,
These CVO 110"ers sure do have a history of on-going issues...
Scott

[prodrag1320]

nothing would surprise me about mechanics who work at HD dealers

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

Back to the same question  did the remove oil pan and clean & inspect for any metal / aluminum/ brass etc   This seems to be the Achilles's heel with HD.  They for some reason do not want to look in the pan. So your new engine is chit again my friend if there is metal in the pan that was not cleaned.   

[hdaliaconis]

Man,
These CVO 110"ers sure do have a history of on-going issues...
Scott

Just wondering.... How many total 110 ci engines have been produced/sold relative to how many have had these catastrophic failures?  Would be nice if I knew if it is a forgone issue that any or all 110 engines will suffer a failure sooner or later and what should us 110 owners could/should do to avert the inevitable?   Just wondering.   

[bjspearman04]

I am in agreement on having the numbers...You can plan for the worst case.  I still have an  pit in my an uneasy feeling in stomach as to if and when my new 110 engine will fail.  Don't me wrong - I am all in HD.  Just want a solid solution for what "we" paid or are paying for...

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

I am in agreement on having the numbers...You can plan for the worst case.  I still have an  pit in my an uneasy feeling in stomach as to if and when my new 110 engine will fail.  Don't me wrong - I am all in HD.  Just want a solid solution for what "we" paid or are paying for...

Swap the cams and lifters tune the bike and that will prevent many of the issues that you happen. Valve guide piston issues are all about heat, the cam and tune will correct that lifters well no big deal.  Cam, lifters, quick install push-rods all the gaskets and inner bearings  are $750 approx and a tune you are 1200 invested. But you would know that the problem has been taken care of.  Beyond that I would not be worried as the money to run down crank is over the top.   

You get a cooler running bike that makes more power and has no valve train noise

[bjspearman04]

Thanks for the information.  Truly appreciate the come back.    Will follow the recommendation once the two year warranty is up. 

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

Well swapping lifters is not going to void the warranty. And you can wait and see how the sage plays out from your local dealer. Read a few posts here from guys that lost the engine on trips and dealing with the new engine time off the bike

[Skipper]

Thanks for the information.  Truly appreciate the come back.    Will follow the recommendation once the two year warranty is up.

Put the date on calendar!!! Mine was destroyed by lifter two weeks after warranty was up. No new engine. Just new cam chest as good will. What a shame. Kick out 110" POS, and put S&S 124"!

Skipper

[hdaliaconis]

 

I am in agreement on having the numbers...You can plan for the worst case.  I still have an  pit in my an uneasy feeling in stomach as to if and when my new 110 engine will fail.  Don't me wrong - I am all in HD.  Just want a solid solution for what "we" paid or are paying for...

[hdguy1]

I wish I could get that much satisfaction. I'm here at the Laughlin River Run with my Softail instead of my SESG. A cylinder stud pulled out a few days before we left for here and am still waiting to see what will happen. It only has 28,000 km on it in total. It was rebuilt at 8,000 km and had the crank replaced.  Harley sent a warranty inspector to the dealer ship to look at it. Dealer says it looks like all but the crank will be replaced. Could be 6 to 8 weeks. Arggggggggg!

I will be making a call to Harley when I know exactly what is happening. This bike has been one big heart break.

[hdaliaconis]

Once again, do all the 110's fail?  What is the ratio of failures to motors produced?  Not sure that the solution is to automatically swap out the lifters and cams if all is well.  JMO

[Beak Boater]

I got 2 110's, 2010 CVO ultra with 16000 miles, and a 2010 CVO Street Glide with 32000 miles both have no cats, exhaust changes, the Street Glide has aftermarket cams and tuned by Doc's Performance. I just change the fluids and ride. Never had a problem, so the answer to your question is NO not all, just most of the ones on the internet.

