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[REGGAB]

I am also having trouble with  my thundermax unit but my bike is rideable wish i would of found this site before i bought one ......i am getting pinging @ 3000 rpms like if I'm running between 65 and 70mph and i roll on the throttle i hear it ping just a couple times before the t max i had the power commander3 had it tuned the tuner said he could"nt get the ping out at that rpm also...Emailed zippers they had me lower the timing in that rpm range by -1 in a smoothing effect didn't help went all the way to - 3 still pinged .Emailed then again told me to add gas in those area's till i found it didn't ping anymore i also thought this tmax was suppose to do it for me..What i have is a 2005 roadking 95" kit with SE flat top pistons, SE air filter,37g cams,2 into 1 fatcat exhaust, heads ported and polished for a 9:8-1 they told me to use map #275 hope this is the right map.. Also sorry to hear other people are having troubles also....... Glad i kept my PC3 looks like i might need it and also a better tuner..................

Hey Bro........and welcome to CVO Harley!!  I'm a second time PCIIIUSB owner.  I've run a SERT before, and after dealing with that, the PC is much easier.  Remember, the SERT's second middle name is RACE.........and it's map, like the PC is a spreadsheet...........but each cell has to be tuned individuallly.........and that takes time........and unless you're racing.......it isn't worth it.  Stick with the PC.  It's good, its fast, and in the hands of a competent tuner, there isn't much better than a PC.  Again, welcome aboard!

[Rhino]

The difference between the PC and the TMAX is substantial. The PC is an add on device to the existing ECM, and actually fools the stock ECM to run at the requested AFR's and timing etc. Not that this is a bad thing, but if Harley changes the ECM software, or does a code change, it can be a little problem.  I hear 08 is going to be one of those years..   The TMAX requires total removal of the Stock ECM, and is a total replacement.  And if you did not do unmapped custom work, then the pre made maps are quite a nice fit. (99%...yes a few are having trouble but out of thousands in the market the odds are very good) and then you have a very nice simple control system that requires no tuner. Me personally I LIKE that independence.

Rhino

I'm a second time PCIIIUSB owner.  I've run a SERT before, and after dealing with that, the PC is much easier.  Remember, the SERT's second middle name is RACE.........and it's map, like the PC is a spreadsheet...........but each cell has to be tuned individuallly.........and that takes time........and unless you're racing.......it isn't worth it.  Stick with the PC.  It's good, its fast, and in the hands of a competent tuner, there isn't much better than a PC.  Again, welcome aboard!

[REGGAB]

The difference between the PC and the TMAX is substantial. The PC is an add on device to the existing ECM, and actually fools the stock ECM to run at the requested AFR's and timing etc. Not that this is a bad thing, but if Harley changes the ECM software, or does a code change, it can be a little problem.  I hear 08 is going to be one of those years..   The TMAX requires total removal of the Stock ECM, and is a total replacement.  And if you did not do unmapped custom work, then the pre made maps are quite a nice fit. (99%...yes a few are having trouble but out of thousands in the market the odds are very good) and then you have a very nice simple control system that requires no tuner. Me personally I LIKE that independence.

Rhino

I'd like that too, but after seeing what Don is going through.  NAH!!!!!

[leoniru]

Hope no one gets pixxed at me for asking this, 'cause I certainly am not trying to steer this thread off on a tangent, but this seems like as good a place as any to ask this. If the powers that be think this should be a separate thread, then so be it. It's just that after following this thread with bated breath, and reading EVERY post closely, I still want to know if there is ANYONE who has had either good or bad experiences with the TMAT on a COMPLETELY STOCK '07 SERK  ---- and by completely stock I mean exactly that. Not with a different set of pipes or AC or cams, etc., etc.
I, like some others, thought that the TMAT was the way to go, and if not for the fact that my cash flow (and not having a laptop at present) wouldn't allow, I'd have put one of the suckers on by now. After reading this thread though, I'm almost glad I didn't. Kind of similar to the Rinehart TD situation but decidedly worse.
Again, is there anyone having problems with the TMAT on an otherwise COMPLETELY STOCK SERK?

[Rhino]

Me, not at all, and not at all with a pipe change, and not at all with a cam change....  I must be the lucky one according to this thread. Everyone has an opinion, and for 800 bucks, it was not an easy decision, and I always had that 30 days to return it, no questions asked, if I did not like it. I fell in love and the love affair continues.  Other people have other opinions, but that is to be expected, my best advice is to try it, risk free, and make your own decisions. No matter what, yes I am very biased, and have had lots of experience with the TMAX in a lot of diff. bikes.   I still suggest do your own research, and weigh everything properly. In the end, you will find the way.  PS I also first had SERT for the heat, and no one could tune it. I skipped the PC route, since it did not do what I wanted it to do. And I could go on, but I won't. I am a bit tired of this thread as far as informational content. It's getting thin.

Rhino

[Ironhorse]

A couple of things to keep in mind.

You need to be careful of when dealing with Zippers and their 30 day return policy. You need to plan accordingly to the date. Don't buy it and shelf it "for later install", because if you do, and you need support, it will NOT come right away. It is not unheard of to have a 3-5 day time period between e-mails and phone calls with Zippers. So a "simple" issue can take weeks to resolve just due to slow communication. And, if you need the special attention of Danny Fitzmaurice, that can take weeks, and months. If you do have some tech problems, regardless of how things turn out, do not post unfavorably of Zippers. And please refrain from speaking your heart and mind. As Don, myself, and several others have found out, Zippers will just cut you off and leave you hanging.

