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CVO Technical => Drive Train => Topic started by: Fullsac Performance on October 07, 2011, 07:46:02 PM
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This aftermarket belt breakage issue has really been bugging me for some time. After returning home from a 3K Montana trip, I sold my 09 107" to a good friend.
He made it about two blocks and the Falcon belt snapped. Did I get lucky to make it home or what? Needless to say the bike was brought back to my shop with a simple WTF
are you going to do about this? I had already been thinking about the possibilty of a tentioner pulley and started heading in that direction. Then I got this idea about the possibilty of lengthening the swingarm a 1/2 inch instead. I decided to check the actual amount behond the stock rear adjustment that the axel needed to go and was surprised to find it was less than 1/4". As a fabricator, what came next was easier than I ever imagined.
This thread is intended to show a simple way for a fabricator to modify your swingarm and run the 30T with the stock OEM belt. I have no plans of offering this swingarm mod. Sorry.
Steve George
Fullsac Performance
Pic 1,
A simple gusset was welded to the rear of the swingarm to allow .200 of material to be removed with out weekening the axle slot.
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Pic 2
The bald guy can still weld.
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Pic 3
Gussets welded and time for grinding.
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Pic 4
The axle slot has been lengthened rearward about .200 by hand with a die grinder and a carbide bit. The same tool I use to remove the CVO cores. I bought a brand new 28.00 cross cut carbide bit just for this job. A 1/4 spacer has been added to the cam adjuster face to use the additional space rearward now available. Sorry, no one was around to take a pic of me grinding this out. It took about a half hour for both.
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All finished and read to ride! You can definitely see how much closer the axle is to the shock mount. Actually had to clearance the
shock bolt boss just slightly to clear the cam adjuster.
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Being a big fan of simple solutions I like that a lot Steve. Nicely done. No great stress on the rear of the swing arm anyway and nothing is done to weaken the sides under compression when the axle is tightened. Gotta love the KISS principle when it works out :2vrolijk_21: .
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so a 30 tooth conversion can be done in the well equipped home shop - for less than a hundred bux?
wow!
im still going to wait till i need to take the primary off for some other reason
<grin>
rode every day the last two weeks to work - in october in minnesota - and the first day i wore ANY jacket home was today in the sprinkles... <grin>
to
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Great idea Steve!!!!
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Great idea Steve!!!!
Thanks.
Now you have one more thing to do this winter. :2vrolijk_21:
Steve
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Steve, The 1 tooth shorter belt HD/PN-40056-07 i am running now. Should i be worried about breakage with this belt? It's hooked up to a 120r. 07 FLHTCUSE2 30/66
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Steve, The 1 tooth shorter belt HD/PN-40056-07 i am running now. Should i be worried about breakage with this belt? It's hooked up to a 120r. 07 FLHTCUSE2 30/66
That's a 136T OEM belt on an 07. No issues there, let er rip.
Steve
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yes i do, I actually thought of just weld building up the area's below and behind the slot, Then machining it back further, A little ER70S-2 watch the inrterpass temp at 350 degrees and done! I just put on a chrome inner primary so ill wait till snow flies :huepfenjump3:
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ok.. so the issue is the aftermarket belt? & aftermarket sprocket?
if i use the hd japan belt and the hd trike sprocket its ok?
? to
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after market belt issues
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There have been very few HD belt breakage issues, but the after market has become suspect.
30T sprocket is of no issue, and HD now makes a less expensive choice.
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I'm probably going to remove the Andrews 30 T sprocket this winter and replace it with the Tri Glide sprocket, I should be used to doing everything twice by now. I totally agree that the OEM belt is the best way to go. I think Steve's persistence is a huge asset for those that have done the conversion or are thinking about it. If I had a black swingarm I would go this route but I just don't see how this can be done on a CVO for $100.00 unless you don't have to paint the swingarm. We can easily remove the material required but I don't think the gusset can be installed without having to paint the area. Am I wrong here?
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I'm probably going to remove the Andrews 30 T sprocket this winter and replace it with the Tri Glide sprocket, I should be used to doing everything twice by now. I totally agree that the OEM belt is the best way to go. I think Steve's persistence is a huge asset for those that have done the conversion or are thinking about it. If I had a black swingarm I would go this route but I just don't see how this can be done on a CVO for $100.00 unless you don't have to paint the swingarm. We can easily remove the material required but I don't think the gusset can be installed without having to paint the area. Am I wrong here?
You are correct. Welding is hell on paint! :2vrolijk_21:
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Pic 2
The bald guy can still weld.
That is a pretty weld.
Good Job
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I'm probably going to remove the Andrews 30 T sprocket this winter and replace it with the Tri Glide sprocket, I should be used to doing everything twice by now. I totally agree that the OEM belt is the best way to go. I think Steve's persistence is a huge asset for those that have done the conversion or are thinking about it. If I had a black swingarm I would go this route but I just don't see how this can be done on a CVO for $100.00 unless you don't have to paint the swingarm. We can easily remove the material required but I don't think the gusset can be installed without having to paint the area. Am I wrong here?
I don't believe there's any issues with the Andrew's pulleys. I ran a 30T Andrews for over 10K on my 07 with an OEM Sportster belt.
I will be using an Andrews 31T on the 120R going in my 2012 SG. I had this particular 31T on three different bikes now. By the way, the 31T is doable with a stock
belt and a less invasive swingarm mod. A guy just needs to add a little material to the cam adjusters to push the axle to the end of the slot. Right now there is rear travel left,
the stock cams just don't use it all. Maybe a slight clearance at the end of the axle slot too. No repaint with this mod. I bet this little trick gets popular. :2vrolijk_21:
Steve George
Fullsac Performance
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Good news to hear that the Andrews is not the issue, saves me allot of time as I'm slow and have to borrow all the tools to get the job done. I'm using the Sportster belt (136T) you recommended and so far the belt looks like new with 6K on it. So if I'm already using an OEM belt I don't see a reason to lengthen the slot in the swingarm. Is this something you are doing or recomending to stay with the OEM belt sizes for various bikes? Thanks for all the input Steve.
Ray G.
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Good news to hear that the Andrews is not the issue, saves me allot of time as I'm slow and have to borrow all the tools to get the job done. I'm using the Sportster belt (136T) you recommended and so far the belt looks like new with 6K on it. So if I'm already using an OEM belt I don't see a reason to lengthen the slot in the swingarm. Is this something you are doing or recomending to stay with the OEM belt sizes for various bikes? Thanks for all the input Steve.
Ray G.
Your 08 is different from the 09s and later bikes. You have the option of a 1 tooth shorter, 136T OEM Sporty belt. The 09s and later bikes need a 139T belt
that is only available in the aftermarket. That's why we need a swingarm mod to run the OEM 140T.
Your the lucky dog, leave it alone and ride it!
Steve
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I spent all day yesterday tearing apart my 2011 Ultra to put on a 30T pulley from the HD Trike and a 137T belt from a 2007 dresser. To my dismay it doesn't work. :oops: Can't get the wheel forward enough to install the axle. I assumed since the wheel was almost all the way back in the adjustment slot that would be -1T to bring it to the front and 2 less teeth on the pulley it would all work. Soooo if anyone wants a new genuine HD 1" wide 137T belt cheap let me know. Sucks to be me today.
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Your 08 is different from the 09s and later bikes. You have the option of a 1 tooth shorter, 136T OEM Sporty belt. The 09s and later bikes need a 139T belt
that is only available in the aftermarket. That's why we need a swingarm mod to run the OEM 140T.
Your the lucky dog, leave it alone and ride it!
Steve
So on 08 se ultra I can change pulley and put on sportster belt? No worries
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So on 08 se ultra I can change pulley and put on sportster belt? No worries
Keep in mind that you'll be using a belt whose application and design specs were for a bike that weighs about 550 pounds and has 60-65 horsepower. You'll then be that putting in a bike that weighs a ton and will likely double the torque of the original application.
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I spent all day yesterday tearing apart my 2011 Ultra to put on a 30T pulley from the HD Trike and a 137T belt from a 2007 dresser. To my dismay it doesn't work. :oops: Can't get the wheel forward enough to install the axle. I assumed since the wheel was almost all the way back in the adjustment slot that would be -1T to bring it to the front and 2 less teeth on the pulley it would all work. Soooo if anyone wants a new genuine HD 1" wide 137T belt cheap let me know. Sucks to be me today.
