Topic: Let's Talk 113 (Read 4978 times)

ggraves427 · « **on:** December 02, 2005, 04:40:06 PM »

So I'm thinking about what my 04 SEEG wants for Christmas and I thought about the 113. I called the local stealer and the first thing he says is that he has to change the heads and that is $1,000.00 for the heads. Says the 113 pistons won't work on the 103 heads. I was thinking pistons and jugs. Do you have to change the heads? The reason I am asking here is that I can get more reliable information here than I can get from the stealer.

syclone · « **Reply #1 on:** December 02, 2005, 06:27:24 PM »

Yep ...you have to change the heads cause they are a "hemi" design with HUGE chambers..like 91cc. OR have the them welded up and re-machined by someone like SBC..and thats $1000.00.
Start adding up the parts , including the labor, and dont forget the $300.00 for the timken update on your cases. Cams , heads, cylinders, bore the cases to fit the cylinders, and you end up with used cylinders, CVO cams no one wants, CVO heads ...E-Bay??
When to get near that $6000.00 mark that 120 Jims sure starts to look better and better..It's really bullet proof for any kind of street use..and you have your complete stock motor to stick back in when you sell.
The Jims has beefy cases, timken bearings on both sides, 4340 rods, roller rockers, springs that will go to .700 lift, 264 cams, adjustible pushrods,heads.forged pistons.....all the good sh*t
A Jims 120 "A" motor costs the dealer @ 6100.00. Tell them "low Gross is better than no gross" and offer them 6500.00 and let them make some money on the install.
Or ...pistons,heads and cams for your 103 ...can make some really good power for way less money....the 113 just doesnt make $$$$$$ sense to me.
But hey..just throwin out some ideas.

fatboyse2 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 02, 2005, 06:32:33 PM »

After taking my 103SE to the limit (see going for broke). I suggest a JIMs120 before going to the 113. Certainly you'ld get more for your money.

mdduce · « **Reply #3 on:** December 02, 2005, 06:37:26 PM »

IM DOING THIS AS WE SPEAK . the dealer says you can run the cnc ported heads from 95" motor but it wont flow as good as the 103 plus heads,but the 103 plus heads from harley are not ported or polished from what i understand,keep in mind i am just a coustomer having this done so i only know what i have read and been told by harley !I have posted stuf about this little undertaking on the scramingeagle,site,i am doing the pistons heads, well the whole kit.

mdduce · « **Reply #4 on:** December 02, 2005, 06:49:43 PM »

what the other fellow is telling you is good advice on the jim's direction i just got a good deal on what im doing because they havent done one around this area yet and they offerd what i belive or know is a good deal to do it ,thats the only reason; plus you wont be able to tell thet iv'e done this just by looking at it,heeee I just hope it runs pretty good

Unbalanced · « **Reply #5 on:** December 02, 2005, 09:42:56 PM »

Quote

Plus you won't be able to tell I did this.

First off the juggs are bigger, there is a bolt through the cases in between the juggs, and your going to prolly change your heads unless you have them welded up. More than likely you will also be looking for a larger throttle body or carb.

Your reasonably correct that 95 percent of the people out there will have no idea you done anything other than leave them in the dust. There is though another 5 percent that will ask you what the mods are.

Grover · « **Reply #6 on:** December 02, 2005, 10:06:08 PM »

I'm in the process of doing the 113 also. The only reason is because dealership is eating all the labor and are giving me a hell of a price on parts. (See 103 blown motor in T.C. section.)
I had my CNC SE heads flowed to see if it they're good enough for the bigger jugs. They are at 161 cfm. Speed shop said that is a good enough flow rate for the 113. And that the xtra $$ to have them ported more would'nt be worth it for the performance gain that it would achieve. Does anybody disagree?

Grover

Unbalanced · « **Reply #7 on:** December 03, 2005, 08:32:26 AM »

Grover,

161 CFM at where? 25 at 10 ... What intake what exhaust. What are the valve clearances? Have the rocker boxes been clearanced if so to what so you know what cam you can run.

Cant just go by a flow number. There are all sorts of games you can play with CFM you just have to know the questions to get validity on the answer.

Grover · « **Reply #8 on:** December 03, 2005, 10:39:57 PM »

Unbalanced,
  I don't have the flow sheet results in front of me. I took my heads to a VERY REPUTABLE SPEED SHOP in my area to get them flowed for compatability on a 113 motor.
  The tech called me and said that they would work just fine. That the $$ of porting them, to gains I would get would not be justified. I just asked him what they flowed at; he told me 161 on intake and (I think it was) upper 140's on exhaust. I'm going with an S&S gear drive set-up, 625g cam. They are taking care of all the head work and yes; the rocker boxes have been clearanced to except the cams.
  I just tossed out the flow # because that's all I asked the tech over the phone at the time. And I just wanted to know what another SE CNC head flowed at to compare to mine!! I don't know all the indepth technicalities on engine building...that's why I take it to the professionals to be done.
  SO IF I IRRITATED YOU WITH MY IGNORANCE [smiley=duhk.gif], SORRY!!!

