Topic: Tuners (Read 6298 times)

sharkbait · « **on:** August 17, 2015, 05:04:57 PM »

Hi everyone, new to this site, and a new Harley owner. I have a 2009 CVO Fat Bob with upgraded exhaust and a heavy breather. I'm not sure what brand the exhaust is, can't find it on the pipes, still looking into it. I need a tuner for it, any recommendations?

kojack · « **Reply #1 on:** August 17, 2015, 07:54:17 PM »

Fuel moto PC V. you will be covered for life then.

98fxstc · « **Reply #2 on:** August 17, 2015, 10:14:19 PM »

I would suggest TTS
but really ,you are better off enquiring about reputable dyno tuners in your area, or within reasonable travelling distance and asking what they use or recommend.
I have an 09 SE Fatbob and I am DIY tuning with TTS because I dont have access to a dyno tuner who knows his stuff

hd-dude · « **Reply #3 on:** August 17, 2015, 10:49:49 PM »

TTS is my preference but it is alway good to check with the person doing the tuning to see their preference. ( If the preference isn't the TTS then find another tuner)

litespeed1000 · « **Reply #4 on:** August 17, 2015, 11:22:48 PM »

I just installed the DynoJet Power Vision, Target Tune, Jackpot Stainless Steel Ceramic Coated Header/X-over from Fuel Moto with V&H 450 Titan slipon's on my 2015 Streetglide CVO. All I can say is throttle response is instant! No hesitation and it pulls like a freight train. Truly impressed with the wideband O2 Target Tune addition. Fuel Moto provided a special map that was flashed to the ecm with the Power Vision. Once flashed the Target Tuner takes over and real time adjusts for optimal AFR via Wideband 5 volt O2 sensors. Two

for Fuel Moto and Target Tune.

MrSurly · « **Reply #5 on:** August 17, 2015, 11:36:25 PM »

My vote is the Power Vision and I would strongly suggest buying from Fuel Moto. The free support and map access is priceless.

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ptnlinda · « **Reply #6 on:** August 18, 2015, 04:48:49 AM »

My vote is for a Thundermax. No need for Dynotune as it tunes as you ride. Had one on my 2008 Ultra and now one on my 2015 Limited. No problems and bike really gets up and goes now. Have Fuelmoto Jackpot pipes with CFR Mufflers and Thunder City Baffles.

GMR-PERFORMANCE · « **Reply #7 on:** August 18, 2015, 08:48:21 AM »

Well TTS, PV and PRO from hd all do a great job.. Do not get caught up in the hype and a free map ,

Choose a tuner that has the options you need. Then decide if you want to be a self tuner or not. There are tons of reasons for auto tuning that can cause it not work work correctly. I am not telling you what one to buy just be aware of some of the issue of a free tune in a box so to speak.

Good luck with your choice if you have a pro to tune it then speak with that person before buying a tuner.

kojack · « **Reply #8 on:** August 18, 2015, 09:29:17 AM »

Correct GMR. But for people who have no good tuners/dyno near by, I think fuel moto gets us closest to a spot on tune.

Unbalanced · « **Reply #9 on:** August 18, 2015, 09:39:13 AM »

I wouldn't count on that Kojack. Too many variables and tolerances that stack up. On top of that you have core shift and countless other things that play into it. Some of the bikes you wouldn't even want to ride it's that dramatic. Will they try and help sure they do, but for those looking to get close and no dyno guy I would suggest a twintec wego 3 and go from there.

GMR-PERFORMANCE · « **Reply #10 on:** August 18, 2015, 10:23:28 AM »

Not bashing but I would disagree on a spot on tune or for that fact even close. I get a large % of PV tunes and they are not even close , they have used the help desk ( so to speak) and after 3-5 times, of changing the tune then spending too much time on trying to tune it themselves I get it. Once tuned they are happy. I do understand the tuner issue ...not having one near you and for some yes it can be a issue.

So what you altered the bike spent the money to get it done right , Nothing wrong with a road trip..

kojack · « **Reply #11 on:** August 18, 2015, 11:12:56 AM »

Yes, but to get to a real tuner worth their weight in salt would be 500 miles, 7hrs on a ferry and then at least 500-800 more miles for me. That's just to far.