You had the right idea Dave. You went -3 teeth on the belt. The stock 2011 belt is 140T.
SG
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You had the right idea Dave. You went -3 teeth on the belt. The stock 2011 belt is 140T.
SG
Yeah I know stock is 140T. I figured the 2 less teeth on the pulley and the slot distance would allow for the 3rd tooth. As Maxwell Smart says " I missed it by thaaat much"! :D
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I assumed since the wheel was almost all the way back in the adjustment slot that would be -1T to bring it to the front
I quess I misunderstood your first post. I'm not real good with Celsius conversion as a few know.
SG
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Keep in mind that you'll be using a belt whose application and design specs were for a bike that weighs about 550 pounds and has 60-65 horsepower. You'll then be that putting in a bike that weighs a ton and will likely double the torque of the original application.
There goes that idea :huepfenlol2:Thanks
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So on 08 se ultra I can change pulley and put on sportster belt? No worries
Yes! No issues with the Sportster belt on a 100 HP bagger. I did this a hundred times with my Sportster belted 07. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJhXnCOt-Qw
SG
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Yes! No issues with the Sportster belt on a 100 HP bagger. I did this a hundred times with my Sportster belted 07. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJhXnCOt-Qw
SG
Awesome! Looks like I do have a winter project. Now I gotta find part numbers
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Awesome! Looks like I do have a winter project. Now I gotta find part numbers
The 1" 136 tooth sportster belt is 40056-07. The 30 tooth Tri Glide trans sprocket is 83595-11. :2vrolijk_21:
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The 136T Sportster belt is what I used to replace the failed Falcon. I don't see any manufacturing difference when comparing the Sportster belt vs a new OEM for the large V-Twins. I seriously doubt that they are manufactuted any different from one model to another, it just isn't cost effective. If it held up for Steve it should be OK for my use.
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The 136T Sportster belt is what I used to replace the failed Falcon. I don't see any manufacturing difference when comparing the Sportster belt vs a new OEM for the large V-Twins. I seriously doubt that they are manufactuted any different from one model to another, it just isn't cost effective. If it held up for Steve it should be OK for my use.
From an inventory perspective that's unlikely though. There is cost to multiple part numbers. If the belts were truly the same they'd make one belt.
Just because one can't "see" from the outside any difference in belting, stitching, materials or other adjuncts of manufacture in no way means they're not there. From the outside, for example, an 88" and a 95" don't look any different either.
It's a nice simple solution. Hope it's actually a good one. Hard to completely trust it without actual mftr'ing specs though.
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The 1" 136 tooth sportster belt is 40056-07. The 30 tooth Tri Glide trans sprocket is 83595-11. :2vrolijk_21:
Thanks for doin my homework :huepfenlol2:
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The 1" 136 tooth sportster belt is 40056-07. The 30 tooth Tri Glide trans sprocket is 83595-11. :2vrolijk_21:
Thanks Sadunbar.
Don't even hesitate Pete. It will the best single mod you make to your bike with proven and tested OEM parts. The 07-08s have the worst gearing ever.
SG
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Steve I somewhat agree, however when looking at it as a purely manufacturing standpoint I suspect that they use the same formula and just make it to the various lengths to fill the orders. I have some experience in manufacturing and that is just my opinion. I have a person in mind that can do a great job at comparing the belts at a lab but in my case the Sportster belt will be used and I'm looking at a whole different way of addressing this issue. I'm sure someone can find manufacturing specs from Gates on the particular belts in question. It sure would be nice to put this one to bed and have complete confidence in these belts as the 30T change made such a positive impact.
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Your 08 is different from the 09s and later bikes. You have the option of a 1 tooth shorter, 136T OEM Sporty belt. The 09s and later bikes need a 139T belt
that is only available in the aftermarket. That's why we need a swingarm mod to run the OEM 140T.
Your the lucky dog, leave it alone and ride it!
Steve
Can the rear pulley from an 07-08 be used on a 09-newer rear wheel?
Then the front 30 tooth pulley / 136T Sportster belt combo would work?
All OEM parts?
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Help??
The bike i just bought a 2011 SERGU off a member on the site and he installed a 30t sprocket on the bike. Not sure if he made any other mods to address the issue, of if he was even aware of the problem, if there is one? SO, if I understand this thread correctly, I could have a problem in the future with the drive belt breaking if i continue to run this sprocket?????? Or maybe, hopefully we are talking two different things, sproket/pulley???
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:nixweiss:
Harley does NOT make drive belts. They use a supplier and someone should be able to I.D. which one it happens to be. I cannot believe that whomever the manufactorer is..........makes the H.D. belt with certain specifications (strength), etc. and then makes another supply of similar lengths that don't share that same reliability and passes those off to other suppliers like Drag Specialties, etc.
I'm not believeing an H.D. belt is or should be any stronger or more reliable than another.............assuming that they (HD) have a supplier that markets to more than just H.D. to supply cogged drive belts. :-\
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I'm pretty sure that Gates has been identified as the OEM mfg. on this post. If it hasn't Gates is the mfg. Drag Specialties could have various suppliers depending on the length, I had a Falcon from Drag that went south after 3000 miles. Others have had better luck with theirs. I think Steve has been promoting the use of the OEM belts just to be on the safe side via his modification of the swingarm. I wouldn't panic on the belt until you identify it. Post what you have on your 30t conversion and I'm sure you will receive the proper advice on how to proceed.
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I spoke with Mark the owner of the bike I bought. When he went to a 30t sprocket, he bought a belt from Drag Specialties and replaced it to compensate for the 2 teeth. Hopefully I won't have any issues. Thats a problem that obviously waits to go wrong when your on the road riding and probably not close to home!
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OK Steve, it has been a few months since you did this modification, any thoughts? Looks like the ticket, I am planning on doing it, get this aftermarket belt off my bike, just curious if you have rethought anything or would do anything different? What thickness metal did you use for the gusset? I have a nice Miller Mig welder, but not sure if I want to weld it or pay somebody that can do a nice Tig weld on it like yours.
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Steve once again came through with a great solution. Let us know what the total cost is to do the swingarm considering it will most likely have to be repainted. Other than the issue of broken belts mostly non OEM I don't think there has been any complaints or disappointments with the benefits of the 30t conversion.
Good Luck
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I am very happy with the conversion besides that. My plan is to try and just repaint the end cast piece. Should be able to wrap the swingarm in a wet rag, then tack the gusset in place (let cool) weld one side of gusset (let cool) then weld the other side. I am thinking the cost is going to be VERY minimal. I am pretty anal about my bike, but I can live with the end piece of the swingarm having a raddle can paint job.
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OK Steve, it has been a few months since you did this modification, any thoughts? Looks like the ticket, I am planning on doing it, get this aftermarket belt off my bike, just curious if you have rethought anything or would do anything different? What thickness metal did you use for the gusset? I have a nice Miller Mig welder, but not sure if I want to weld it or pay somebody that can do a nice Tig weld on it like yours.
A friend of mine lengthened the slot on his swingarm with out adding the gusset. I actually lengthened the slot further than required. He went less and had more material
under the shock mount and felt comfortable with it. My concerns strength were all focused on the shock mount. A shock mount failure on a big hit at 80 would end the day miserably.
I plan on modifying my 2012 swingarm the exact same way with the 1/4" thick gussets welded on.
Steve
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I have to say I agree with you, adding the gusset is minimal work, and the strength benefit I would think would be huge.
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Steve,
Can you give a recommendation on what bit to use? I don't want to waste my money on a crappy bit that won't do the job.
You need to pick up a swingarm off e-bay and offer an exchange service.... I know, you said you aren't going to, you could make some money though.
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Steve,
Can you give a recommendation on what bit to use? I don't want to waste my money on a crappy bit that won't do the job.
You need to pick up a swingarm off e-bay and offer an exchange service.... I know, you said you aren't going to, you could make some money though.
This is what I use. They are on sale too!
