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[North Star]

As some may know/remember, I had some engine work 2 years back at 30,000 miles by a local builder and tuner.

New pistons, rings, cylinders, valve job, Gaterman 1021 lifters, stock pushrods. Stock 255 cam was re-degreed -4, which is part of this package that this builder does. Heads and Throttle Body were "massaged" and cleaned up a bit- no real porting or decking of the heads. Then .030 head gaskets were installed. Oh yeah, had a Fullsac "B" pipe, but he thought it was too restrictive, so I installed a OEM catless headpipe, and had it ceramic coated. This was topped off with Rinehart 4" cans.

His Dyno showed 118 hp/135 tq. Now bear in mind he has an old Dynojet 100, which I now realize shows really high numbers- nothing intentional on his part I'm sure. Read on, but lesson learned- dyno numbers literally mean nothing when comparing one persons dyno numbers to another's done on a different dyno machine.

After a tune and a re-tune, I was fairly happy. A different bike compared to stock.

Still thought it was running a bit hot at idle, so while coming home from a road trip this July, I planned my route to stop by Pocono Mtn HD in Stroudsburg, PA, and have Dave Stoddart (formerly of JD's Cycle Works) do a clean up tune. I'm sure most of you have heard of him and his reputation.

I was surprised when my baseline runs only showed 90 hp/107 tq. That is like Stage I numbers.

After Dave worked his magic, I ended up with 95 hp/112 tq. Bike runs cooler with more seat-of-the-pants tq, and less throttle lag. I'm actually getting 20 miles more per tank too.

While I try to not get caught up in numbers, I just plain wasn't happy with the numbers. Dave assured me they are in line with what he sees, but since I have a bit of headwork and the thinner gaskets, etc, I thought I should be getting more. I do think Dave's dyno is conservative though.

I researched cams, and chose the TTS100. Dave also said I would pick up a bit with the Fullsac DX, so I ordered that as well.

I had the install done locally with a new oil pump, cam tensioner, cam bearings, S&S Premium lifters, and S&S adjustable pushrods. DX pipe is on too.

Picked it up today- rode it to work and back, so maybe 50 miles, all of it highway so I don't have a full impression yet.

First off, the sound is different with the DX, and I'm not sure I like it as compared to the OEM. I'll have to give this some time before I pass final judgement.

There is definitely more torque, but I don't think there is a night and day difference power wise. It seems like smooth power- turn the throttle a bit, and you don't even realize your up to 90 mph.

So I guess it's a bit early to say if all the $$ was worth it, but the most critical part of these mods is the re-tune. I'm going back to see Dave in early October, and I'm sure that will make a huge improvement.

I'll update my thoughts as time goes on.

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

Wonder why he is no longer working for himself?

[North Star]

Was wondering that as well. Just met the man the one time, so didnt want to ask. Im sure it wasnt due to a lack of business- maybe a lifestyle change kind of thing.

[HD Street Performance]

Dave is a good guy but not a miracle worker
The cam you chose is so close to what you had I would not expect any significant difference.

[North Star]

 I was kinda afraid of that- was also considering the Kury 24D or GMR 577 but dont know if I have enough compression or not and I didnt want to lose any low end tq.

See how it turns out after the tune I guess.

[North Star]

Im in PA. Dave tuned the bike today.

Im dissapointed. $400 for cams, $600 labour, $500 for a re-tune = only 5 more hp and 5 ft lbs more torque. Hardly worth the investment. Not to mention $530 for the Fullsac DX pipe that replaced my ceramic coated OEM pipe (catless).  And the curve is exactly the same as as it was with fhe re-degreed 255 cam and the OEM pipe!. 

Ill post the sheets when I get home but there is a torque dip between 2000-2500 rpms, where these TTS cams are supposed to shine. Dave said maybe its my Rineharts (2.25" baffles), but he also said they are supposed to perform well usually.

Im thinking the DX hurt it, or at least didnt help any. I wonder if the OEM crush pipe serves the purpose of restricting flow to the left side so the pipe acts more like a 2-1 which helps low end tq. I know everyone raves about it, but I wonder who has actually compared them back fo back with the OEM.

I dont know whats to blame but I learned an expensive lesson about throwing a bunch of money and parts on my bike.

[ACfixer]

I dont know whats to blame but I learned an expensive lesson about throwing a bunch of money and parts on my bike.

