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[Boatman]

agreed with all the above  ^^^^

i remember watching a video on hd testing stuff.  letting a bike sit idling all day long in the hot sun without melting down.  maybe they should have done a high rpm all day test......

HD does not test them, the people that buy them are the testers.  Not just HD, but Ford, GM, Chrysler.  Just look at the junk diesels Ford and GM has put out that has cost the end buyers millions-not thousands.  6.0PS, 6.4PS, Duramax

[smkymtnboy]

HD does not test them, the people that buy them are the testers.  Not just HD, but Ford, GM, Chrysler.  Just look at the junk diesels Ford and GM has put out that has cost the end buyers millions-not thousands.  6.0PS, 6.4PS, Duramax

yep,sure enough!!

[SDCVO]

Yes I have. In fact I talked him out of riding “the road less traveled” with you and Miguel.

Still glad you talked me out of that!

[SDCVO]

Sumping is ABSOLUTELY NOT NORMAL OR ACCEPTABLE even if you ride the thing at redline all day long.  If Harley can't make an engine that will run over 3000 rpm for extended periods, then perhaps they should set the rev limiters at 3000 rpm.   I'm still not convinced the new seal on the oil pump cover is anything more than a band-aid.  I also think they did not address the root cause, and until they do so the potential for failures will always be there under certain conditions.

JMHO - Jerry

Couldnt agree more!

[FLSTFI Dave]

I don’t think anyone is saying it’s okay, just that it’s more than likely part of the cause.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly, no one is saying its okay.  We are saying its why some do and some don't, different riding conditions and styles are why some do and some don't.  Any riding style should be okay, if below red line. 

Sumping is ABSOLUTELY NOT NORMAL OR ACCEPTABLE even if you ride the thing at redline all day long.  If Harley can't make an engine that will run over 3000 rpm for extended periods, then perhaps they should set the rev limiters at 3000 rpm.   I'm still not convinced the new seal on the oil pump cover is anything more than a band-aid.  I also think they did not address the root cause, and until they do so the potential for failures will always be there under certain conditions.

JMHO - Jerry

True.  3000 RPM is about 78mph, and if you ride that slow in some areas you will get run over.  4000 rpm all day long should be fine.

[SDCVO]

Exactly, no one is saying its okay.  We are saying its why some do and some don't, different riding conditions and styles are why some do and some don't.  Any riding style should be okay, if below red line. 

True.  3000 RPM is about 78mph, and if you ride that slow in some areas you will get run over.  4000 rpm all day long should be fine.

I shift at low 4000's (4200-4300) normally and usually run around 3800-4000 cruising. I will say that I on ly get to ride on the weekends so last weekend 1 went 380 miles and Sunday 350 only stopping each day for gas or coffee, never for more than 30 minutes which is fairly normal for me. No doubt when I get up in the mountains I will have an hour or so where I am running hard shifting around 5000 to 5300. I will say that everytime I have sumped it has been when I have gone over 200 miles so n to sure if maybe that has something to do with it. Again

[smkymtnboy]

I shift at low 4000's (4200-4300) normally and usually run around 3800-4000 cruising. I will say that I on ly get to ride on the weekends so last weekend 1 went 380 miles and Sunday 350 only stopping each day for gas or coffee, never for more than 30 minutes which is fairly normal for me. No doubt when I get up in the mountains I will have an hour or so where I am running hard shifting around 5000 to 5300. I will say that everytime I have sumped it has been when I have gone over 200 miles so n to sure if maybe that has something to do with it. Again

this has to be getting very frustrating for you.

[Phreakyz]

I shift at low 4000's (4200-4300) normally and usually run around 3800-4000 cruising. I will say that I on ly get to ride on the weekends so last weekend 1 went 380 miles and Sunday 350 only stopping each day for gas or coffee, never for more than 30 minutes which is fairly normal for me. No doubt when I get up in the mountains I will have an hour or so where I am running hard shifting around 5000 to 5300. I will say that everytime I have sumped it has been when I have gone over 200 miles so n to sure if maybe that has something to do with it. Again

Remind me never to buy one of your used bikes!   That sounds pretty extreme?   3 grand in 6th is like 80 mph?    How fast are you traveling?     Our bikes make their power lower in the rpm range?   An hour at 5 grand?    I don’t think these bikes are made for that kind of abuse.    They are touring bikes.    Cars that run in that band have solid lifters, heavy springs and are torn down frequently?     Cars that can survive like that are over head cams with small cylinder displacements.   
Just sayin....   