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=17796882&PMAKA=317-0241
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you are the man! Your help is very much appreciated!!
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QUESTION: for a 2011 SERGU and the andrews 30t pulley, is this the recommmended belt?
Drag Specialties Part # 1204-0064
Vendor # BDLSPCB-139-1
BELT REAR DRV 1" 139T
#G0500-01A7 which appears to be a Gates manufacturing number?
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recommended belt is stock, Gates has patent.
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That is the belt I used. The trick setup is to modify your stock swingarm and use a stock belt, seems to be to many broken belts around!! Looks like a pretty easy mod and you have the dependability of a stock belt.
Some may Steve is a genius!!
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i am doing the 30 tooth pulley on my 2011 and have been told by the dealer that the The Buell Blast belt is 139 tooth i think it is about year 2008 hope this helps i know the belt i am sending back now and thay say the falcon is 33%stronger :-\
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i am doing the 30 tooth pulley on my 2011 and have been told by the dealer that the The Buell Blast belt is 139 tooth i think it is about year 2008 hope this helps i know the belt i am sending back now and thay say the falcon is 33%stronger :-\
Sorry to say, the Buel blast belt won't work. Its only 5/8" wide. Already wasted money on one months ago. Just thought I would share.
SG
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i am doing the 30 tooth pulley on my 2011 and have been told by the dealer that the The Buell Blast belt is 139 tooth i think it is about year 2008 hope this helps i know the belt i am sending back now and thay say the falcon is 33%stronger :-\
IMO, nobody I've heard of has had issues with the following belt:
-139 T Gates Poly belt-Mid USA #MU-77560
I'm likely going to go ahead with the 30T as well, and this is the belt I'm going with. It can be found at a discount from American Legends Motorcycles ($115.78)
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:coolblue: Bump for an update, did you pull the trigger?
IMO, nobody I've heard of has had issues with the following belt:
-139 T Gates Poly belt-Mid USA #MU-77560
I'm likely going to go ahead with the 30T as well, and this is the belt I'm going with. It can be found at a discount from American Legends Motorcycles ($115.78)
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:coolblue: Bump for an update, did you pull the trigger?
Still waiting for it- they are out of stock, so I'll likely order the same belt from BDL (www.beltdrives.com). It's $139.50 from BDL, but if they have it in stock, I'll do that.
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Still waiting for it- they are out of stock, so I'll likely order the same belt from BDL (www.beltdrives.com). It's $139.50 from BDL, but if they have it in stock, I'll do that.
I have a brand new in the box BDL 139T on the shelf you can have for 125.00 + shipping.
Call Alice if interested. 928-505-2912
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IMO, nobody I've heard of has had issues with the following belt:
-139 T Gates Poly belt-Mid USA #MU-77560
I'm likely going to go ahead with the 30T as well, and this is the belt I'm going with. It can be found at a discount from American Legends Motorcycles ($115.78)
Ordered mine today. I looked at my belt the other day when i pulled the bike out of storage FALCON belt is on the bike. Brand new but i rather switch than get stuck somewhere!
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All right, I am 2 hours into this mod. I already had done the 30 tooth sprocket, so I didn't need to change it. In that 2 hours, I pulled the rear wheel/swingarm/outer primary/inner primary/clutch/etc, etc, etc. Then I put the stock belt on, and completely bolted the swingarm and rear tire back on the bike. Next I verified how much material I needed to take off the swingarm, and took it back apart. .200 seems to be the magic number, the rear of the swingarm is a little over .400, so I will be taking 50% of that off and the gussetting it. So far I am only into it for the price of the bit, will update as I go along.
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I have a brand new in the box BDL 139T on the shelf you can have for 125.00 + shipping.
Call Alice if interested. 928-505-2912
Appreciate the offer Steve, but I already ordered one from BDL- wish I saw this post before I did. This is the Gates manufactured belt for anyone who is interested in it.
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Appreciate the offer Steve, but I already ordered one from BDL- wish I saw this post before I did. This is the Gates manufactured belt for anyone who is interested in it.
I can't confirm the actual manufacture, Falcon and BDL are the names printed on the belt. But I can confirm this.
It is the exact belt myself and more than several other have been left sitting on the side of the road with. Not trying to rain on your parade, just help you
understand the direction you are heading. Best of luck.
SG
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I can't confirm the actual manufacture, Falcon and BDL are the names printed on the belt. But I can confirm this.
It is the exact belt myself and more than several other have been left sitting on the side of the road with. Not trying to rain on your parade, just help you
understand the direction you are heading. Best of luck.
SG
Mine lasted 600 miles. It broke at 15mph.
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Mine lasted 600 miles. It broke at 15mph.
You are the new low mile record holder!
Rumor has it that Jim at Metal Dragon is going to be our new swingarm mod Guy. You didn't hear it from me.
SG
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I ordered my belt last week, apparently there are none to be had period. I was told some blog :confused5: mentioned that the Falcon BDL was breaking with the 30t Andrews pulley and the word was that the Gates Belt was the way to go! The Falcon belt is available, but they have no idea when the Gates belt listed below will be back in stock? That was American Legends, but they said they checked with other vendors including Gates....none available anywhere? Power of the BLOG!
-139 T Gates Poly belt-Mid USA #MU-77560
I'm likely going to go ahead with the 30T as well, and this is the belt I'm going with. It can be found at a discount from American Legends Motorcycles ($115.78)
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I ordered my belt last week, apparently there are none to be had period. I was told some blog :confused5: mentioned that the Falcon BDL was breaking with the 30t Andrews pulley and the word was that the Gates Belt was the way to go! The Falcon belt is available, but they have no idea when the Gates belt listed below will be back in stock? That was American Legends, but they said they checked with other vendors including Gates....none available anywhere? Power of the BLOG!
-139 T Gates Poly belt-Mid USA #MU-77560
I'm likely going to go ahead with the 30T as well, and this is the belt I'm going with. It can be found at a discount from American Legends Motorcycles ($115.78)
I cancelled my order with American Legends because BDL said they had the Gates belt in stock (the guy went to the back and actually physically checked). Having said that, I don't think it shipped yet because I didn't get notified, and it didn't come off my credit card yet.
I'm not in a huge rush anyhow- I got some other mods to do ahead of this one.
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An update for anybody thinking about doing this mod. I did it, it was a piece of cake, and I have a total of $60 into it. $10 for a 1/4" x 3" x 5' flat stock (5' is minimum they sold), $20 to buy the grinding tool Steve recommended, $30 to the welder. I have a torch, so I mocked up my gusset with paper, then cut it out of the steel, and ground it to perfection (or until I was happy). I decided to pay somebody that welds all the time, so it looks better. Grinding the axle slot was like butter! I am so happy to have the stock belt back on, the belt breaking was always in the back of my mind. I will be listing the aftermarket belt in the for sale section if any body want is. I purchased it from Drag, it is in PERFECT shape, no signs of trouble.
Thanks for pioneering this Steve!! Big kudo's to you on this!!
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Mine lasted 600 miles. It broke at 15mph.
got 92 miles on mine and snapped it in half. :furious2: starting swing arm mod tomorrow.
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FAST380,
A question for you on your mods, what did you do concerning the paint? I wish you the best of luck and this is not intended to flame anyone. How can you tell by looking at a belt that it is OK. Honestly I'm not being a wise guy but if there is something to be learned here I'm all for it. No doubt the mod is worth it it's just the amount of belts supplied from Drag is usually a Falcon and we know about there past history. Maybe Drag uses a variety of suppliers for belts, hope you got a good one.
Wouldn't it be great if belts could be supplied with a splice kit that was just as strong as the OEM, it would make installing belts a snap. I know I would worry less when on a long trip. Would let me drop the hammer once in a while as well.
Any photos?
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RayG,
As for the paint, it only messed up the drop out section. On the '09 and later the very rear of the swingarm is a cast section that is welded to the swingarm (at least that is what it looks like to me). I just taped off the main portion of the swingarm and painted the cast section. This may not be the answer if you don't have bags, but with bags you can't tell AT ALL!! As a matter a fact, my wife came out when my swingarm was sitting on my bench after I painted it, and asked if the whole thing got painted.