[sadunbar]

Once again, do all the 110's fail?  What is the ratio of failures to motors produced?  Not sure that the solution is to automatically swap out the lifters and cams if all is well.  JMO

Of course, all 110's don't fail, but some, or some would say, many 110's do fail.  The trick is in knowing which 110's will fail, to which there is no definitive answer.  So it comes down to whether you feel lucky, or confident, that your particular 110 will fail or will not fail.  And then it becomes a personal decision as to whether it's a good investment (as with insurance) to proactively swap out your lifters - or not.  Personally, I chose to use our frigid winters to inspect my cam chest and then decide what, if any, preventative maintenance is necessary.  That said, without fail, I change lifters every 10,000 miles.  Given that most of my riding consists of multi thousand mile trips, I consider this a mind soothing investment.  Others with different riding habits, or more confidence in the MOCO's product than I, may be perfectly comfortable to leave things alone while all is well... 

[grc]

I love the "wise" comments from some folks about how the only bad Harley's are the ones you hear about on the internet forums.  I'm sure the same is true about those defective ignition switches over at GM; it's really just a tiny percentage being blown out of proportion by those grieving family members running their mouths on the TV news shows.  There is absolutely nothing for those other millions of folks with the same switch to worry about, right?  To paraphrase the title of a fine Bobby McFerrin song, "don't worry, be a mushroom".

No, not every 110 has failed.  Not every Yugo fell apart either, but the percentage was more than a tad higher than for other brands.  It doesn't require a 100% failure rate for discerning individuals to declare a product to be flawed and substandard.  If you trust the MoCo to never sell chit, and to always do the right thing, then by all means don't take any precautions.  Tell them to keep their factory warranty, you're sure you won't need it.  Forget the ESP as well, why waste money buying repair insurance for a perfect product?  Don't spend a few hundred bucks to replace a part that even Harley has chosen to replace in production on the 2013 and 2014 models.  I'm sure the same folks at Harley who cheapened every other part of the bikes in recent years just decided to spend more on lifters for the hell of it, and not because the failures were costing them big bucks in warranty expense.

ANY major engine failure is unacceptable, and even if you only count the failures we have heard about on this one forum the percentage is unacceptable.  Period.  If you don't want to take the issue seriously, then don't.  It's no skin off the noses of those of us who have recommended people take action to protect themselves.  We aren't trying to sell anything, most of us aren't even in the business of selling parts or services.  If you don't want our advice, then feel free to ignore it.  Trust me, it won't hurt my feelings if you blow off any advice I may offer.  I don't have a crystal ball, and I can't say your particular bike is destined to fail.  Of course the opposite is also true, you don't have a crystal ball and you have no clue if your Harley is going to fail tomorrow, next month, next year, or maybe never. 

Jerry 

[Rooster]

Not every 110 motor will scissor the flywheels. Thankfully the aftermarket has come to our rescue with stuff like welded wheels and Timken bearing conversions, and many other things. I don't think many would put up with the stuff we all have without the aftermarket to go to as the Moco doesn't care about giving us a strong enough platform to start with. one would think the Moco would offer the same service but that would be admitting their failures so as to why that has never happened.

[FlaHeatWave]

'Owning (6) Harleys since '76, my (only) 110 has failed 2x in 22k, the other 5 have given much better service. (didn't see any of that on the net...)

[FlaHeatWave]

Put the date on calendar!!! Mine was destroyed by lifter two weeks after warranty was up. No new engine. Just new cam chest as good will. What a shame. Kick out 110" POS, and put S&S 124"!

Skipper

S&S 124

[Rooster]

 

Seems to be one of the best answers. To bad we can't just order the bike without the motor then put in what you want and reliability goes way up. Pretty sad but most keep going back hoping for the good one.

[grc]

Seems to be one of the best answers. To bad we can't just order the bike without the motor then put in what you want and reliability goes way up. Pretty sad but most keep going back hoping for the good one.

Have you ever heard the one about doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?  That's what I think about when I read comments from some people who have had several Harley's that had significant problems, got less than stellar customer service from the MoCo, and then went right back and bought another one.

The single thing that helps Harley's reliability statistics is the fact that so many people bought, and still buy, Harley's just to be part of the crowd and then park them, only bringing them out a few times a year for the "let's meet at the bar and show off our ride" events.  Those folks often don't put enough miles on a bike to experience many of the failures the more serious riders experience.

I like the idea of selling the bike without the powertrain and letting the customer supply their own engine and trans.  Or at least offering the customer the option of several different choices from the factory, kind of like the heavy truck industry where you can choose engines, transmissions, and axles when you order your truck.  I wonder how many knowledgeable people would opt for the Harley engine and trans if they could order the bike with an S&S engine and Baker trans straight from the factory?

