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CVO Technical => Twin Cam => Topic started by: slinkcvo on November 02, 2018, 09:47:27 AM
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Bought new in Feb 2017, 25K miles flawless then motor starts "ticking" a few days ago. Service manager calls me yesterday and informs me that motor is full of metal particles, very frustrating. Love this bike but unsure of continuing with it with a Stage rebuild or trading for a '19 Limited. Wondering if a stage rebuild will have any more longevity? Recommendations and advice appreciated.
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Bought new in Feb 2017, 25K miles flawless then motor starts "ticking" a few days ago. Service manager calls me yesterday and informs me that motor is full of metal particles, very frustrating. Love this bike but unsure of continuing with it with a Stage rebuild or trading for a '19 Limited. Wondering if a stage rebuild will have any more longevity? Recommendations and advice appreciated.
The damage should be covered under the factory warranty. Are they replacing the engine at no cost?
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You bought a '16 model that failed. You're now considering a '19 from the same company that sold you a bike that tanked after three years. If you've read posts on this, or any HD forum, you must know the MoCo has problems with the M8 oiling system (sumping), which causes engines to fail. No one knows if the oiling issue has been resolved in the '19s. It's your money, so ask yourself how much risk you're willing to take on a '19. When deciding whether to give the MoCo another $$$, I'd also factor in that HD has been forced to recall about 250k bikes due to bad hydraulic clutches.
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You bought a '16 model that failed. You're now considering a '19 from the same company that sold you a bike that tanked after three years. If you've read posts on this, or any HD forum, you must know the MoCo has problems with the M8 oiling system (sumping), which causes engines to fail. No one knows if the oiling issue has been resolved in the '19s. It's your money, so ask yourself how much risk you're willing to take on a '19. When deciding whether to give the MoCo another $$$, I'd also factor in that HD has been forced to recall about 250k bikes due to bad hydraulic clutches.
Probably failed lifter but could be alot of other possible reasons on a TC. Since he bought new in Feb 2017 it should be fully covered under the 2 yr factory warranty. Should be quickly addressed assuming his factory warranty wasn't voided for some reason. EPA sanctions shouldn't apply to 2016 HD bikes, so a tuner "shouldn't" necessarily void his warranty but who knows any more. I agree, probably not the best time to jump from a '16 TC CVO to a '19 M8 CVO.
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Bought new in Feb 2017, 25K miles flawless then motor starts "ticking" a few days ago. Service manager calls me yesterday and informs me that motor is full of metal particles, very frustrating. Love this bike but unsure of continuing with it with a Stage rebuild or trading for a '19 Limited. Wondering if a stage rebuild will have any more longevity? Recommendations and advice appreciated.
You have a lot of determining factors to consider.
1. Is the bike paid off?
2. Is the bike still under warranty?
3. Are you tired of your bike and really want a new one anyway?
4. Would you be happy riding your current bike for another 5 years?
5. and probably many more questions.
If it's under warranty and you can get it fixed for free - obvious answer.
Once fixed, do you want to invest in an extended warranty?
25k is not a lot of miles. An extended warranty of 5 years would be you down the road for a long time.
Or if you want a new bike .. well no amount of reasoning and calculations really matters. :)
DH
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Bike is not paid off but have a good amount of equity. Bike is still under initial warranty and have 3 year ESP. Normally don't keep bikes more than 5 years. Like the bike a lot but not enthused about keeping it if new stock motor or stage motor will only last 25k miles. I ride that many miles per year between my two bikes. Will rebuilt stage motor with upgrades be any more reliable than stock?
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Since the stage X camshafts are typically more aggressive than the stock, it wouldn't be unexpected that the stage X upgrade would be slightly less reliable from a lifter failure perspective (which is what I assume did the first engine in).
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Bike is not paid off but have a good amount of equity. Bike is still under initial warranty and have 3 year ESP. Normally don't keep bikes more than 5 years. Like the bike a lot but not enthused about keeping it if new stock motor or stage motor will only last 25k miles. I ride that many miles per year between my two bikes. Will rebuilt stage motor with upgrades be any more reliable than stock?
Well, in my mind it would come down to how long do you want to be in debt? I had a 2011 CVO FLTRUSE. I put 60k miles on it. I had 4 major repairs including valves from 2011-2015. Insurance/Warranty covered all the repairs. I was not mad or uncomfortable about a breakdown. When it got to 60k I traded it for a 2015 before I rode all the value out of it.
Just me, your mileage may vary.
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I don't see how HD stays in Business with all the Motor problems.
This why I Ride Older EVO FXR4 CVO with S&S V111 65k miles and a 98 Road King with S&S V124 with 25k miles so far. No issues with either.
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So the service manager who I have known for a while and have trust and confidence in just provided an update; pretty much every component of the motor except the jugs, heads, and cases are toast but the warranty will cover which is good news. He said that we could upgrade to a 117 stage 4 with welded crank and other durability enhancements for $2008 out of pocket. My two yr warranty expires in Feb and they will not extend because of the new motor so will be going onto the ESP portion of the warranty. Does anybody know anything about these 117 Twin Cam kits? Really undecided about committing to this versus trading for a '19 Limited.
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Whatever you decide have the S&S lifters installed at rebuild time. Most likely that is the reason your engine failed. (stock lifters). Might be a good time to change out valve springs and valve guides as well.
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So the service manager who I have known for a while and have trust and confidence in just provided an update; pretty much every component of the motor except the jugs, heads, and cases are toast but the warranty will cover which is good news. He said that we could upgrade to a 117 stage 4 with welded crank and other durability enhancements for $2008 out of pocket. My two yr warranty expires in Feb and they will not extend because of the new motor so will be going onto the ESP portion of the warranty. Does anybody know anything about these 117 Twin Cam kits? Really undecided about committing to this versus trading for a '19 Limited.