Sarhan · « **Reply #12 on:** August 18, 2015, 03:22:56 PM »

Quote from: litespeed1000 on August 17, 2015, 11:22:48 PM

I just installed the DynoJet Power Vision, Target Tune, Jackpot Stainless Steel Ceramic Coated Header/X-over from Fuel Moto with V&H 450 Titan slipon's on my 2015 Streetglide CVO. All I can say is throttle response is instant! No hesitation and it pulls like a freight train. Truly impressed with the wideband O2 Target Tune addition. Fuel Moto provided a special map that was flashed to the ecm with the Power Vision. Once flashed the Target Tuner takes over and real time adjusts for optimal AFR via Wideband 5 volt O2 sensors. Two for Fuel Moto and Target Tune.

Dose the target tune operates open loop ?? or it's closed loop only across the board

GMR-PERFORMANCE · « **Reply #13 on:** August 18, 2015, 03:29:40 PM »

target tune is open a wide band 02 sensor that you set the AFR to what you want.. SO its wide band auto tuning..

Sarhan · « **Reply #14 on:** August 18, 2015, 03:51:06 PM »

Thanks GMR

So the system will have influence on the VE's all the time to maintain the recommended AFR, did dynojet tested the system on diffrent sea level condition and/or fuel octane?

finn · « **Reply #15 on:** August 18, 2015, 05:12:05 PM »

on intake

Quote from: kojack on August 18, 2015, 11:12:56 AM

Yes, but to get to a real tuner worth their weight in salt would be 500 miles, 7hrs on a ferry and then at least 500-800 more miles for me. That's just to far.

I live in mlch rode south to Florida to see doc weaver, had my 2010 cvo convertible tuned, great experience had fun on the road and it was a pleasure to meet doc. ill post my numbers soon on intake,exhaust,and ecm. oh 2700 mi altogether.

MrSurly · « **Reply #16 on:** August 18, 2015, 05:39:38 PM »

Target Tune is a new item and from reading the blurb at DynoJet it appears that it "adapts" the signal from the wideband O2s and plugs them into the ECM such that the ECM runs closed-loop running the wideband O2s in real-time...

A lot more detail needed, but the implication is that rather than the way the 'Pro' system works (ride to log data, export the recommended changes, load the resulting tune, lather/rinse/repeat to see what changes are needed next), the new system's map, instead of being a list of changes to make to the signals, it will be a map of GOALs and the ECM will determine what corrections to make real time to meet those goals.

The Target Tune would appear to let you load a map and ride and it would use the widebands to make running real-time changes on the fly and you would only need to ride the silly thing.

It sounds like you wouldn't need to log/save/load...but would just load a map and ride.
must. learn. more.

I have no real info, just what I'm reading and i may have missed something...but it does sound intriguing.

hrdtail78 · « **Reply #17 on:** August 19, 2015, 02:01:59 PM »

Free maps. Yeah, the other tuning devices do that also, but you get to download them all at once and pick and choose what you want to do with them. You are not stuck receiving one at a time through email. The marketing might be better but that doesn't mean the calibration is. I wonder how many pro tuners out there actually use the starter cal?

Now enter Target Tune. Full time closed loop with WB sensors. How does it know if it is getting good sampling or bad sampling? Wash and repeat human interaction?

kojack · « **Reply #18 on:** August 19, 2015, 04:15:56 PM »

The thing with fuel moto is they have more tunes than Dynojet for any given motorcycle.

hd-dude · « **Reply #19 on:** August 19, 2015, 05:13:53 PM »

The new target Tune is basically the Revolution EMS system all over again. They put the ECM into a "development" Mode to utilize the input from a wide band system. This work ok on very basic builds ie pipes and air cleaner but not well at all on bigger builds with high overlap cams.