Jerry

[Jswerve]

Have you ever heard the one about doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?  That's what I think about when I read comments from some people who have had several Harley's that had significant problems, got less than stellar customer service from the MoCo, and then went right back and bought another one.

The single thing that helps Harley's reliability statistics is the fact that so many people bought, and still buy, Harley's just to be part of the crowd and then park them, only bringing them out a few times a year for the "let's meet at the bar and show off our ride" events.  Those folks often don't put enough miles on a bike to experience many of the failures the more serious riders experience.

I like the idea of selling the bike without the powertrain and letting the customer supply their own engine and trans.  Or at least offering the customer the option of several different choices from the factory, kind of like the heavy truck industry where you can choose engines, transmissions, and axles when you order your truck.  I wonder how many knowledgeable people would opt for the Harley engine and trans if they could order the bike with an S&S engine and Baker trans straight from the factory?

Jerry

Very well said Jerry. My boss drives me nuts. He has a 2007 Street glide with a built 95" motor that he hauls everywhere on a trailer. He's getting about 500 miles a year on it Lmao. Last year he pulled it to Pennsylvania to ride with a buddy and it blew up on him mid ride. Ridiculous.

Jesse

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk

[Steve Cole]

I wonder how many S&S engines or Baker 7 speeds would fail and be reported on the internet if they were building 150K of them a year? While I do think that HD could do a better job with the 110, I do believe that there are far to many people that are very happy with the bikes that never come to the internet. That's what keeps people coming back. Let's face it if HD didn't do what they do, many of the aftermarket companies like S&S and Baker would not have any business and that includes my job as well.

[hdaliaconis]

Have you ever heard the one about doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?  That's what I think about when I read comments from some people who have had several Harley's that had significant problems, got less than stellar customer service from the MoCo, and then went right back and bought another one.

The single thing that helps Harley's reliability statistics is the fact that so many people bought, and still buy, Harley's just to be part of the crowd and then park them, only bringing them out a few times a year for the "let's meet at the bar and show off our ride" events.  Those folks often don't put enough miles on a bike to experience many of the failures the more serious riders experience.

I like the idea of selling the bike without the powertrain and letting the customer supply their own engine and trans.  Or at least offering the customer the option of several different choices from the factory, kind of like the heavy truck industry where you can choose engines, transmissions, and axles when you order your truck.  I wonder how many knowledgeable people would opt for the Harley engine and trans if they could order the bike with an S&S engine and Baker trans straight from the factory?

Jerry

Based on all the mods I see after a "factory custom" is purchased, I would venture a guess that a lot would take that option.  Sounds like a business opportunity to me. 

Starting back with my old '50 panhead and up to the current '13 cvo I have never trusted the lifters.  As soon as one fails to pump up instantly on a cold start they go!  I am lucky that I can do that myself since I come from a generation that feels one "know" your bike and be able to do your own wrenching.  Not the typical rider these days.  JMO

[Rooster]

Jerry I think you and I know the answer to your question. I think those of us that put on lots of miles all want the same thing. Ride and ride more without wondering what or when it will break again.

[Skipper]

Jerry I think you and I know the answer to your question. I think those of us that put on lots of miles all want the same thing. Ride and ride more without wondering what or when it will break again.

Well said Rooster. Nothing to add. Topic closed.

Skipper

[Trapperdog]

Since we own Japanese, European and American bikes, I frequent the model specific forums of our bikes. What I read on these other forums is inversely proportionate to what I read and experience here in regards to engine and drive train failure. Obviously not a double blind study, but those experiencing catastrophic failure before 80K miles in other forums about equals those NOT experiencing catastrophic failure with the 110's here.
Charging and General Electric problems there generally outweigh those here though.
I realize I'm comparing apples to oranges, but as Terry (rooster) stated, many here would like a long distance bike capable of high milege without the fear of consistent failure or the continual replacement of mechanical parts to achieve that. And HD is just not providing that for the majority of us.

[Rooster]

 

[flyin-r]

Like a Bic lighter. A bike with a disposable engine. What a joke. Its the engine that we buy Harley for and its the heart that craps out. What a f'n joke.