But that's what this site is all about. To get more KNOWLEDGE from all the EXPERTS that have been there and done that; RIGHT?! [smiley=confused5.gif]
Thanks for the input, and don't take my sarcasm personal. That's just my goofy humor at times.

Take care, [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
Grover

Unbalanced · « **Reply #9 on:** December 03, 2005, 11:06:31 PM »

Grover,

I threw out the questions to allow you to ask more questions to learn / share with us. If your getting 161 at 25 then we would want to inform you to look other places. Ask the guys specifically about what they are doing to get you a 161 CFM... EG what the setup on the flow bench.

What compression are you going to run the 625 cam at. That cam likes to run over 10.5 to 1 .. and does well at 11.0 to 1.

Are you planning on going with compression releases?
-harry

Grover · « **Reply #10 on:** December 03, 2005, 11:32:50 PM »

The compression will be @10.5:1
HALS Speedshop here in Wisconsin is doing the head work, and also guiding me along with the other mods to complete the 113. But my dealership is doing the assembly due to warranty. I'll ask them next week for the flow sheets. Then I'll post them for you to look over.

Thanks for the reply [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

Grover

d-rock · « **Reply #11 on:** December 04, 2005, 06:51:51 PM »

I went the same route as Grover my dealer took the labor from ext. warr. from my blown motor. I havn't seen a Jims 120 yet but I have to say my 113 has a ton of power and I am happy with the set up so far. I puttin in the six gear now and the new throtle body before the dyno and can't wait to see the numbers. The best part of the 103+ heads are that no one knows in advance that I goin by in a hurry

Grover · « **Reply #12 on:** January 08, 2006, 01:05:39 PM »

Quote

Grover,

161 CFM at where? 25 at 10 ... What intake what exhaust. What are the valve clearances? Have the rocker boxes been clearanced if so to what so you know what cam you can run.

Cant just go by a flow number. There are all sorts of games you can play with CFM you just have to know the questions to get validity on the answer.

Unbalanced,

Here is my cfm chart from awhile back. My graph is under musgrove1. They compared my heads to some hand ported ones they did for a similar motor. Any response would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Grover

DCFIREMANN · « **Reply #13 on:** January 08, 2006, 02:11:53 PM »

Just a question for those of you who are or have done the 113 conversion. When you had the cases split did you do the timken conversion?

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Grover · « **Reply #14 on:** January 08, 2006, 03:32:13 PM »

Quote

Just a question for those of you who are or have done the 113 conversion. When you had the cases split did you do the timken conversion?

Be Safe

THE DAWG

DC,
Yes, I had the timken conversion done. I also had the SE Pro crank strengthened as well.

Grover

SPIDERMAN · « **Reply #15 on:** January 08, 2006, 04:33:37 PM »

I went down this road awhile back with one of my first posts. Not knowing anyone on the site, I clammed up when everyone told me to buy a Jim's, or a Zippers etc. A few hundred posts later I have this to say. My dealer will install a complete 113 in my 03 SERK for 5K. He wants 7K for a complete and ready to install Jim's motor. (we'll leave Mr. Zipper out of this for a moment) So a motor swap out books at about 8 hours at $80/hr, so we have another $640. Now I have a good relationship with this dealer and the they know my riding habits. They advised me that I would not find the JIm's motor to me MY personal reliability standards. That'a MY standards just to be clear. AND, the cost would be at least $2,640 more. And, according to them to be legal I would need to redo my California registration to include the VIN on the Jim's motor. Bottom line for me is that once I get done with the other projects I've got going at the moment, I'm going with the dealer installed 113 and save money and hassle. Will there be speedbaggers out there who's taillights I must see on occasion. There's always someone faster somewhere. Even my 150 mph SE V-ROD got beat one day. But, the guy that beat me that day has never gone more than 2,500 miles without his bike being in the shop for MAJOR repair work.

fatboyse2 · « **Reply #16 on:** January 08, 2006, 06:16:41 PM »

I'm with you on this[smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

I spent a lot of time looking at the options and how I would use what I was spending MYHEM (my hard earned money) on. I stuck with the 103, but did everything else. My dealer service guys are always available and I've had my share of questions both smart and dumb for them. The JIMs option was seriously considered, but was 6500 installed for a 106 they had (that was discounted), the 120 was another 2+.

mdduce · « **Reply #17 on:** January 08, 2006, 07:35:50 PM »

Just got my 113" done and got my 500 miles the dealer said he wished i would put on it before jumping on it too hard.WELL so far im very satisfied and supprised at the seat of the pants difference!I am going to the tuner and dyno thur or fri. will let you know what it does,like you said you wont ever be the badest thing out there,that is if you are actualy riding a lot casule and hard,with dependability.

