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Author Topic: patience HD says!!  (Read 6262 times)

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Para Bellum

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Re: patience HD says!!
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2018, 09:16:01 PM »

another interesting paragraph from the article;

"Levatich attributed the divergent performance to "math."
"Growth percentages of a small base are easy to achieve. When you have a high base like ours, a little bit of decline shows up very quickly," he said. "We are not going to discount to increase our market share."
I see Levatich either doesn't understand math, or he's deliberately blowing smoke:  on a small base, it's easy to get a large percentage up or down.  On a large base, it takes a lot more change to get the same percentage change as a small base.

And no, a little bit of decline (or increase, for that matter) doesn't "show up quickly" on a large base.

It was obvious Levatich inherited a $hite-show from Wandell, who cheapened everything on the bikes so H-D would make more money per unit, plus more $$ from replacing the cheap $hite (sometimes several times; compensators, anyone?). 

More profit = higher stock price = bigger bonus and stock options for Wandell and his cronies.  Then he could sell his stock options at the higher stock price.  Of course, that scheme doesn't last forever; eventually, the customers realize they're being screwed, first on high prices and low quality, then again on expensive replacement parts (still made cheaply!) and ridiculous labor prices for rushed and often-incompetent techs.  Wandell bailed out at the first sign customers were wising up--all while Wandell knew his "house of cards" was going to collapse on his replacement, who would get the blame. 

It's hard to pick up the cards when they've been torched to ashes and blown away by a tornado.
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Re: patience HD says!!
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2018, 09:22:07 PM »

^^ this
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mark

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Re: patience HD says!!
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2018, 09:43:11 PM »

I too think the MoCo is in deeper trouble than mgmt is letting on.  If GM can fail, so can any company.  HD mgmt seems determined to increase sales without discounting bikes.  I wondering how long it'll be before we start seeing less profitable dealers close.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 08:01:21 AM by Mark »
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grc

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Re: patience HD says!!
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2018, 09:51:47 PM »

I see Levatich either doesn't understand math, or he's deliberately blowing smoke:  on a small base, it's easy to get a large percentage up or down.  On a large base, it takes a lot more change to get the same percentage change as a small base.

And no, a little bit of decline (or increase, for that matter) doesn't "show up quickly" on a large base.

It was obvious Levatich inherited a $hite-show from Wandell, who cheapened everything on the bikes so H-D would make more money per unit, plus more $$ from replacing the cheap $hite (sometimes several times; compensators, anyone?). 

More profit = higher stock price = bigger bonus and stock options for Wandell and his cronies.  Then he could sell his stock options at the higher stock price.  Of course, that scheme doesn't last forever; eventually, the customers realize they're being screwed, first on high prices and low quality, then again on expensive replacement parts (still made cheaply!) and ridiculous labor prices for rushed and often-incompetent techs.  Wandell bailed out at the first sign customers were wising up--all while Wandell knew his "house of cards" was going to collapse on his replacement, who would get the blame. 

It's hard to pick up the cards when they've been torched to ashes and blown away by a tornado.

The really sad part is that boards of directors keep bringing in this same kind of CEO in all kinds of companies, and the results are almost universally bad in the longer term.  I've personally seen it up close several times in the auto industry, and from a distance in other industries as well as retail.  Slash and burn CEO's do very well for themselves and their inner circle, and maybe even for stockholders in the short term, but the end result is usually bad for customers, employees, stockholders, and suppliers.  Obviously we need much better boards of directors, but considering where most of the members of boards come from I think we are just screwed.  I wonder if Harley can get the same extremely favorable deal from Uncle Sam that GM did.  If so, then perhaps they could also "reinvent" themselves while screwing their investors just like they have their customers for ages.

Jerry
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Re: patience HD says!!
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2018, 09:58:44 PM »

The auto "bankruptcies" were all about breaking the pensions, IMHO.
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Para Bellum

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Re: patience HD says!!
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2018, 11:16:05 PM »

I do think Levatich is trying to improve quality, both of the product and of the customer service, but he's fighting an uphill and into-the-wind battle.  The demographics are against him, and the market isn't patient.

It's going to be really hard to change the mindset of the snowflake kids that are coming along.  So many of them live on their phones and computers; they don't go on physical adventures; at their age,they don't have the money to buy expensive toys; many of them have an "entitled" attitude and expect someone else to pay for their wants.
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Eqcons

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Re: patience HD says!!
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2018, 06:09:49 AM »

So would building good reliable fleets. 

Or building bikes that don't cost as much well appointed cars.

Or both.

Maybe just paint all the bikes red?  Red is always good.

I agree with that entirely Don.  They have lost the plot with pricing, not just the bikes, but p&a too.  Reliability is, of course, something of a joke, which is not improving given the MoCo's eternal search for cheaper Chinese part suppliers.
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BigLew

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Re: patience HD says!!
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2018, 12:21:38 PM »

Motivated by greed brother, nothing wrong with making all the money you can. But when you overcharge and give poor service eventually it will haunt you. And believe you me it has. My local dealer has overcome a  lot of it because he is very active in the community and with his customers! I believe this will be the model for dealers that survive!

BigLew
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harleytacticalnut

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Re: patience HD says!!
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2018, 06:58:40 PM »

This is exactly what HD and the greedy dealers need. They think they can treat people anyway they want and not pay the price. This will help weed out some of the crappy dealers and set the rest of the others in their place. Much needed pain to correct the ship. If not the ship keeps sailing off into the sunset to never be seen again.
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Re: patience HD says!!
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2018, 07:16:15 PM »

I'm all for supporting American companies and American manufacturing.

Until they rip me off.

I'll still buy American, but it won't be HD, at least not unless some incredible changes happen.

Seems I'm not the only one.

The consumers are not nearly as brand loyal and/or easily duped as perhaps the MoCo believes.

Its much easier to fix a manufacturing or design issue than a chronic culture of questionable integrity.
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windjammer

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Re: patience HD says!!
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2018, 08:47:34 PM »

Either sell or spin off the Motor Clothes division and invest in product development get back to who you are or should be. Build it and they will come!
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VaEagle

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Re: patience HD says!!
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2018, 08:44:35 AM »

I wonder if the Motor Clothes Division is what is helping to keep H-D afloat....I bet there is more people who own H-D t-shirts etc. then actually own bikes.
Then you also have all the H-D licensed home decor and game devices like a corn hole game and other stuff like chairs and umbrellas.
I do wish H-D would work on bike quality improvements so an owner could just buy it and ride it without spending hundreds or thousands of dollars to get it to run right and stay on the road. They do need to get to a point where the service contract/warranty as well as the parts catalogue is a nice option but not mandatory.
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grandpadoc

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Re: patience HD says!!
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2018, 10:19:08 AM »

So would building good reliable fleets. 

Or building bikes that don't cost as much well appointed cars.

Or both.

Maybe just paint all the bikes red?  Red is always good.

Your right. I bought a very well equipped Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk for far less than a CVO and we have been having the time of our lives off-roading. My only regret is that it didn't come in red at the time.
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muddypaws

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Re: patience HD says!!
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2018, 02:08:54 PM »

I'm on my last 2017 CVO Limited. They priced me right out of the market.
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Bill

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Re: patience HD says!!
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2018, 12:12:20 PM »

I'm on my last 2017 CVO Limited. They priced me right out of the market.
I too have finally given up on all the dealer bullchit of gouging a good,loyal customer for over 25 years no matter what dealer around me. I took my gunship gray cash and redid the kitchen,living room and down payment on an in ground pool. No more new Harley for me and the wife...ever. Maybe Indian?
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