MrSurly · « **Reply #20 on:** August 20, 2015, 08:47:01 PM »

From reading Jamie and others who are in the development of this, (on ' other forums') apparently , no, it's not just like EMS and no, it shouldn't have any of those limitations. But I don't know...I'm just reading and trying to learn

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hd-dude · « **Reply #21 on:** August 20, 2015, 11:17:26 PM »

Marketing is a powerful tool......Time will tell if this will work but in the past it hasn't.

Masterblaster · « **Reply #22 on:** August 21, 2015, 12:33:03 AM »

Ive come to realize that tuning a bike can only be done by a competent tuner, everything else is a compromise. My other hobby is tactical long range shooting (makes the Harley hobby seem like a low cost hobby). After spending 6+ grand on a rifle and optics you have to do load development to get the rifle to shoot tight groups that let you do 10inch armor plate hits at 1200 yards, 0.1 grain of powder determines can determines a hit or miss (other factors also like wind). If you dont do load development the rifle might shoot well with store bought ammo or it might not, you will never know. Until recently I would ride back and forth from Miami to Dallas to get all my tuning done, I moved to Texas so its a closer ride now. I do this because I want ym bike running to the best of its capabilities with the combination of parts I put on it. You will have to be really lucky to get that with a canned map or a self tune.

kojack · « **Reply #23 on:** August 21, 2015, 05:11:55 AM »

Yes, acutally having your bike on a dyno and tuning it is the best way. But where I live, we have to make due with what we have.

hrdtail78 · « **Reply #24 on:** August 21, 2015, 11:56:03 AM »

Quote from: MrSurly on August 20, 2015, 08:47:01 PM

From reading Jamie and others who are in the development of this, (on ' other forums') apparently , no, it's not just like EMS and no, it shouldn't have any of those limitations. But I don't know...I'm just reading and trying to learn

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Marketing is powerful. I haven't read anything from people in the development of TT. The code has always been in the ECM. DJ hasn't done anything magical with this code besides trying to utilize what is already there. The advantage in the TT system over the RMS is DJ gives you some user interface ability.

DJ is not consistent with their tuning devices. In the vision you have the ability to turn off LTFT's because it can throw the whole tune off according to them. This is a constant suggestion when dealing with bad sampling with vision. Yet, with TT they make no way to do this. But the LTFT is set up the same for both systems. Another big one is how they approach collecting data with their AT100. With the PC5 they don't want you to rely on the WB's if it wants to make corrections over 20%. When asked about this they go into the tolerance of the sensor and what it can and can't do compared to what we want it to do. With TT they claim pulling in from over 40%. Then they talk about the remarkable speed of the sensors with TT. How did they speed up the sampling rate of the LSU sensor. They didn't.

Hopefully it turns out the way they want it to work, but I'll wait until others try it out and see how it goes.

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litespeed1000 · « **Reply #25 on:** August 24, 2015, 11:49:53 PM »

Quote from: Sarhan on August 18, 2015, 03:22:56 PM

Dose the target tune operates open loop ?? or it's closed loop only across the board

Closed loop

aauya · « **Reply #26 on:** August 25, 2015, 07:26:01 AM »

does anyone have a sert tune for a 2010 flhxse with race (open) exaust ACRs on ?? cant seen to find it in the list

MadCVORG · « **Reply #27 on:** August 25, 2015, 08:25:33 PM »

Can't stress the importance of having a tuner who knows a particular system, and who will be honest with you. If you find a good tuning technician, they'll let you know what they work best with. I got lucky--my technician knew the SERT best, so I changed from the T-max and went with the SERT. Glad I did.

Unbalanced · « **Reply #28 on:** August 26, 2015, 03:01:06 PM »

Quote from: aauya on August 25, 2015, 07:26:01 AM

does anyone have a sert tune for a 2010 flhxse with race (open) exaust ACRs on ?? cant seen to find it in the list

SERT hasn't been around for almost 8 years. You may mean SESPT ? SERT was produced by Steve Cole for Harley up till approx. 2007 then he went his own way with TTS. Harley switch companies and delivered the SESPT. I bring this up only so you might get what you really need over "SERT" which means different things to different folks.

Author Topic: Tuners (Read 6298 times)