How do you think I felt when I bought a Fullsac DX ($500), some V&H Monsters ($725), an SEPST ($350) and paid some schmuck to "tune it" ($250) for a total of around $1,800 and I got 84/96? Yeah, ouch.

I finally got it straightened out by Steve George, but that cost me another $800... I'm not complaining about that part, that was money well spent... but I sure wish I would have gone that way from the get-go. Everyone here told me to, and I went my own way and paid the piper. 

I'm getting 96/113 on Steve's dyno and it runs awesome, so my next move is to ride the bike and enjoy it. I know you threw some money at it, but your ride is getting some decent numbers and to be honest you're in a territory now where it's going to take thousands to improve it any significant amount.... Just ride that thing! 

[North Star]

I got 99/117 corrected and at least I know the issue isnt the tune because Dave is one of the best. The first tune he did in Aug was a clean up tune on my SEPST map and this one he did from scratch with my TTS. Its not the numbers thats my issue since his Dyno shows less than most and Im not out for bragging rights. I have an issue with the torque dip when I am supposedly running a respectable exhaust system and a supposed LET cam. If I had CFRs or High Outputs Id expect that but I dont get why its like that. Also the curve looks just like my 255 that was re-degreed -4. I think my local builder may be right that the 255 done that way works well.

[Fullsac Performance]

Im in PA. Dave tuned the bike today.

Im dissapointed. $400 for cams, $600 labour, $500 for a re-tune = only 5 more hp and 5 ft lbs more torque. Hardly worth the investment. Not to mention $530 for the Fullsac DX pipe that replaced my ceramic coated OEM pipe (catless).  And the curve is exactly the same as as it was with fhe re-degreed 255 cam and the OEM pipe!. 

Ill post the sheets when I get home but there is a torque dip between 2000-2500 rpms, where these TTS cams are supposed to shine. Dave said maybe its my Rineharts (2.25" baffles), but he also said they are supposed to perform well usually.

Im thinking the DX hurt it, or at least didnt help any. I wonder if the OEM crush pipe serves the purpose of restricting flow to the left side so the pipe acts more like a 2-1 which helps low end tq. I know everyone raves about it, but I wonder who has actually compared them back fo back with the OEM.

I dont know whats to blame but I learned an expensive lesson about throwing a bunch of money and parts on my bike.

Dave is right. If your targeting bottom end power you have the wrong mufflers. The stock muffler body with a 1.75 or 2.0 baffle will improve your bottom end power substantially. Reduce a lot of unnecessary racket too.

Steve@fullsac.com

[North Star]

But in the same conversation, he said Rineharts perform ok. Like I said, they are not CFR's or High Outputs, so I would be surprised if they, on their own, could cause a dip.

[North Star]

This was my bike in August- SE Heavy Breather AC, OEM ceramic coated catless headpipe, Rineharts with Fullsac screens and one wrap of baffle wrap, SE 255 cams re-degreed (minus 4 degrees I think)

Red is pre-tune baseline, blue is after Dave's tune. Tuned with a SEPST- he used my existing map as a base map.

[North Star]

This is my bike today- SE Heavy Breather AC, Fullsac DX headpipe, Rineharts with the screens/baffle wrap removed, TTS 100 cams.

Tuned with my TTS Mastertune.

Red is my tuned run from August, and blue is post-tune with the above mods.

[hawgzilla]

I don't know what more you could expect out of that combo. As stated already, you will pick up a bit of the torque dip with smaller baffles, but I'm thinking you're just chasing after a pretty piece of paper. I bet the bike runs great and has great low end power--- just what the cams were designed for.

[CVO2FIXUP]

Pipes make such a huge difference. I tried a V&H pro pipe on my 2010 with head work and 10:5 to 1 comp and the bike ran like a total turd. Did not want to spend more $$ so I de chatted my stock pipe and bought a pair of Jack Pot slash cut slip,one and wha a difference. The tuner did not have to tune at all. The curve was perfect ( to my surprise) making 110/125 night and day with just a pipe swap.

  By the way, those jack pot slip ons were designed to work with the stock de catted pipe.  And they do, sound awesome to.

[Ridgerunr]

I doubt the Fullsac X is the culprit, you modified the muffs and RH's are not known for helping tourqe.  You can't have it all = low tq and high hp. Chasing numbers is costly and unless following a proven recipe, often disappointing. Your chart shows good low end tq, should be a fun ride, enjoy it.