The 117 kits seem to be relatively reliable, but your not fixing the failure points in the kit. Lifters and crank are the most common failure points. Those should be addressed 110 or 117. Get a good lifter not something that says HD or SE on it
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So the service manager who I have known for a while and have trust and confidence in just provided an update; pretty much every component of the motor except the jugs, heads, and cases are toast but the warranty will cover which is good news. He said that we could upgrade to a 117 stage 4 with welded crank and other durability enhancements for $2008 out of pocket. My two yr warranty expires in Feb and they will not extend because of the new motor so will be going onto the ESP portion of the warranty. Does anybody know anything about these 117 Twin Cam kits? Really undecided about committing to this versus trading for a '19 Limited.
The 117 kits seem to be relatively reliable, but your not fixing the failure points in the kit. Lifters and crank are the most common failure points. Those should be addressed 110 or 117. Get a good lifter not something that says HD or SE on it
They are addressing the crank.
Whatever you decide have the S&S lifters installed at rebuild time. Most likely that is the reason your engine failed. (stock lifters). Might be a good time to change out valve springs and valve guides as well.
Most definitely go w/something other than MoCo lifters as they have been a known issue/cause of failures.
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
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So the service manager who I have known for a while and have trust and confidence in just provided an update; pretty much every component of the motor except the jugs, heads, and cases are toast but the warranty will cover which is good news. He said that we could upgrade to a 117 stage 4 with welded crank and other durability enhancements for $2008 out of pocket. My two yr warranty expires in Feb and they will not extend because of the new motor so will be going onto the ESP portion of the warranty. Does anybody know anything about these 117 Twin Cam kits? Really undecided about committing to this versus trading for a '19 Limited.
Anything beyond stock components will technically void your ESP. First question asked is about any modifications or performance parts. The 117 kit or welding the crank would do it. I would push for a complete long block and maybe the oil cooler too. Those pieces of metal went everywhere. Seen this scenario many times working at a dealership. Depending on the dealer, I’d much rather have the long block before letting some techs rebuild part of your engine. Good luck!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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What he said ^^^! The ESP folks have been tougher than H-D when it comes to modifications. And the best approach to the repair was also spot on; insist on a complete engine replacement or at least a long block. And yes, the oil lines, oil pan, and oil cooler will be full of metal particles and that needs to be addressed as well. The lines and cooler can be flushed if done right, people have reported the oil pan is quite difficult to clean completely.
Jerry
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I would let them fix it under warranty while you are shopping for your new 19 Limited. You should get a great trade with a fresh motor. Definitely push for new motor/long block and good luck.
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^^ I would let them fix it under warranty while I shopped for a new Indian or something else that struck my interest.
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^^ I would let them fix it under warranty while I shopped for a new Indian or something else that struck my interest.
agreed! :2vrolijk_21:
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Appreciate everyone'a input particularly about modified motors. Spent pretty much all day at the dealer. Not good with getting the same motor with issues & despite best intentions the svc option of stage 117 motor & welded crank other durability enhancements would be on shady warranty territory at best. Normally I know what my course of action is in these situations. Unsure, went to showroom, test road mod'd RG special, Mod'd SG special, really nice rideability, way too much bling. Last ride, limited cool piece. Left with a SG special, gonna put a tour pak on a keep on and keep on moving. To the gentlemen's point; got on a victory xc in Sep 2015. Great bike but stepped off Oct 17 when they went sideways about warranty issues so be careful of stepping into the Polaris world of walking away from product lines. I know the devil I know so will keep on dealing with it.
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I know the devil I know so will keep on dealing with it.
Very well stated, slink.
Congrats on the new SG Special. What color did you choose and how about a couple pictures?
You gotta do what you can live with and sounds like this was the right decision for you... :2vrolijk_21:
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The new ride. Appreciate all the advise.
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Appreciate everyone'a input particularly about modified motors. Spent pretty much all day at the dealer. Not good with getting the same motor with issues & despite best intentions the svc option of stage 117 motor & welded crank other durability enhancements would be on shady warranty territory at best. Normally I know what my course of action is in these situations. Unsure, went to showroom, test road mod'd RG special, Mod'd SG special, really nice rideability, way too much bling. Last ride, limited cool piece. Left with a SG special, gonna put a tour pak on a keep on and keep on moving. To the gentlemen's point; got on a victory xc in Sep 2015. Great bike but stepped off Oct 17 when they went sideways about warranty issues so be careful of stepping into the Polaris world of walking away from product lines. I know the devil I know so will keep on dealing with it.
I understand and tend to agree with that statement. I know a guy who has a new 2018 Goldwing and just for chits and grins :huepfenlol2: I've been trolling several of the Honda / Goldwing forums. It has been an eye opener in that many similar complaints (well not oil migration or sumping, lol) are voiced here. It's taken me years to get somewhat up to speed with Harleys and their deficiencies and idiosyncrasies. Don't know that I'd have the patience or fortitude to start over with another brand as they all have their 'issues.'
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The new ride. Appreciate all the advise.
Nice Slink, you did well. Is that the denim it is hard to tell with the shadowing in the pic. I have the special in billiard blue and love the bike and the color.
Check the mfg date on the front left tube and see when it was made. If early make like mine is July it may not have the new pump seal everyone is concerned with. Fingers crossed on mine.
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If Harley keeps shooting themselves in the foot, they won't have any customers left.
The younger crowd isn't buying them and us older folks will soon be tired of their nonsense
or we'll be too old to ride the damn things.
They better wise up or they'll go by the wayside.
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Color: Industrial Grey Denim
Build date: 18 Aug 2018. Appreciate all the words of encouragement.