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[ultracobbie]

I apologize if this has already been addressed but I couldn't find anything on it.  The 2017 mufflers are 1" shorter and the right muffler has a 2.5" inlet.  They pushed the cat back and made the inlet bigger.  It may be possible to push the left older muffler on all the way back to the back of the slider but some may have issues with it.  The answer?  We need to convince Fullsac Performance that there will be a market for a header pipe that will allow us to use 2016 and prior mufflers.  I'm sure there will be other muffler and pipe makers coming out with replacement pipes and mufflers by the end of October but who wants to have to buy all three components?  I talked to a guy that went to the Harley Dealer Show and he said that someone from Harley was bragging on the fact that people would have to buy Screamin Eagle exhaust parts until the aftermarket caught up.  Leave it to Harley to use 2 different size mufflers on the same bike.

[no clue]

If you use after market head pipes or mufflers on your M8, it will void the warranty. If a person feels there is no need for the warranty, they can do as they please.

[Mandrew13]

If you use after market head pipes or mufflers on your M8, it will void the warranty. If a person feels there is no need for the warranty, they can do as they please.

What? Where did you see that info published?

[skratch]

only sort of true.  it's been reported in several places, but the upshot is if the exhaust is not epa compliant the dealer is supposed to void the powertrain portion of the warranty.  obviously, if you change pipes and your infotainment craps out, they 'should' cover that.

but you can go aftermarket, as long as it is epa compliant.  and with the m8s being so new, not much, if anything, out there.  yet.

[gmeikle]

HDI or "International " mufflers have had different muffler diameters since 2007. Softails . Dynas and Touring platform

All to do with Euro 4 noise reduction apparently. Here in Australia we just pissed them off by fitting slip-ons with the same diameter baffles/exit holes.

( Oh , and exiting the ECM of "Active air and Active exhaust" by various means )

Is maybe this for the self same reason on the new 2017's ?

[acevtwin]

My "Connection" told me the same thing. Harley did this so you have to buy their Screamin Eagle slip on's if you want to change the exhaust right now. I have contacted Rinehart and they said they would have something by the end of October.

[wildinjun]

Vance and Hines has power duals and slip-ons on there site for 17's. Shipping November 2016

[CVOStreetglide]

My "Connection" told me the same thing. Harley did this so you have to buy their Screamin Eagle slip on's if you want to change the exhaust right now. I have contacted Rinehart and they said they would have something by the end of October.

They'll have lots of the new exhaust at Daytona Biketoberfest.    

[MrSurly]

Harley did this so you have to buy their Screamin Eagle slip on's if you want to change the exhaust right now.

When I read stuff like this I want to just scream. Do you honestly believe that the MoCo "did this" for the sole purpose of "forcing you" to buy their accessories?
It couldn't have been to accommodate EPA mandated systems? I thought the conspiracy was supposed to be that the MoCo always did everything to 'save every penny'... But they spent no doubt a pile of extra money designing a whole new exhaust system.... Just to corner the slip-on market for three months?
What grade are you in, man?

I think they've made a considerable effort at keeping the product viable despite its vintage limitations. I wish I could afford a new one because I think I'd buy one of these new smoothies in a heartbeat .


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[KC2GIW]

When I read stuff like this I want to just scream. Do you honestly believe that the MoCo "did this" for the sole purpose of "forcing you" to buy their accessories?
It couldn't have been to accommodate EPA mandated systems? I thought the conspiracy was supposed to be that the MoCo always did everything to 'save every penny'... But they spent no doubt a pile of extra money designing a whole new exhaust system.... Just to corner the slip-on market for three months?
What grade are you in, man?

I think they've made a considerable effort at keeping the product viable despite its vintage limitations. I wish I could afford a new one because I think I'd buy one of these new smoothies in a heartbeat .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This.

[MrSurly]

Quote: "I suppose you think that Harley picks the most comfortable seat they can find so you won't have to change it the minute you get it home? Everything they do is for a reason. Wake up."

Everything they do fit-wise is necessarily a compromise. It isn't possible to make a seat or bars or any dimension of the bike be correct for everyone. I HATED the seat on my RK and LOVED the Hammock on the Ultra. The fact is that the mothership doesn't even offer much in the way of seat choices, that's pretty much an aftermarket niche, fueling no profit for the MoCo. If you were to poll HD owners, you'd likely find that 80% are running their stock seat. Everyone has their own tastes and yeah, the MoCo messes up a lot, it seems. What hangs me up, though, is when people claim there's a *conspiracy* by Harley to prey upon their customers and 'force' them to spend more money. I don't buy it.
The naysayers (who buy, bitch,and buy again) insist they've been targeted but I'm just enjoying the ride.
If you *truly* believed the manufacturer was actively plotting against their customers.... why in the world would you BE one?

[no clue]

If you as a customer think Harley is " plotting" against you. Simple solution. Don't buy a Harley, find another manufacture.  The larger outlet on the right pipe may be due to the cat relocation.
Come Biketoberfest there will be new items for the M8 from the aftermarket manufactures.