As for the Drag belt I took off, hell I have no idea how long it will last somebody. Some people have been running them with no problem. It will make a good backup for somebody. I looked pretty close when I took it off, because I was curious if I would see anything. To the naked eye, I didn't see anything.
Is your bike an '08? I am not even sure if modifying the swingarm on your year will work, totally different swingarm. I just know that I feel much better now that I have the OEM belt back on my bike.
Now don't laugh, my gusset is much bulkier than Steve's, but I wanted to have a lot of support, all the way up to supporting the shock mount.
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Fast380,
I guess you are fast! Thanks for not taking my input in a negative fashion. If I had your year bike I would have done the swingarm mods for sure. You did a good job and you are right with the bags on who is going to notice. I do have an 08 which makes for a shorter belt than what you have. The information was on the site as to the correct OEM part number for the 136T but I failed to use the OEM and went with an aftermarket belt and sprocket purchased through Jennie. I had a choice I just chose poorly. I'm just going out on a limb here but after looking at the air bubbles on the Falcon there is no doubt that they could not all be manufactured the same way or they would all fail. Since this issue is so well discussed I do believe that anyone that compared them closely would notice. Apparently they have made changes as I'm sure you would have noticed it when you made the change. Allot of work on your part for piece of mind but then these bikes have a way of making us a little paranoid at times. I hope others take your lead.
Nice Job
Ray G.
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RayG,
As for the paint, it only messed up the drop out section. On the '09 and later the very rear of the swingarm is a cast section that is welded to the swingarm (at least that is what it looks like to me). I just taped off the main portion of the swingarm and painted the cast section. This may not be the answer if you don't have bags, but with bags you can't tell AT ALL!! As a matter a fact, my wife came out when my swingarm was sitting on my bench after I painted it, and asked if the whole thing got painted.
As for the Drag belt I took off, hell I have no idea how long it will last somebody. Some people have been running them with no problem. It will make a good backup for somebody. I looked pretty close when I took it off, because I was curious if I would see anything. To the naked eye, I didn't see anything.
Is your bike an '08? I am not even sure if modifying the swingarm on your year will work, totally different swingarm. I just know that I feel much better now that I have the OEM belt back on my bike.
Now don't laugh, my gusset is much bulkier than Steve's, but I wanted to have a lot of support, all the way up to supporting the shock mount.
Good job!
SG
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Does the "gusset mod" leave plenty of room for belt adjustment later?
BMac
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Well, you can grind as much of the axle slot as you want, making for more adjustment, but also making the back wall thinner. I do not know how much a belt stretches over a lifetime, anybody??
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I have done the modification [thanks for the idea Steve] and works great I milled mine instead of grinding, the biggest problem I have is adjusting the belt, my axle wrench no longer will fit [interferes with the shock mount] If on the road this will be difficult without removing muffler there is no room to get on the nut except with a open end wrench. jmho
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Mule,
My way may not be the correct way, comes from years of dirt biking. I have the shocks disconnected, then I can check the belt with full range of motion of the swingarm, check for tight spots. I use a 36mm socket on one side and 1-x/x on the other (can't remember). I have never had to adjust my belt when out on the road.
Your wrench hits the shock mount? I am having trouble pictuing it that.
As for milling the axle slot, man that is awesome! It was very easy to grind, but if you could set it up on a machine and do it that way would be real cool. Do you know exactly how much you took off?
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I have no problem adjusting at home with a lift I was refering to when I am on the road. I actually had to grind down part of the shock mount to get the cam adjuster to clear the shock mount for adjustments I made the slot .215 longer.
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Talked to my HD Mechanix about this mod for better gearing and he does not beleive in changing from the stock belt.
He's done this EVO 49 tooth ring gear change directly at the engine output at least a dozen times and said everyone's been happy with it. So, that's the way I'll go on mine too, keeping stock belt and all.
http://evoindusa.com/mtrcycle/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10&products_id=23
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Talked to my HD Mechanix about this mod for better gearing and he does not beleive in changing from the stock belt.
He's done this EVO 49 tooth ring gear change directly at the engine output at least a dozen times and said everyone's been happy with it. So, that's the way I'll go on mine too, keeping stock belt and all.
http://evoindusa.com/mtrcycle/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10&products_id=23
:confused5:
OK, This obviously means you read the write up that you attached........and realize that to go that way, you're eliminating the use of your 6th gear lite (who really cares)......BUT, you're also eliminating usage of your cruise control. :oops:
Had it not been for that, I may have also gone that way. But I didn't wanna lose the "cruise"..........which I did not via the 30T trans sprocket. :cherry:
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:confused5:
OK, This obviously means you read the write up that you attached........and realize that to go that way, you're eliminating the use of your 6th gear lite (who really cares)......BUT, you're also eliminating usage of your cruise control. :oops:
Had it not been for that, I may have also gone that way. But I didn't wanna lose the "cruise"..........which I did not via the 30T trans sprocket. :cherry:
He said I will NOT loose "cruise" like mentionned on the specs sheet, he's done it on many other FLHT so far and he's able to recover cruise ( something to do with the programming), but for the "6th gear Light" he said most HD riders should know how to count up to six !!
Also I asked about the whining sound that someone mentionned and he said this has never been an issue on the bikes he's done, it's simply replacing an internal 46 tooth gear and chain by a similar 49 tooth gear and chain.
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After 8000 miles on the 2nd . Falcon belt , I finally did the swing arm mod thatni should have done over the winter and reinstalled the Harley drive belt, I was suprised it lasted this long, first one died much sooner, whew, glad that's over Only took 4 hrs for everything
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After 8000 miles on the 2nd . Falcon belt , I finally did the swing arm mod thatni should have done over the winter and reinstalled the Harley drive belt, I was suprised it lasted this long, first one died much sooner, whew, glad that's over Only took 4 hrs for everything
:worthless:
Post up Tim!
SG
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This is the one I did for a 2010 Limited because of "trailer duty" in the summer.
Gotta say with the 30t, TTS tune (thanks to Steve) 54 cams, this bike runs awesome!
:2vrolijk_21:
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This is the one I did for a 2010 Limited because of "trailer duty" in the summer.
Gotta say with the 30t, TTS tune (thanks to Steve) 54 cams, this bike runs awesome!
:2vrolijk_21:
Mike, you holdin out on us? I didn't know you were doing swingarm mods. How much?
SG
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Mike, you holdin out on us? I didn't know you were doing swingarm mods. How much?
SG
I'm NOT, this is my personal bike!
;D
I'll do the same mod for you for $400.00, minus your 10% discount! You supply the parts! LOL
8)
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I'm NOT, this is my personal bike!
;D
I'll do the same mod for you for $400.00, minus your 10% discount! You supply the parts! LOL
8)
When the world record holder for most miles on a Falcon belt gives up and goes back to a stock belt, what's that telling us? :nixweiss:
SG
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I wasn't giving up my 30 th pulley on my 120/120 Hillside 107 build, I used 3/8" round stock, ground flat underneath to sit better on the swing arm end. Just weld to attach a end, of round stock to upper swing arm then bend it to follow contour of swing arm end around and weld it the bottom. To make a wider brace , then mig welded it, on all four sides, Used 1/4 " plate welded to where the stock plates were ensuring they were square, for the adjusting cams to push against evenly, I used a single cut burr for grinding the axle slots .220" Also had to relieve the shock mount bolt hole for clearance, I didnt take pics during the process, due to the 100 plus temps, just wanted it done!! , but it's a very easy. Mod to do But then I was a nuc. welder for 21 yrs in the navy,
thanks to Steve for the idea!!!! ,
I was orginally going to just weld build up the end of swing arm then grind it to shape,vice the gussett this is easier and quicker, Now when running days/weeks on the road, away from home I feel easier about replacing a belt that dealer has in stock and is stronger
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another pic showing round stock
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If anyone is lookin to do this and needs the gussets.. I have some that I cut on CNC and will ship 4 pcs ( 2 gussets and 2 spacers) for 20.00 .. these are from 1/4 material . Thanx
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Really!!! You are a couple month's to late!!! :'( That just really makes this a no brainer now!! Nice Job :2vrolijk_21:
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Hey,
I really don't want to go through the mod if I absolutely don't have to! I have the Falcon belt on my bike right now, I bought the Gates belt a couple of months ago and plan to put that on. I only ride about 6-8 thousand miles a season, one up never a passenger. I haven't read of anyone having problems with the Gates belt which is the same as the stock belt?