[smkymtnboy]

Remind me never to buy one of your used bikes!   That sounds pretty extreme?   3 grand in 6th is like 80 mph?    How fast are you traveling?     Our bikes make their power lower in the rpm range?   An hour at 5 grand?    I don’t think these bikes are made for that kind of abuse.    They are touring bikes.    Cars that run in that band have solid lifters, heavy springs and are torn down frequently?     Cars that can survive like that are over head cams with small cylinder displacements.   
Just sayin....   

disagree

[Heatwave]

Remind me never to buy one of your used bikes!   That sounds pretty extreme?   3 grand in 6th is like 80 mph?    How fast are you traveling?     Our bikes make their power lower in the rpm range?   An hour at 5 grand?    I don’t think these bikes are made for that kind of abuse.    They are touring bikes.    Cars that run in that band have solid lifters, heavy springs and are torn down frequently?     Cars that can survive like that are over head cams with small cylinder displacements.   
Just sayin....   

Sounds like a normal day of riding for me. He never said he runs at those higher rpms in 6th gear. His description of riding is exactly how I’ve ridden motorcycles for almost 50 years and is far from abnormal. The group I ride with ride almost he same way as Alan’s description. We’re experienced riders that have ridden hundreds of thousands of miles. I would hardly call this type of riding “abuse”. And in fact a motorcycle of the past 3-4 decades can and has handled this style of riding without issue.

Nothing wrong with riding leisurely with shifting at 3500 rpms but its not for me. I’d rather be in a car if I’m going to ride THAT leisurely.

[BigLock]

Well my 18 RG in the shop now for the clutch recall now it needs the oil pump replaced also I do ride hard. Most of my riding is interstate 80 to 85 until I need gas bike has 9600 miles. My 12 RG has been rode just as hard with 55000 miles and it hasn't been into still has stock lifters. So I didn't think it's riding style just a poor engineering design.

[Heatwave]

Well my 18 RG in the shop now for the clutch recall now it needs the oil pump replaced also I do ride hard. Most of my riding is interstate 80 to 85 until I need gas bike has 9600 miles. My 12 RG has been rode just as hard with 55000 miles and it hasn't been into still has stock lifters. So I didn't think it's riding style just a poor engineering design.

For the record, the HD Regional Rep stated that my riding style was a contributing factor to my M8 engines that sumped. But my riding style is no different that decades of riding on other bikes that never sumped. He just shrugged his shoulders and said he had to say riding style was a “contributor”. Go figure!

[sadunbar]

For the record, the HD Regional Rep stated that my riding style was a contributing factor to my M8 engines that sumped. But my riding style is no different that decades of riding on other bikes that never sumped. He just shrugged his shoulders and said he had to say riding style was a “contributor”. Go figure!

Yet another reason to add to my list of "this is why I will never buy another new Harley Davidson motorcycle".   

[SDCVO]

Remind me never to buy one of your used bikes!   That sounds pretty extreme?   3 grand in 6th is like 80 mph?    How fast are you traveling?     Our bikes make their power lower in the rpm range?   An hour at 5 grand?    I don’t think these bikes are made for that kind of abuse.    They are touring bikes.    Cars that run in that band have solid lifters, heavy springs and are torn down frequently?     Cars that can survive like that are over head cams with small cylinder displacements.   
Just sayin....   

I couldn't disagree more with saying that is abuse! I don't do burnouts, wheelies, drop the clutch at stoplights. I bought the bike and installed the stage 4 that is made to run higher in the revs and that's where it makes its power. I ride the same now as I have my entire adult life (be 60 in July) and have never had issues like this on any motorcycle I have ever owned including my previous Harleys. I have a 12 Roadglide currently with 70000 miles. Also I try to never go more than 10 over speed limit on the freeways as I drive a company car and could lose it if I got to many points on my record. Currently have had 1 ticket in the last 5 years (thanks JC..  )
When I first sat down with the rep from moco he also tried to blame my riding style for my bike continuing to sump and was also implying I was abusing my bike actually saying that he saw on my work orders that I was going through rear tires about every 5000 miles. I said that obviously since he could see that I used that dealer to replace all my tires I would also use them to replace any broken belts, excessive brake wear etc and asked him if he saw any of that which he agreed that he didn't. As a point of information I replace my tires as soon as I start seeing the wear bars get close so though of course I still go through tires quickly, I am sure I could get another 1000 miles out of each if I really tried.
I have ridden with many here on this forum and I don't think anyone would agree with you that I abuse my motorcycle..

[SDCVO]

For the record, the HD Regional Rep stated that my riding style was a contributing factor to my M8 engines that sumped. But my riding style is no different that decades of riding on other bikes that never sumped. He just shrugged his shoulders and said he had to say riding style was a “contributor”. Go figure!

Obviously this is the "go to" for all the reps at the moco. Disgusting