[glens]

only sort of true.  it's been reported in several places, but the upshot is if the exhaust is not epa compliant the dealer is supposed to void the powertrain portion of the warranty.  obviously, if you change pipes and your infotainment craps out, they 'should' cover that.

but you can go aftermarket, as long as it is epa compliant.  and with the m8s being so new, not much, if anything, out there.  yet.

Harley just had a run-in with the EPA.  It has been mandated by the government, as part of the settlement, that for '16 and newer bikes, if any modifications to the powertrain are made, and they're not EPA-compliant, then Harley must not honor any warranty claims on that powertrain.  They cannot warranty such a situation or they will be defaulting on the settlement.

There are never going to be any aftermarket parts (aside from maybe cat-back exhaust - mufflers) that will be EPA-compliant since to become compliant the whole package has to be certified.  The only such packages are Harley stage kits, and they must be used in their entirety to maintain certification status.  And this includes the specific ECM calibration.

There's no way an exhaust, or intake, or cam manufacturer is going to spend the time and money to get any kind of certification from the EPA.  It's just not feasible.

So unless one uses the complete H-D stage kit, with ECM calibration and all, to modify their powertrain, or unless they do otherwise and can completely cover their tracks, anything that might happen to the engine is going to be on their own dime.  The Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act will not be able to come to anyone's aid once there have been non-compliant modifications made to the way the engine produces power.  And frankly, that's the way it should be anyway.  If I were making and selling a motorcycle I would not want to warranty the engine "regardless what the purchaser might have done to modify it."  I would only feel obliged if they'd left it the way it was when I made it.

[JC]

Warrantors cannot require that only branded parts be used with the product in order to retain the warranty.[7] This is commonly referred to as the "tie-in sales" provisions,[8]

[no clue]

Warrantors cannot require that only branded parts be used with the product in order to retain the warranty.[7] This is commonly referred to as the "tie-in sales" provisions,[8]

This has been stated many times. If you use non EPA complaint parts on the M8 motor,  Harley does not and is not required to warranty the motor. These after market parts are illegal to use on a street legal motorcycle. Bud sold EPA approved mufflers, didn't go over very well.  You can do anything you want to the M8 motor using aftermarket parts. If it breaks, don't  except Harley to fix it.

[FLSTFI Dave]

This has been stated many times. If you use non EPA complaint parts on the M8 motor,  Harley does not and is not required to warranty the motor. These after market parts are illegal to use on a street legal motorcycle. Bud sold EPA approved mufflers, didn't go over very well.  You can do anything you want to the M8 motor using aftermarket parts. If it breaks, don't  except Harley to fix it.

Actually, they would have to show that the after market exhaust is why the cam failed to not cover it.  Most dealers are paranoid right now due to the suit with the EPA.

However the warranty can not be voided unless what was changed could be what caused the problem.  You will have more issues with an ESP than the MoCo

[JC]

This has been stated many times. If you use non EPA complaint parts on the M8 motor,  Harley does not and is not required to warranty the motor. These after market parts are illegal to use on a street legal motorcycle. Bud sold EPA approved mufflers, didn't go over very well.  You can do anything you want to the M8 motor using aftermarket parts. If it breaks, don't  except Harley to fix it.

That is actually a quote from the Magnum moss warranty act not me.

[glens]

The Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act doesn't have anything to do with using aftermarket performance parts.  It's about normal maintenance items.  And in any event, you really need to read the "Consent Decree".  Google that term, Harley, and "Civil Action No. 16-1687".  I'm sure you'll be able to find a copy of it.

It is and has been against the law to modify any emission-controlled product such that it no longer meets certification.  If you do so, especially now with this District Court decree, to a new Harley Davidson motorcycle, you will have no big brother to complain to when your warranty on the entire powertrain is denied.  It has always been wrong for you to claim warranty on an oil pump, crankshaft, or whatever once you've modified the product to produce more power or to run differently in any way, anyway.  The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act was always about protecting the consumer against arbitrarily ambiguous or underhanded warranties, and against tie-in to using only specifically-branded oils, spark plugs, oil filters, etc.  It was never about making the manufacturer fix something that broke because you made it happen by overstressing components via modifications. 

[MrSurly]

The current discussion is not aided by the repeated citation of the MMWA as it truly doesn't have anything to do with the EPA certification.

The MMWA simply means that they can't say "You MUST use HD branded oil fiters" to maintain your warranty. You can use any brand of maintenance products to *MAINTAIN* your bike. Note that means to "keep it the same" but with fresh products like filters.

If you want to CHANGE the bike, you are outside the scope of MMWA.
The EPA says you can't CHANGE any part that affects, or is related to the emissions system. If you swap mufflers with an EPA compliant aftermarket muffler, the MMWA actually could apply to support your using the aftermarket part, but it doesn't matter, because the EPA stamp overrides MMWA AND Harley on this. EPA has 'blessed' that muffler so HD can't object.

Now, if you want to use a NON-compliant part on emissions parts (muffler,say), it doesn't make a damn that MMWA says it's OK to use that brand... because the EPA says NO, and the EPA mandate completely overrides MMWA.

Magnussen-Moss really has no place in the discussion about the EPA compliance unless you are comparing MoCo EPA Compliant parts to AFTERMARKET EPA Compliant parts.