Yep. Since they quit using lifter blocks and Timken bearings, etc., that's exactly what it is.

[HD Street Performance]

"Useful life" is the key term.
How many CVO 110s reach the EPA required useful life of 5/30000mi?
I would guess less that 20%
Reading:
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/standards/light-duty/motorcycles.htm
More reading:
http://openjurist.org/598/f2d/228/harley-davidson-motor-company-inc-v-environmental-protection-agency
Looks like HD began fighting the "useful life" clause as early as 1978. Looks like that is where our dollars spent are allocated among other things. Not engineering.

"Section 207(a) of the Clean Air Act requires that manufacturers warrant "to the ultimate purchaser and each subsequent purchaser" that each new vehicle they produce is free from defects in materials and workmanship which cause such vehicle or engine To fail to conform with applicable regulations for its useful life. . . ."

Certainly a motor failure, especially in such large quantities, is a defect in material and/or workmanship right?

The CVO owners may consider a class action?

[twinotter]

HD must have worked (bribed) every official in the country to get an "expected engine life" to be 30,00 miles. On a $35000 + motorcycle!!!!  Come on!!!  It should run 75000 without ANY major work. HD has consistently degraded the parts in the never ending search for MORE PROFIT, while the HD buyers pay the bill!  I believe the Twin Cam platform with very minor tweaks in its early life showed the potential to be the best engine HD ever built.
They have destroyed that possibility now. Its time for the loyal HD fans to take a serious look at what they're actually buying. I can't believe that people keep buying the latest and greatest without actually thinking about the value for money spent. For me, its not there anymore. I'll keep my 01 until I can't ride anymore.  twinotter

[charles05663]

"Useful life" is the key term.
How many CVO 110s reach the EPA required useful life of 5/30000mi?
I would guess less that 20%
Reading:
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/standards/light-duty/motorcycles.htm
More reading:
http://openjurist.org/598/f2d/228/harley-davidson-motor-company-inc-v-environmental-protection-agency
Looks like HD began fighting the "useful life" clause as early as 1978. Looks like that is where our dollars spent are allocated among other things. Not engineering.

"Section 207(a) of the Clean Air Act requires that manufacturers warrant "to the ultimate purchaser and each subsequent purchaser" that each new vehicle they produce is free from defects in materials and workmanship which cause such vehicle or engine To fail to conform with applicable regulations for its useful life. . . ."

Certainly a motor failure, especially in such large quantities, is a defect in material and/or workmanship right?

The CVO owners may consider a class action?

That is very interesting.  Of course, HD will be able to come back on any owner who mods their engine and claim it is the owners fault.  Pretty much like it is now.

 

[HD Street Performance]

Yes true however their sales force sells these "upgrades" right at the new motorcycle purchase, in many cases and never say a word about warranty being void, and rolls that work and parts right into the financed price. I am aware of the fine print. Their Screaming Eagle line of products is supposed to offer improvements, Really!

[charles05663]

Yes true however their sales force sells these "upgrades" right at the new motorcycle purchase, in many cases and never say a word about warranty being void, and rolls that work and parts right into the financed price. I am aware of the fine print. Their Screaming Eagle line of products is supposed to offer improvements, Really!

This really is a win-win for the MoCo, the dealer, and the ESP.

• The MoCo makes more money selling all of the "performance" accessories
• The dealer makes more money on the sale of the bike with the sale of the accessories and installation of the performance parts
• The MoCo/ESP can now deny the warranty claims because of modified engines using "genuine" MoCo performance parts that are not street legal
• The dealer makes a high service fee because MoCo/ESP deny the claim due to the modified engines

In the end, the customer wonders why it hurts to sit down after dealing the the MoCo/dealer/ESP.  I am not against companies making a profit.  It bothers me to see companies knowingly screw the customer and baffles me to see customers coming back time and time again to pay premium prices for defective equipment.

I am also not saying all dealers act this way.  I know that there are some dealerships that serve and are loyal to the customer and fight for the customer.  Those who have such dealers are blessed.

 

[HD Street Performance]

Its about time for someone to mention the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act.
Haven't actually heard of customers having success threatening with that law. It's another case of HD VS Joe Bike Owner..