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Rio.. I jus gotta ask.. why would you go through puttin on an inferior belt , and yet not got go ahead and do the mod ?? not to mention if ya get out and snap a belt and have to replace with something other than the readily available OEM belt .. not trashin here .. jusaskin.. Thanx you also have a PM ..
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:confused5:
I'm gonna help out Rio with an answer for ya.............Those of us that made the swap to a 30T sprocket, and found out the stock belt would not fit, (at the time) did NOT necessarily have the feedback that the replacement (shorter) belt was not of the same quality as the HD belt........(Which HD does NOT make).
So the "drill" seems to be that perhaps Gates makes the stock belts for Harley and the one that Rio got and that I have from (Drag Specialties) was made by Falcon and has been shown (by some) to not last as long.
I agree that this makes the situation..........(problematic) in that a breakdown on the road could be extra painful as the local dealers might likely not have a belt to fit.
My last two Vettes had no spare tire and a flat would have been a problem also...........although my last one had "run flats" on it. So, I'm gonna keep riding and hoping NOT to have a belt problem and I assume Rio is in the same boat.
If and/or when that problem surfaces for me, I will than assess the swing arm mod and a return to the "stock" belt setup. Until then, I'm just in an "ignorance is bliss" kinda deal and I just ride on.............................. :drink:
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If anyone is lookin to do this and needs the gussets.. I have some that I cut on CNC and will ship 4 pcs ( 2 gussets and 2 spacers) for 20.00 .. these are from 1/4 material . Thanx
NOW he tells me.........
Took me an hour to torch out the parts and grind them smooth!! I used 3/8th cause that's what I had on top of the scrap pile!
:oops:
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:confused5:
I'm gonna help out Rio with an answer for ya.............Those of us that made the swap to a 30T sprocket, and found out the stock belt would not fit, (at the time) did NOT necessarily have the feedback that the replacement (shorter) belt was not of the same quality as the HD belt........(Which HD does NOT make).
So the "drill" seems to be that perhaps Gates makes the stock belts for Harley and the one that Rio got and that I have from (Drag Specialties) was made by Falcon and has been shown (by some) to not last as long.
I agree that this makes the situation..........(problematic) in that a breakdown on the road could be extra painful as the local dealers might likely not have a belt to fit.
My last two Vettes had no spare tire and a flat would have been a problem also...........although my last one had "run flats" on it. So, I'm gonna keep riding and hoping NOT to have a belt problem and I assume Rio is in the same boat.
If and/or when that problem surfaces for me, I will than assess the swing arm mod and a return to the "stock" belt setup. Until then, I'm just in an "ignorance is bliss" kinda deal and I just ride on.............................. :drink:
We DO have a couple local guys running the Drag belt, and they are aware of a "potential" issue. I have a spare belt for just such time as we need one.
I actually got pretty good service on my Drag belt, touring AND pulling my trailer, 2-up.
8)
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Rio.. I jus gotta ask.. why would you go through puttin on an inferior belt , and yet not got go ahead and do the mod ?? not to mention if ya get out and snap a belt and have to replace with something other than the readily available OEM belt .. not trashin here .. jusaskin.. Thanx you also have a PM ..
Not sure how to answer that other than I don't really want to modify the swing arm and put the stock belt back on. Not sure what the difference would be? If Gates makes the HD stock belt and it's the same or similar quality, its shorter to make the adjustment for the sprocket, whats the difference? I understand the Falcon belt problem, but I have been following this topic and I can't recall anyone complaining about the Gates belt? I bought the bike from a member with the Andrews sprocket and the Falcon belt, not sure if I would have ever made this mod, probably would have looked for a cam solution instead?
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Talked to my HD Mechanix about this mod for better gearing and he does not beleive in changing from the stock belt.
He's done this EVO 49 tooth ring gear change directly at the engine output at least a dozen times and said everyone's been happy with it. So, that's the way I'll go on mine too, keeping stock belt and all.
http://evoindusa.com/mtrcycle/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10&products_id=23
Hey how about update, How did it go?
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I have a Drag Specialties belt for sale if anybody wants a backup
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:nixweiss:
"We DO have a couple local guys running the Drag belt, and they are aware of a "potential" issue. I have a spare belt for just such time as we need one"
:confused5: Just (how) would you carry around a "spare belt"..........for just such times as needed. ??
The belt is too long to go into a Tour Pak and from every thing I've heard, you are not supposed to bend one of them such as would be required to fit one into a saddle bag and/or a Tour Pak.............
So....................Do ya bring along the belt in a car or truck following the bikes or what. :drink:
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Well I guess I will get the idiot of the year award. I decided t do this mod and did my research and made a chit load of errors. I managed to find a slightly used andrews sprocket that was ..... ah ok. Next i didn't check into it enough and purchased a Buell 139 belt and when I opened the box I realized it was not wide enough. Wait it gets worse. I then found a guy that had a 139 belt one inch wide and bought it from him. When I got that form him it came twisted up in a box and it is a falcon belt......... Now i DON'T know what to do. I have already spent to much money on belts and don't know what to do next. I am now thinking of the swing arm mod but I am budgeted out......
I'm pissed, angry & mad at myself for starting this project....
Sorry for the wining...
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I don't remember the belt number or where I got it from, but someone recommended a belt that worked, or at least similar quality to the stock belt. I replaced the drag specialties piece of crap that was installed with the sprocket when I got the bike. I have about 7,000 miles on this belt, I check it every time I clean the bike, and the belt has absolutely no signs of stress or unusual wear. I know adjusting the swing arm costs about the same to do the mod, I opted to go with the belt in the event me or someone I may sell the bike to at a later date decided to go back to the stock set up. If you dig around, you can find the name and part number for this belt. No worries, I've paid for something two or three times too before I got it right. Usually mufflers, this time......a good tune
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Gates 139 Inch belt I have 48,000 miles still looks new
Thanks.....couldn't remember. Thats good to know though! :bananarock:
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MotoMummy.com has a plug and play sensor to recalibrate speedo. Even has a program to help calculate the percentage..... I am going with the Triglide pulley 30t and welding gusset on mine so I keep stock belt..... Anyone know if the gear change will mess up my custom dyno'd map? I know it will change speedo by 5 miles an hour...
2010 SG
107 Fuel Moto
118hp/115tq
200/55/18 rear
Stage II heads
Vance and Hines ProPipe 2-1
777 woods
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MotoMummy.com has a plug and play sensor to recalibrate speedo. Even has a program to help calculate the percentage..... I am going with the Triglide pulley 30t and welding gusset on mine so I keep stock belt..... Anyone know if the gear change will mess up my custom dyno'd map? I know it will change speedo by 5 miles an hour...
2010 SG
107 Fuel Moto
118hp/115tq
200/55/18 rear
Stage II heads
Vance and Hines ProPipe 2-1
777 woods
If your using TTS, recalibrating the speedo is pretty easy. Nothing will change in your fuel map.
Welcome to the forum.
SG
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Just Got my Trike trans pulley and gasket.... Now the fun begins.....Gonna reuse old/stock belt... I already have a trans nut socket that I made out of a deep socket that I cut then welded it back together with a piece of pipe in between so it's like 8" long. saved me a hundred bucks or so.... I am gonna weld and grind my axle slots... think it's the simplest and cheapest way....
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I have just made this modification with a pulley Andrews 30t thanks to this comment and I shall like sharing with you.(http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=52&u=15994385)
I do not manage to put several photos
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une autre photo.
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une autre photo.
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une autre photo.
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I'd like to put a 31T pulley on my 2011 Street Glide, but am having reservations due to all these belt breaking threads.
Since I'd only be going 1 tooth smaller (31T from 32T), can anyone confirm if the stock HD belt that came with the bike will work?
If not, is anyone presently offering a swing arm mod/exchange?
Thanks
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Read on, there is a belt that several people have had no issue with breaking. You can also do the modification too!
