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CVO Technical => General CVO discussion => Topic started by: Designflaw on February 02, 2018, 03:32:12 PM
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The dealer offered me a great deal on Rinehart's, Header, Harley Tuner, and dyno tuning for what its worth with that tuner. All to keep my warranty in tact without hassle. As I dug in a bit further with the manager, he told me how Harley can enter their software system at any time and review work orders etc... Any time your bike is hooked up to the Diagnostic tool it reports back to MoCo and that's the biggest issue. They as a dealer said they will warranty anything they do, but can't say that about other dealers, or MoCo. This is pretty much what every one knows I assume.
What I didn't know is all of this goes away after the factory warranty, the ESP doesn't care and can't ping, review, or any of that. They fall back on the typical if the mod causes it "no", if it doesn't then "yes" of the old days. So..... I'm going to go 1 more year stock and then do it the way I want too!! :bananarock:
I know some of you don't care about warranties etc... but I do with this particular bike so I can wait a year. :drink:
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My dealer has said the same, but added that the ESP runs concurrent with the factory warranty. Therefore if they cannot charge against the factory they can run it against ESP. I have not had a need to try it yet. But I hope that is the case.
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My dealer has said the same, but added that the ESP runs concurrent with the factory warranty. Therefore if they cannot charge against the factory they can run it against ESP. I have not had a need to try it yet. But I hope that is the case.
I do not have a copy of the H-D ESP contract but I do think its wording is similar to others I have read. My understanding is that if your motorcycle is still within the factory warranty coverage period then the ESP will not pay. I've had several H-D ESPs on various bikes and it was always my understanding that the ESP did not kick in until after the expiration of the factory warranty.
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If it is under factory warranty and they the ESP won’t cover it, why do they run concurrently?? Isn’t that ripping you off for something you are paying for and get no esp coverage on? Does ESP cover something factory won’t? Seems like over charging for actual years you have coverage. You pay for 5 but really only get 3? Why not wait till warranty ends and buy an actual 5 year then at least then you get the years you pay for.
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I think the dealer is just telling you what you want to hear....and when something happens their 'tune' will change and you'll be in for a fight.
My dealer changed hands and the new owners won't stand behind anything the previous owner did.....even though Drane was assured that their loyal customers would be 'looked after'. Now...I don't have a dealer on the Island that I'll deal with...and only one in Vancouver as one of the two is also Barnes. My warranty and ESP are now done so.....for me...this subject is moot!
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I have 3 Harleys in my stable and all 3 have ESP...Waiting for Don at HDSP to send back my heads...ESP approved new barrels, pistons, cams, cam plate, and compensator ...4300 in parts and labor on my 2012 Road glide FLTRU, Knight Train(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180203/fb01512ecf0d41f3f3d01ebca71d6a89.jpg)
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However, for a 50.00 deductible it will be worth the wait..
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If it is under factory warranty and they the ESP won’t cover it, why do they run concurrently?? Isn’t that ripping you off for something you are paying for and get no esp coverage on? Does ESP cover something factory won’t? Seems like over charging for actual years you have coverage. You pay for 5 but really only get 3? Why not wait till warranty ends and buy an actual 5 year then at least then you get the years you pay for.
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you are correct, when you buy a 5 year at the same time you buy the bike, you are actually only getting 3 years extended. but, to answer your other question, yes, it does cover other things that the factory warranty does not, ie. tire and wheel damage, towing, trip interruption, at least. and there is a difference in price between 5 years running concurrently with factory two years, as opposed to 3 years after said warranty has expired.
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If it is under factory warranty and they the ESP won’t cover it, why do they run concurrently?? Isn’t that ripping you off for something you are paying for and get no esp coverage on? Does ESP cover something factory won’t? Seems like over charging for actual years you have coverage. You pay for 5 but really only get 3? Why not wait till warranty ends and buy an actual 5 year then at least then you get the years you pay for.
if & when you buy esp during the normal 2 yr factory warr. the esp 5 yrs doen't start until the 2 yrs expire. so you get a total of 7yr. I purchased esp from Kutter in 2013 on a 2012 & my esp doesn't expire until 2019.
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1st 2 years are factory..
Next 3 esp...I stayed under 75k in 5 years due to 2 bikes...Then I renewed my esp..
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ESP in the USA has been worse than Harley when it comes to denying claims due to non-stock components. If you want to believe all the verbal BS a dealer feeds you about warranty and ESP, feel free to do so. The sharp folks go by the legal contract, in writing, and always discount anything a dealer says as suspect at best. All those promises to "take care of you" are worth less than the air it took to utter the "promise".
Jerry
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ESP in the USA has been worse than Harley when it comes to denying claims due to non-stock components. If you want to believe all the verbal BS a dealer feeds you about warranty and ESP, feel free to do so. The sharp folks go by the legal contract, in writing, and always discount anything a dealer says as suspect at best. All those promises to "take care of you" are worth less than the air it took to utter the "promise".
Jerry
i agree with that. Five years ago on my three month old 2012 CVO Ultra I hit a large landscaping timber on the interstate. It was dark and I did not see it in time to avoid it. Luckily I did not crash but I did bend the front rim and cause the tire to deflate. ESP inspector came to check damage before claim was approved. He asked if I had a trailer hitch - like that could cause the damage. If he'd found evidence of that he would have denied the claim. Be paranoid and don't believe the BS someone at the dealership tells you unless you can get it in writing and I don't think that's gonna happen.