The good news is that if your Zippers issues are tuning related, Rhino over here can help you out. He knows how to tweak, adjust, and tune. And he gets back to you a LOT faster than Zippers ever could.

[leoniru]

Thanx Rhino and Ironhorse;
I guess it comes down to literally a roll of the dice wrt the TMAT and my specific bike making good karma or not right off the bat -- i.e. provided the startup base map is a good match and I don't flub it up on install/initialization.
Speaking of the base map, Rhino, would you know what map no. would be recommended for my completely stock '07 SERK? I know the maps are listed in the download, but with dial-up internet, it will take me literally hours to do the complete download. If you know, fine, if not, no biggie.

Also, makes me kind of ticked at the MoCo for not marketing a bike which DID NOT require aftermarket or after sale ECM, etc. mods. Seems to me that if H-D were to step-up and do the 'right thing', they would recall EVERY 110" bike in whatever configuration (you could opt-out if desired) and go over them and make them right ON THEIR NICKEL. Whatever it took, be it a SERT with tune, new engine, etc.
A recall, so to speak.
Yeah, I guess I'm dreamin' some, but that's my 2 cents.

[SBB]

Leoniru

It's ok to dream!
Just don't bet the farm on it.

 

[bisounours]

Speaking of the base map, Rhino, would you know what map no. would be recommended for my completely stock '07 SERK?

I think that it's #379 (date : 04-03-2007)

Jacques

[Unbalanced]

Leoniru,

There are 2 maps for the 110" to look at #236 11/14/2006 and #379 4/03/2007 as posted above.   The wording is exactly the same on both of them in the base map listing.   I would try the #379 first though.

I am attaching for you the list converted from xml to xls (excel) so it can be posted here.




 

[grc]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also, makes me kind of ticked at the MoCo for not marketing a bike which DID NOT require aftermarket or after sale ECM, etc. mods. Seems to me that if H-D were to step-up and do the 'right thing', they would recall EVERY 110" bike in whatever configuration (you could opt-out if desired) and go over them and make them right ON THEIR NICKEL. Whatever it took, be it a SERT with tune, new engine, etc.
A recall, so to speak.Yeah, I guess I'm dreamin' some, but that's my 2 cents.

leoniru,

Before you folks with the 110's start feeling like the lone stranger, I remember posting a very similar diatribe two years ago about my 103.  The fact of the matter is that the MoCo has done a totally lousy job of incorporating EFI and meeting emissions regulations on all their bikes.  Rather than take the lessons learned from the auto industry over the past 20 years and apply them to motorcycle EFI, H-D continues to go with the cheapest method that lets them just squeeze by.  Then they make more money selling us parts like the SERT to make the f'n bike run properly, simultaneously thumbing their noses at us and the EPA.  Personally, I'm hoping the EPA busts their azz big-time.  Maybe once the government takes away the crutch of retuning the bikes after the sale, the MoCo will have to do this chit right if they want to continue selling their crap.  

JMHO - Jerry

[bc]

[quote ... Maybe once the government takes away the crutch of retuning the bikes after the sale, the MoCo will have to do this chit right if they want to continue selling their crap.  [/quote]

Problem is, they'll be "tamper" proof (I hate that word) and just as marginal.

bc

[Rhino]

I was instructed in the case of two identical maps, to always use the newest update. Therefore the higher number 379 wins.  I do not know which mods, or changes were made, but they said always minor.  Go wth the latest. 

Rhino

Leoniru,

There are 2 maps for the 110" to look at #236 11/14/2006 and #379 4/03/2007 as posted above.   The wording is exactly the same on both of them in the base map listing.   I would try the #379 first though.

I am attaching for you the list converted from xml to xls (excel) so it can be posted here.




 

[Talon]

I'm not trying to steer this thread in a different direction, just a comment. I've decided with all the problems creeping up with the TMAT, that I don't want to get caught up in this mess. It might be a great unit someday, just not today! Now I have to decide between the SERT, and the PCIII, I have people around that can do either, but the SERT guys are dealers and I tend to try to stay away from the ones around here if possible.

[grc]

I'm not trying to steer this thread in a different direction, just a comment. I've decided with all the problems creeping up with the TMAT, that I don't want to get caught up in this mess. It might be a great unit someday, just not today! Now I have to decide between the SERT, and the PCIII, I have people around that can do either, but the SERT guys are dealers and I tend to try to stay away from the ones around here if possible.

Talon,

At this point, I believe your approach is the prudent and proper course.  Unfortunately, Zippers and ThunderHeart have not met their advertised claims for either the plain T-Max or the TM-AT.  Too many issues, too little support, and a totally lousy attitude toward customers who have the audacity to complain when the system does not perform as advertised.  Dealing with them seems to come down to a crap shoot; as Dirty Harry so nicely put it, "do you feel lucky"?

I have been stumping for a wide band closed loop system since I joined this forum, since that is still the best long term tuning solution for those of us who don't own a personal dyno.  I had really hoped the TM-AT would be the answer.  Now I think anyone looking for that type of system may be better off looking at the Daytona Twin-Tech or one of the other systems becoming available.

Jerry