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Read on, there is a belt that several people have had no issue with breaking. You can also do the modification too!
Yea, after reading all the posts, I'm kinda leaning towards the swing arm mod.
Is anyone offering an exchange?
Thanks
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I had this conversion performed on my 2012 SESG. Used Steve's mod, HD trike pulley, and ordered gussets from barefoot. Rode 140 miles yesterday. Love everything about this mod. Just incredible.
Thanks to Steve for starting this post and everyone for their input.
Rick
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Greetings All
looking to preform the 30T mod on a CVO Breakout
I am lead to believe the CVO Breakout has the following fitted standard
32 Tooth Front Pulley
66 Tooth Rear Pulley
24mm Belt with 132 Teeth
can anybody confirm this & has anybody done this mod on a CVO Breakout as yet & if so what parts did they use
regards
Rod
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Greetings All
looking to preform the 30T mod on a CVO Breakout
I am lead to believe the CVO Breakout has the following fitted standard
32 Tooth Front Pulley
66 Tooth Rear Pulley
24mm Belt with 132 Teeth
can anybody confirm this & has anybody done this mod on a CVO Breakout as yet & if so what parts did they use
regards
Rod
According to the part numbers the front pulley is the same on the breakout as the touring bikes. the breakout belt is 1/16th narrower than the touring bikes. the rear pulley on the breakout is a 66tooth where as the touring bike is a 68tooth. the tri glide pulley should be just a swap out for you but don't know it your belt would work with it or not. Some of the belt experts might chime in.
Smkblwr
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According to the part numbers the front pulley is the same on the breakout as the touring bikes. the breakout belt is 1/16th narrower than the touring bikes. the rear pulley on the breakout is a 66tooth where as the touring bike is a 68tooth. the tri glide pulley should be just a swap out for you but don't know it your belt would work with it or not. Some of the belt experts might chime in.
Smkblwr
would it be worth me changing the front & rear pulley to the touring bike version & running 30 & 68 or would that be a to big of a change
keep in mind that our speed limits here are 110 Kmh not Miles
I will put a set of pipes & tuner on it with the first service
regards
Rod
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There is another option. 49 tooth clutch gear from Evo Industries.
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Also forgot to ask, can the calibration of the speedo be re-set with the Screemin Eagle Race Tuner or do I need to run a different tuner to be able to fix the speedo
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i heard you need TTS for speedo recal
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i heard you need TTS for speedo recal
Power Vision will, as well.
I don't think SEPST (or the new V&H FP3) will update the speedo calibration.
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i heard you need TTS for speedo recal
is there any other way around this with the SERT or can the dealer re-flash the PCM to re calibrate the speedo before I fit the tuner, I want to keep the SERT as the dealer will maintain my warranty with it
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Seems like I remember $100 upgrade to TTS some time ago but don't know if that is still available. But then this Rooster has to wear readers. :bananarock:
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Rooster that was on the older "race tuners", which were made by TTS, the new ones are made by someone else.
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Rooster that was on the older "race tuners", which were made by TTS, the new ones are made by someone else.
Ok so what tuners will allow me to fix the Speedo correction, Allow the Cruise Control to operate & fix the Sixth Gear indicator light
regards
Rod
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:-\
I went with the 30T swap on my '09 SE Ultra. The end result did (not) effect the cruise control nor the sixth gear light as both continued to work OK. I just lived with the speedo error and didn't worry about it. :nixweiss:
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Rooster that was on the older "race tuners", which were made by TTS, the new ones are made by someone else.
Does that mean older than my 07? Or am I in the older category ?
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Rooster, the older race tuners look like the TTS interface boxs but were black. Can't remember what yr HD started making there own, Mine for my 2010 Ultra is orange and look different which is the HD made one.
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Steve, The 1 tooth shorter belt HD/PN-40056-07 i am running now. Should i be worried about breakage with this belt? It's hooked up to a 120r. 07 FLHTCUSE2 30/66
It's my understanding that the belt drives are very strong and even as strong as a chain. HOWEVER, if the belt were to pull harder in one side of the belt (like if the rear tire were to be flexed or tweeked under heavy load) that is what tears a belt.
Belt drives are used on dynamometers with no problems, also stump grinders like the turbo diesel Raco that puts out over 700 ft lbs. no problems, but once again these are belts that are in line with bearings, not bushings or suspension components.
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That being said you should be fine as long as your belt stays inline.
Also let's think about this when a belt tears it's usually between burnout gears, not steady pull on highway.
Just a thought I would like others to chime in with there broken belt stories.
Me personally I have not broken a belt, and I'm doing rolling burn outs wheelies and numerous other stupid clutch destroying things. How ever I don't have a bagger and not much weight is on the back tire. Also the engine trans and drive line move with the engine. It's not a wheel mounted to a frame.
Some food for thought.
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TTS will recalibrate what ever gear you put in, so will others, I only have experience with TTS on the recall.
The only time it messes with the light is if you change ratios in the primary. Other than that changing ratio outside of that won't make a difference to the light.
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I am getting ready to do the swing arm mod , I have the gussets from a member here , and a welder lined up , but I am having trouble getting the swing arm off. , I ride a 2013 street glide.
I have a service manual I am following the steps to get the swing arm off, the manual says to hold left side hex spacer and remove right side screw then take a drift pin and tap the pivot shaft out if the left side. The problem I am having is the left side bolt came out and the right side stayed tight. How do I get the right side loose ? Or can I just take the pivot shaft out the right side ?
Any help is greatly appreciated
Chris
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I am getting ready to do the swing arm mod , I have the gussets from a member here , and a welder lined up , but I am having trouble getting the swing arm off. , I ride a 2013 street glide.
I have a service manual I am following the steps to get the swing arm off, the manual says to hold left side hex spacer and remove right side screw then take a drift pin and tap the pivot shaft out if the left side. The problem I am having is the left side bolt came out and the right side stayed tight. How do I get the right side loose ? Or can I just take the pivot shaft out the right side ?
Any help is greatly appreciated
Chris
Wont go out the right side. Double nut the left side of the shaft to hold it while removing the right side nut.
With out doubt, one of Harleys weaker design moments.
Steve
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Thanks , got it out. Welding the swing arm today. Hopefully get the 30t on tomorrow.
Thanks for the help.
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TTS will recalibrate what ever gear you put in, so will others, I only have experience with TTS on the recall.
The only time it messes with the light is if you change ratios in the primary. Other than that changing ratio outside of that won't make a difference to the light.
Is this something that can be adjusted through the TTS?
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TTS allows you to adjust BOTH the primary ratio and /or the speedo.
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hey guys I was reading through some of this posts .. and kind of confused.
what is the gain with this mode 30T comparing to stock bike.
rpm increase?
speed increase?
gas goes up? how much?
bike runs with lower rpm? etc... can someone explain this tnx.
I have cvo rk 2014 what would I gain (got dragula exhaust, gmr 577, TTS... 110hp, 125tq)
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This change lowers the final drive ratio thus increasing your RPM's at any given speed. The big benefit is it makes 6th gear much more useable.
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OK I got mine done so now how can I correct my speedo. I have Power Commander 5.
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This change lowers the final drive ratio thus increasing your RPM's at any given speed. The big benefit is it makes 6th gear much more useable.
So also means bike will be quicker from start, also there will be a significant usage of gas too.
Since i don't have option for welding is there any Co. that makes belts that would go with 30T pulley.
tnx
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jus bumpin this thread up as this is a good time of year to do this mod .. and BTW .. I still have the gussets available ..lol
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Is there any easy way to replace the belt or any trick to know because I know it's a pretty hard job to do?
I've read somewhere that you can do it without removing completely the swing arm.
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So also means bike will be quicker from start, also there will be a significant usage of gas too.
Since i don't have option for welding is there any Co. that makes belts that would go with 30T pulley.
tnx
:drink:
Yes, the bike will be quicker (and easier to get moving) with the 30T swap. The gas usage difference is fairly insignificant in most cases unless you're planning several coast to coast runs. Yes, belts (129T as I recall) are available to make the 30T work. The problem is that many have experienced "belt failures" with these non-stock belts that are NOT available from Harley...............thus the (welding using gussetts trick) is used by some to retain use of the "stock" `130T genuine Harley belt.
