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Author Topic: Nitrogen  (Read 2588 times)

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grim

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Nitrogen
« on: October 15, 2018, 10:22:25 AM »

Once a year I do a 7-9000 Mile ride and have been changing tires due to cupping more than wear. Ive noticed on my TPMS when hot sometimes my rear tire has over 55 lbs of air in it and front near 50. I have double checked with a gauge. Im thinking this might be why my tires are cupping. When I returned from my last trip I let the air out of the rear and tried Nitrogen. Pressure went from 40-48. So I thought I would try to evacuate the air from the rear with a vacuum pump. That just popped the tire from the bead. Had to replace tire anyways so I cleaned wheel and new tire with alcohol. Had to use quite a bit of pressure to seal it. Put a vacuum pump on it for 5 min. then filled it with Nitrogen. Took it for a 1 hour ride and pressure stayed at 40. Wont know for sure if this is going to work till next season but it is looking good so far. I also had an AC Vacuum pump and Nitrogen bottle at work so cost was minimal.
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CHH_Badkarma

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Re: Nitrogen
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2018, 10:34:43 AM »

All that work just to get out the 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.04% carbon dioxide that was not already nitrogen.

Was your one hour ride just as you would normally right or was it conservative?
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grim

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Re: Nitrogen
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2018, 11:04:37 AM »

A normal ride would be two up and heavily loaded, it was not that. But it was the same ride that the day before it went up to 48lbs. 1 hour at highway speeds.
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grc

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Re: Nitrogen
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2018, 11:53:44 AM »


Your test results are somewhat suspect.  Nitrogen expands and contracts with temperature changes just like other gases.  In the range of temps normally found in tires, the typical change would be about 1 psi for every 10°F change in temperature.  If you started out with a cold tire pressure of 40 psi and then rode for an hour at highway speeds, unless the outside temperature dropped enough to offset the temperature increase in the tire due to friction your actual tire pressure would have increased.  Btw, that 1 psi for every 10°F change in temperature is also the approximate figure for good old atmospheric air (which is about 78% nitrogen).  If you want a valid comparison in your experiment, you will also need to measure tire temperatures, not just pressure.

Jerry
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JCZ

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Re: Nitrogen
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2018, 12:20:14 PM »

About 8 years ago I thought nitrogen was hocus pocus (just like they used to say about synthetic oil when it first came out)....but when I went to get new tires they offered it for free so I went for it.  I got more miles out of both the front and rear than I'd ever gotten before.  I thought that might be a anomaly so I tried it again with the same results.  I then tried nitrogen in the car tires and found similar results.  And my truck.

Two things I noticed...especially in my truck.  I wasn't loosing pressure any more (that alone makes it worth it cuz checking pressure on duallys is a PITA!) and I noticed a slight increase in mileage along with more even tire wear.

Fast forward to two years ago I bought my 42' toyhauler that ways 10 1/2 tons.  The guy that I was buying from owned a professional bicycle racing team and he went on to tell me the difference it was making in their bicycle races and that all racers are now using nitrogen and that he uses it in everything he owns.  So.........I keep nitrogen in my RV tires, my truck and my motorcycle.  And......I've never paid for it.  It's free when you get new tires and free when you do check pressure where you bought your tires.  I've gotten where I just don't check pressure any more.  I have TPMS on my RV tires and it's amazing that they're still at 110 psi cold, in the mornings when we get ready to start out.

I don't have anything to do with the nitrogen industry.....just sharing my personal experience.  I do believe that people are resistant to change and much like synthetic oil, eventually everybody will cross over.  You just have to decide for yourself but there are a hell of a lot of nay sayers that have never tried it.  :nixweiss:
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Threephase

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Re: Nitrogen
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2018, 01:34:52 PM »

I have started using helium in mine. Makes the bike feel lighter. And since it provides lift, I am getting better MPG's.