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i agree . Be paranoid and don't believe the BS someone at the dealership tells you unless you can get it in writing and I don't think that's gonna happen.
what gets me, they will install things that they know will void your warr, claims ( but do it anyway). then tell you "THEY" will stand by it. had a friend they did this with. he had engine failure & the dealer here couldn't touch it. had to be transported from Va back to OK. so, if you're anywhere outside of your dealer you're SOL. and then they might not stand with you if you don't have it in writing
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i agree . Be paranoid and don't believe the BS someone at the dealership tells you unless you can get it in writing and I don't think that's gonna happen.
what gets me, they will install things that they know will void your warr, claims ( but do it anyway). then tell you "THEY" will stand by it. had a friend they did this with. he had engine failure & the dealer here couldn't touch it. had to be transported from Va back to OK. so, if you're anywhere outside of your dealer you're SOL. and then they might not stand with you if you don't have it in writing
Dealers do this everyday. My local dealer sells pull behind trailers and installs hitches for them. He just became an authorized dealer / installer for the Tilting Works trike kit. Both of these mods can cause denial of claims by your factory warranty and your ESP. At least the trailer hitch can be removed. The trike conversion would be a tall order to change back to stock. Just sayin' if you want a warranty or ESP better stick to stock or H-D approved or mods that can easily be removed before service. Otherwise it's a crap shoot if an inspector is required or just happens to be on site and checks on your repair.
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While on the topic of "My Dealer Said". Someone I know with 30 plus years at the same dealer (service dept) told me the following. When an ESP claim is filed on motor/trans issues they want a photo of the Digital tech hooked to the motorcycle. He said will show vin and tuner status.
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The Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act does not allow warrantors to void warranties on the basis of non branded parts or because an unrelated modification has been done. It does not mean they will not try but it is unlawful.
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The Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act does not allow warrantors to void warranties on the basis of non branded parts or because an unrelated modification has been done. It does not mean they will not try but it is unlawful.
Which unfortunately does not apply to the ESP contract as it is not a “warranty”
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The Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act does not allow warrantors to void warranties on the basis of non branded parts or because an unrelated modification has been done. It does not mean they will not try but it is unlawful.
The ESP is not a warranty, regardless of what people call it. It is a service contract, and Mag-Moss does not address such products. Read the actual ESP contract and you will find they reserve the right to void the contract for nonstandard equipment, trailer hitches, and a lot of other stuff. I've even heard of a situation where an inspector for the ESP company denied coverage because the customer had an aftermarket oil filter installed, as ridiculous as that is.
When it comes to the factory warranty, that does fall under Mag-Moss but that law doesn't say they can't deny warranty coverage for nonstandard parts. It does say they can't deny coverage if you use nonstandard maintenance products, such as lubricants and filters, as long as those products meet the same standards. The only way the manufacturer can demand you use their maintenance products is if they provide those products to you free of charge. Harley can in fact deny warranty coverage for your engine if they detect tampering with the emission system including the tune. Note that the upgrade kits Harley sells these days come with a street legal and emissions compliant tune required, and using anything other than the legal tune will void the warranty. You will also be hard pressed to get them to voluntarily approve a warranty repair if they open up the engine and find an aftermarket oil pump or other nonstandard internal parts, regardless of whether you think the nonstandard parts did or did not cause the failure. You can sue them under that federal law of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if you lost.
If warranty or an ESP are of paramount importance to someone, those folks need to think long and hard about the mods they make and not just assume things or listen to someone trying to sell them products. Do the research, don't go by what Joe Blow says, weigh the options, and if they really want to do the mods be aware there is a certain amount of risk. And unlike the factory warranty, where Harley could deny an engine claim but still be required to cover the other items under the warranty, ESP just voids the entire contract. At best you could request a prorated refund of the purchase price for the ESP.
Jerry
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Well that puts a very bright light on the subject of ESPs. Thank you Jerry for your thorough explanation.
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The ESP is not a warranty, regardless of what people call it. It is a service contract, and Mag-Moss does not address such products. Read the actual ESP contract and you will find they reserve the right to void the contract for nonstandard equipment, trailer hitches, and a lot of other stuff. I've even heard of a situation where an inspector for the ESP company denied coverage because the customer had an aftermarket oil filter installed, as ridiculous as that is.
When it comes to the factory warranty, that does fall under Mag-Moss but that law doesn't say they can't deny warranty coverage for nonstandard parts. It does say they can't deny coverage if you use nonstandard maintenance products, such as lubricants and filters, as long as those products meet the same standards. The only way the manufacturer can demand you use their maintenance products is if they provide those products to you free of charge. Harley can in fact deny warranty coverage for your engine if they detect tampering with the emission system including the tune. Note that the upgrade kits Harley sells these days come with a street legal and emissions compliant tune required, and using anything other than the legal tune will void the warranty. You will also be hard pressed to get them to voluntarily approve a warranty repair if they open up the engine and find an aftermarket oil pump or other nonstandard internal parts, regardless of whether you think the nonstandard parts did or did not cause the failure. You can sue them under that federal law of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if you lost.
If warranty or an ESP are of paramount importance to someone, those folks need to think long and hard about the mods they make and not just assume things or listen to someone trying to sell them products. Do the research, don't go by what Joe Blow says, weigh the options, and if they really want to do the mods be aware there is a certain amount of risk. And unlike the factory warranty, where Harley could deny an engine claim but still be required to cover the other items under the warranty, ESP just voids the entire contract. At best you could request a prorated refund of the purchase price for the ESP.
Jerry
And that is the rub. You will lose even if you win. I am not an attorney but since it is a Federal law I would think you would have to sue in a Federal court which would not be speedy. In any case even if you won you might not get your attorney's fee reimbursed. Even if you should I doubt an attorney would take such a case on contingency so you would have to foot the bill hoping you would win and have the attorney fee reimbursed. All in all a big, big gamble for the little guy to take on the moco, imo. Probably cost way more than the amount of the repair. At least the repair would be a sure thing whereas any lawsuit is a bit of a gamble.