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wow ! it's still going!!!!
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Stock belt is 140 teeth, the aftermarket belt is 139. This is not a big job, any local welding shop should be able to knock it out in short time. Best improvement you can do, IMO, all 07 up FLH's types are geared way to high. There is likely an independent close by that can do the whole job. twinotter
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:oops:
Yup, I was off ten teeth in my previous post. The stock is indeed 140T and the needed belt for many after the conversion is 139T and thus the non H.D. Belt. :nixweiss:
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Mine lasted 600 miles. It broke at 15mph.
Mine lasted less than 300 miles.
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If anyone is lookin to do this and needs the gussets.. I have some that I cut on CNC and will ship 4 pcs ( 2 gussets and 2 spacers) for 20.00 .. these are from 1/4 material . Thanx
Barefoot;
You still have a set of gussets and spacers availble?
Let me know.
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If anyone is lookin to do this and needs the gussets.. I have some that I cut on CNC and will ship 4 pcs ( 2 gussets and 2 spacers) for 20.00 .. these are from 1/4 material . Thanx
Barefoot;
You still have a set of gussets and spacers availble?
Let me know.
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:-\
Barefoot;
You still have a set of gussets and spacers availble?
Let me know.
:nixweiss:
Go back to page 6 of this posting series and "click" on Barefoots name on his avatar. This should bring up his profile and you can click there and send him a message which might get you a much quicker response. ::)
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I bought a 30T and new Falcon belt from Rob May back a few years ago and have never done the swap over. After I got the parts I read a LOT about the belt issues and I know how reliable the original stock belt is so I put a hold on the changes.
I can draw up the gussets in AutoCAD and have them cut on our water jet here at work, but for the price barefoot gets for his kits, it's not worth it to reinvent the wheel, so to speak.
So I'll be contacting barefoot about a kit and then I'll be doing the changeover.
Other than the primary gasket and fresh primary oil, are there any other gaskets or seals that I should replace while I'm in there?
I have the TTS Mastertune installed from Fullsac on my '09 SERG and I'll research the changes necessary for the speedo etc to get it back reading correctly.
Thanks for the help in advance.
Hope you all have a great weekend.
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Get rid of the Falcon belt get Gates belt you will be money ahead
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Get rid of the Falcon belt get Gates belt you will be money ahead
:nixweiss: So are ya saying that Gates makes a 1" wide X 139T belt. :confused5:
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Yes they do
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:nixweiss: So are ya saying that Gates makes a 1" wide X 139T belt. :confused5:
I knew they had one for the Sportster that's 139T, but I don't think it's usable on the touring bikes.
So what else do they use a 139T belt on that we can buy?
I think a lot of us would love to know the answer.
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Yes they do
:nixweiss:
So, exactly what is the part number for a Gates 1" 139T rear sprocket pulley belt for a Harley.
I checked some other sites regarding Gates and their belts and could not I.D. one that is 139T.
http://www.jpcycles.com/search/search?N=0&Ntt=gates%201%22%20139t&Ntk=All
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thanx ya'll .. on the way ..
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drive belts.com
PC 139-1
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If your doing the gussets and elongating the holes you use the stock belt ?
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If your doing the gussets and elongating the holes you use the stock belt ?
Yes...
I just ordered a gusset set yesterday from barefoot. I knew is was about 1/4" of grinding and Howard said that .2" is all that's necessary.
In his gusset kit there are a couple straight pieces and they get welded in for the cam adjusters to still work. I asked Howard that if I sold the bike and the stock 32T sprocket was back on, will the cams will work with the spacers welded in and he said yes.
I'm looking forward to not having to slip the clutch for parking lot cruising and stoplight take offs.
Thanks Howard for the quick service.
Have a great weekend ya'll...
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Dan, I'm thinking about doing the same thing. I'm taking mine for a check over tomorrow and may be needing the compensator replaced anyway. If I do, I'm going to have them go a little further and replace the pulley. I'll take care of the wheel adjustment myself. What is the pulley part number?
Keep us posted on how it works out!
Thanks!
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Dan, I'm thinking about doing the same thing. I'm taking mine for a check over tomorrow and may be needing the compensator replaced anyway. If I do, I'm going to have them go a little further and replace the pulley. I'll take care of the wheel adjustment myself. What is the pulley part number?
Keep us posted on how it works out!
Thanks!
Mine's and Andrews pulley so I'm not sure what the guys are using today. I heard that the Tri-Glide uses a 30T and that may be the pulley of choice now. I know it's wider than the touring pulley, but that's still not an issue in a touring model.
Again, anyone know what all gaskets or seals I might need?
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"I heard that the Tri-Glide uses a 30T and that may be the pulley of choice now. I know it's wider than the touring pulley, but that's still not an issue in a touring model."
:cherry: Yup, the Tri-Glide is indeed 30T (or at least it was 2 or 3 model years ago).......and that worked on my conversion when I had my '09 SE Ultra. It is a little wider, but that is no factor.
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I know this thread is a little old but I'm finally getting to the mod. My machinist wants to know how tall the slot in the swing arm is. I believe he is looking for the diameter of the hole to make sure that he has what he needs to mill the slot. I've looked everywhere for that information and come up dry. I'm trying to work this so the milling/welding can be done while the bike is in the shop for a compensator replace (same day) so the swing arm is still on the bike and the turnaround has to be quick.
Thanks!
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I did mine and what's important is to stay parallel with the swing arm shaft. Am my understanding you.
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I did mine and what's important is to stay parallel with the swing arm shaft. Am my understanding you.
He wants to keep everything aligned and cut the slot true. Apparently he needs the size of the hole to make sure he has the proper tool to cut it back the .20 I'm not a machinist so I'm just trying to get him the information. :nixweiss:
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Well let's put it this way, the rear axle is a 1" axle and adjust your clearance accordingly.
I used a new carbide cutter and did mine by hand. I believe the only way to use an end mill is to take the swing arm off, which I did NOT have to do. I think the majority of the mods have been done by hand on the bike.
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You'll have to also weld a piece of 1/4" key stock behind the axle cam adjuster stop on the swing arm. With the axle moved back you'll run out of cam to make your belt tight.
Also because the cam is now a bit further back, you'll have to relieve the rear shock mount boss to give clearance for the cam rotation upward.
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Don't forget the weld on gussets.
Here is the link to Barefoot's gusset for sale thread. It's a great deal and they include the gussets and the 1/4" key stock.
http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=76001.msg1039537#msg1039537 (http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=76001.msg1039537#msg1039537)
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Well, I had to take the bike in for the compensator replacement so I went ahead with the swing arm mod and did that on the technicians day off. SO, it went like this; The tech tore the bike down for the compensator replacement (Inner and outer primary) and pulled the swing arm. I picked the swing arm up and took care of the modification the next day while he was off and had it ready when he returned. Our plan was that I would pay for the additional labor and any parts involved. I already had the pulley and a new belt. Labor to change the swing arm and pulley ended up 4 times the inner/outer primary and compensator! When I questioned the labor, I was told that that's what they charge labor to replace a belt (I did have a new one put on just because). Changing a belt (from scratch) is another full primary tear down. Apparently, ESP paid and I paid too?
Now I realize that the flat rate is a little tight, and I have no problem sweetening the pot at tad, but come on! Service manager is out sick so I'll have to wait until next week to talk to him.
I did let them know that the bike has FIN, a GPS/cell anti theft device, that has been sending me emails and text each time the bike is moved. I know each time the bike is jostled or left still for 5 minutes. That pretty much gives me the time that it was being actively worked on and when, where, and what speed it was test driven. Nice thing to have! I also have the valve train tic back so I guess I'll need to check for a bent pushrod. Got to love it!!
Oh, BTW The gear was pretty good on the way home. I did try to shift one extra time on the interstate but it does seem to be livable. After this I'm just going to have to buy a nice lift table and be done with it!
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According to the Harley time code manual replacing the Comp is 2.4 hours and the belt (complete with inner outer\primary removal) is 3.4 hours. How is it that they charged you 4 times the amount of a comp replacement?