This message was submitted in "sarcasm" font. 🤓
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grc

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Re: Nitrogen
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2018, 01:56:53 PM »


The science is still the science, no matter how many people try to claim otherwise.  Assuming you use atmospheric air from a source with an effective dryer to minimize moisture content, you are starting out with almost 80% nitrogen anyway.  The oxygen molecules are more reactive than nitrogen, and over time could have an adverse affect on the rubber.  Of course the outside of the tire doesn't get a choice, and it's always exposed to not only atmospheric air but also ozone, which is more damaging to the rubber than plain oxygen.  Independent testing comparing long term leakage between tires with regular old air and tires with 98% nitrogen have shown a very small advantage for nitrogen, perhaps one or two psi over a year (not mounted on a car, just filled and allowed to sit).  And the fact remains that nitrogen loses pressure with changes in temperature at the same rate as atmospheric air.  So any claims of never having to check and adjust pressure are suspect at best.

As long as you can get it free, there is no reason to avoid using it.  If you have to pay for it, it is definitely not worth it.

Jerry
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iski

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Re: Nitrogen
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2018, 02:19:05 PM »

Somebody needs to invent "the next bigger better than just 100% nitrogen."  A blend of exotic gasses that cost $1 a pound, or about $40 per tire.  Claims need to be beyond the usual "I got better gas mileage" or "Tires do not lose air".  In addition to those claims maybe safety claims - "Fewer/no blowouts" or "Better handling, more responsive tread adaptation to road conditions" or "Superior traction on wet roads". People would line up to buy it.  Why?  Because they will.  Marketing beats science every day of the week.
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johnsachs

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Re: Nitrogen
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2018, 06:00:40 PM »

I have a bridge for sale. Call for price,
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J.D.

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Re: Nitrogen
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2018, 06:04:35 PM »

I run my pneumatic tools off Nitrogen tanks.  Never thought about filling up my tires with it though.  Seems like a waste of Nitrogen.
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CVODON

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Re: Nitrogen
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2018, 12:12:58 PM »

I worked in chemical industry for 12 years, we split natural feed to formulate many gas products including gasoline, ethylene, propane and nitrogen. Nothing wrong with using nitrogen in tires if it is free, but otherwise as long as the air you are using goes thru an appropriate  dryer it is just as good in all respects as nitrogen in a tire, tire MIGHT last longer and hold pressure better if it were encased in nitrogen both inside and outside but this can't happen as the outside is always in normal air and humidity and temperature changes. So like above poster "I've got a nice bridge for sale if your a Harley rider you might be interested".
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dayne66

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Re: Nitrogen
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2018, 01:24:54 PM »

I have started using helium in mine. Makes the bike feel lighter. And since it provides lift, I am getting better MPG's.


This message was submitted in "sarcasm" font. 🤓
Has it adversely affected traction ?
 
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iski

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Re: Nitrogen
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2018, 01:55:48 PM »

Has it adversely affected traction ?

Don't know about traction, if you do a burnout it will be a high pitched squeaky sounding burnout.
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johnsachs

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Re: Nitrogen
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2018, 06:22:59 PM »

Don't know about traction, if you do a burnout it will be a high pitched squeaky sounding burnout.
;D  ;D
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Threephase

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Re: Nitrogen
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2018, 10:02:41 PM »

Dang it, I wish I had thought of the squeaky comment. That there was funny stuff.
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Para Bellum

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Re: Nitrogen
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2018, 02:15:55 AM »

I run my pneumatic tools off Nitrogen tanks.  Never thought about filling up my tires with it though.  Seems like a waste of Nitrogen.
Good one!  You ought to partner up with the guy who told me he was going to convert his car to run on compressed air (stored in the gas tank).  After the air went through the engine, he would recycle it into the gas tank, and just keep doing that.  Said his fuel cost would be zero after paying for the first tank of compressed air.  Still waiting for him to do it.   ;) ;)
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