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According to the Harley time code manual replacing the Comp is 2.4 hours and the belt (complete with inner outer\primary removal) is 3.4 hours. How is it that they charged you 4 times the amount of a comp replacement?
From the receipt: Replace Com sprocket Parts were $411.05, Labor Code 4003, Book time .9, Mark up 1.13
Bill total for ESP $552.32
Replace swing arm for customer: Parts $13.94, Labor 3.78 $379
Bill total for swing arm $414
.9 or 1.13 vs 3.87 = $110.74 vs $379.26 labor for swing arm. Close to 4 times the labor of a complete inn/outer tear down to remove/replace a swing arm. Remember the primary etc. was already apart for the Comp replacement.
I did swing arm mod (welding machine work) on mechanics day off and had it ready so no down time for shop.
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From the receipt: Replace Com sprocket Parts were $411.05, Labor Code 4003, Book time .9, Mark up 1.13
Bill total for ESP $552.32
Replace swing arm for customer: Parts $13.94, Labor 3.78 $379
Bill total for swing arm $414
.9 or 1.13 vs 3.87 = $110.74 vs $379.26 labor for swing arm. Close to 4 times the labor of a complete inn/outer tear down to remove/replace a swing arm. Remember the primary etc. was already apart for the Comp replacement.
I did swing arm mod (welding machine work) on mechanics day off and had it ready so no down time for shop.
You need to have a serious conversation with the Service Manager and if necessary, the General Manager and Owner. I there is no satisfactory resolution loge a complaint with Harley Customer Service.
Wait 30 days and if no joy file a complaint with the consumer protectin agency.
This type of price gouging doesn't help the dealership reputation in the community.
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Hello, I made this modification 2 years ago on my 2007 FLHTCUSE2 when I had my belt replaced at 50000 miles I have now 30t front and 68t rear pulley and an other OEM belt and it was fine. Now I have 25000 miles with it and the problem is that I am at the maximum of the tensioner but the tension of the belt is not strong enough.
I would like to keep my belt I have seen that it exists some tensioner for sportster. Does anyone knows if there is a tensioner for touring model?
I know I could change the rear pulley for a bigger one but I like the way it is actualy.
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If you did the rear slot mod on the axle holes and welded in the lower/rear gusset, did you also add .25" square bar on the rear of the existing cam tensioner blocks? If you did not do this, the cam will run out of rearward travel before the belt is fully tensioned. Adding the extra square bar stock is a must do.
Also on mine, I found when I moved the cams all the way to the rear that they hit the shock mount lugs. I had to grind a bit of that away to give full access to the rear of the slot with the axle.
Check to make sure you have the "extra" .25" bar added and that the cams are not hitting the shock mount bosses.
Good luck.
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I didn't mod anything on the bike except the pulleys and the belt because the welded mod is for the 2009 and after. I read here that on 2007 model I just need to replace the front and rear pulleys and it was fine for at least 22 000 miles but now (25000) I am at the maximum of the adjustment but the belt is not tighten enough and jump on the pulley sometime.
That the reason why I would like to know if it exists a system to tighten the pulley like on some XR models.
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I didn't mod anything on the bike except the pulleys and the belt because the welded mod is for the 2009 and after. I read here that on 2007 model I just need to replace the front and rear pulleys and it was fine for at least 22 000 miles but now (25000) I am at the maximum of the adjustment but the belt is not tighten enough and jump on the pulley sometime.
That the reason why I would like to know if it exists a system to tighten the pulley like on some XR models.
That sounds reasonable I guess.
What were your original front/rear sprocket tooth count and what is your new tooth count front/rear?
Is there any more slot in the swingarm and are the cams just at their peak without bottoming out the axle in the slot?
Thanks and have a great afternoon.
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Thanks for your reply Dan.
I had 32t front and 66t rear and now 30t front and 68t rear. I am at the maximum of the possibility otherwise the axle's bolt will touch the rear shocks.
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On the '08 and newer, there were some belt options, like I believe a 139 versus the stock 141 belt. But the only manufacturer of the belt was Falcon and they did have some issues with them breaking.
I thought there may have been some other belt from a Sportster that would work on some of the older touring like yours.
Your original ratio was 2.0625 and your new one is 2.2666, but a 30t front with your original stock rear would get you 2.2 final drive ratio. That's about an 8% reduction, or bump in rpms at any given speed or gear.
You might look into what your original belt tooth count is and then see what "might" be available in a 2t less belt.
Like I said, on my '09 I had to grind down the rear shock mounts to give clearance for the axle cams to rotate to their full rear position. After that I had no issues, but again mine is an '09 not an '07.
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My belt is 137t 1 inch, same size than the sportster I have found 131 133 and 134t which could be too short. But anyway I want to first try a tensioner for the belt on the swing arm like they use on some supercross bikes because changing belt is a real PIA. I will tell you if it works.
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hey all been reading this and googling. i have 12 ultra now if i got the 30t and do the mod will i keep my 6th gear light and cruise? thanx
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On my '09, which I believe is the same as your '12, I have cruise and the 6th gear light. I did have to use my TTS tuner to change the speedo ratio number. I rode with the GPS and then tweaked it, than rode again and tweaked the second time an it's exactly equal to my GPS.
I know that on some of the other mods, the primary EVO kit, you may lose 6th or cruise. But mine has worked flawlessly.
Good luck with yours. It's well worth the hassle to do the mods. You'll love it.
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The Tri-Glide 30 Tooth pulley is a heavy little sucker has anyone tried to lighten it at all I am thinking along the lines of less rotating mass the better :)
Also does anybody know of a Chrome or Polished 70 Tooth rear pully that is similar the the wheel on a 2014 CVO Breakout
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On my '09, which I believe is the same as your '12, I have cruise and the 6th gear light. I did have to use my TTS tuner to change the speedo ratio number. I rode with the GPS and then tweaked it, than rode again and tweaked the second time an it's exactly equal to my GPS.
I know that on some of the other mods, the primary EVO kit, you may lose 6th or cruise. But mine has worked flawlessly.
Good luck with yours. It's well worth the hassle to do the mods. You'll love it.
kool thanx dan i hope to do it over winter if all goes well
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hey is there a certain year tri glide i have to ask for for the 30t? thanx
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I bought a new Falcon belt, 139t I believe and a used Andrews 30t sprocket.
Still have the new Falcon 139t belt if anyone is interested. No mods necessary, just the sprocket and the Falcon belt... ;D
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hey is there a certain year tri glide i have to ask for for the 30t? thanx
this should get you in the ball park: 2011 Tri Glide Trans Sprocket is HD P/N 83595-11
regards
Rod
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thanx rod now i got to start pricing it out soon
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thanx rod now i got to start pricing it out soon
your welcome
I bought mine through the Stealer but I am in Australia maybe you can get a better deal through a forum sponcer or one of the inde's
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Just wondering,..by moving the wheel back further, what's the affect on the brake pads in relation with the disc?
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Just wondering,..by moving the wheel back further, what's the affect on the brake pads in relation with the disc?
Axle is the center point.
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Don't know why
I was thinking 09 the caliper being fixed to the swing arm.
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after all the troubles... i installed a chain drive - no need to remove or mess with the swing arm, and zippers will provide almost any ratio you want. be certain to install the master link with the removable part to the INSIDE, that way everything clears. all done, no other mods, quiet, works.
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after all the troubles... i installed a chain drive - no need to remove or mess with the swing arm, and zippers will provide almost any ratio you want. be certain to install the master link with the removable part to the INSIDE, that way everything clears. all done, no other mods, quiet, works.
Timo, you've got me curious now.
I may be miss reading what you've said, it's happened before... :(
Two questions:
1. The chain is that close that the retainer snap will rub if not to the inside of the chain?
2. How do you access the master link with the retainer snap to the inside?
Thanks and have a great day!
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sorry for the late reply... the rivet master link can go one with the removable plate out, but the pins are longer on the clip master link so, i found i had to had the removable plate and the clip on the inside. it does not hit hard enough to do any damage, but it could eventually either cause the clip to fall off [bad] or clearance the primary on its own.. there is plenty of room to get at it on the inside so i just did that. it works really well.
the chain is about 1/16 wider than the stock 07 belt...