SPIDERMAN · « **Reply #18 on:** January 08, 2006, 07:42:33 PM »

What did it cost you ? What heads, pistons, cams etc

Unbalanced · « **Reply #19 on:** January 08, 2006, 10:30:56 PM »

Grover,

I would only ask one more thing of Hal's what are the numbers at 10" with your intake on the there and not an 8" stack. See the key is here is what is it going to push with your setup. Standardization is great, but real world is with your intake and I would have loved to have seen a comparison with your intake on there compared to the short stack.

Other than that it looks good a slight deviation on the red line for the exhaust port but within range and nothing to be concerned with.

-harry

Grover · « **Reply #20 on:** January 10, 2006, 10:09:21 PM »

Unbalanced,
Thanks for your input! I sent you a pm.

Unbalanced · « **Reply #21 on:** January 11, 2006, 07:20:51 PM »

Thanks Grover I responded.

mdduce · « **Reply #22 on:** January 11, 2006, 09:05:36 PM »

Well got dyno done today on 113 build put on a v&h two into one and got 120.8 hp 130.4 tq, I think that is pretty good,does that sound about right it seems real good at the seat of the pants,but its the first big inch motor I"ve ever had.

Grover · « **Reply #23 on:** January 11, 2006, 09:31:18 PM »

mdduce,

Congrats on your new mods! It should really liven up that Duece!
If you don't mind me asking, what cams, throttle body size, and did you go with the timken bearing or the bearing support.

Take care,

Grover

Unbalanced · « **Reply #24 on:** January 13, 2006, 08:11:16 AM »

mdduce,

That is right in the ballpark. The 4 I have heard about have been 125 to 134 Torque and 120 to 128 hp. I would say your right there in the mix. Congrats I know that has gotta be a ton of fun to hold on to.

mdduce · « **Reply #25 on:** January 22, 2006, 10:07:08 AM »

SORRY SO SLOW TO GET BACK!IPUT THE 264 cams from harley 50mm throtelbody 113 stroker crank kit rollers perfict fit push rods 103plus heads,I did not do the timken swap,because of the dealership that done the build,said only way they would stand behind it was too go by harley"suggested build specs?wellllllllll see how that goes!I also put the thunderheader on not for looks but for going light too light the v&h bigshots just didn"t have the #s.OH I FORGOT THE 10.5 TO1 HARLEY PISTONS.Aint this stuff fun,already got 755 miles on it 2.5 weeks dead of winter! its been realy warm here 4 or 5 days this month.

Grover · « **Reply #26 on:** January 22, 2006, 11:38:28 AM »

Thanks for the info mdduce. Now you'll be changing that rear tire more frequently... that's the cost of power though.

I sure hope the lower bearings hold up for the long haul. But as long as the dealership stands behind it that's o.k. I'd almost want that in writing though.

Good luck, enjoy, and ride on!! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

Take Care,

Grover

mdduce · « **Reply #27 on:** January 22, 2006, 01:15:14 PM »

I did get it in writing,they are to stand behind it for the remainder of the 7 year warranty,5yr's 4mo left,this is what made me go with the harley 113'' instead of jims or zippers plus still have all original #s on bike and they wont baulk on the tranny if it spits it out.But i realy doint want to test them on it either,stealers are realy good at backing up writing or not!I like you,it will be amaizing if the bottom will really take the preasure as is but they were strong against timkin doint think i will ever understand that mind set.Hence the 113" their way!!!!!!!!!Thanks for the reply.PS i also put a ness big sucker breather,ran again and got those last numbers i posted.124hp 134.8

mdduce · « **Reply #28 on:** January 22, 2006, 01:22:25 PM »

I did get it in writing,they are to stand behind it for the remainder of the 7 year warranty,5yr's 4mo left,this is what made me go with the harley 113'' instead of jims or zippers plus still have all original #s on bike and they wont baulk on the tranny if it spits it out.But i realy doint want to test them on it either,stealers are realy good at backing up writing or not!I like you,it will be amaizing if the bottom will really take the preasure as is but they were strong against timkin doint think i will ever understand that mind set.Hence the 113" their way!!!!!!!!!Thanks for the reply.PS i also put a ness big sucker breather,ran again and got those last numbers i posted.124hp 134.8tq

Road_Glider · « **Reply #29 on:** January 22, 2006, 01:26:52 PM »

mddeuce, man sounds like a sweet deuce you got there. Would love to have that HP and TQ on a deuce. Bet you are gonna have some fun this spring and summer.
Let's see some pics of that baby.

Thumper007 · « **Reply #30 on:** March 03, 2006, 10:01:19 AM »

i got a 04 seeg and i was talking to my local stealer about a little h.p. up grade ......and my stealer is trying to talk me in to the 113 conversion , my question is hows the "vibration" and "heat" on this set up, he wants to give me good deal, i want to stay with all hd parts so i'am not thinking of using any after market products any advise from 113 coversion owners thanks in advance

mdduce · « **Reply #31 on:** March 03, 2006, 09:31:32 PM »

Done it and like it,1700 miles so far flawess,you will like the power lower end too top end realy is great ,but i did jump from a 95"duce too 113" ha ha its fun to ride!

Author Topic: Let's Talk 113 (Read 4978 times)

SPIDERMAN

SPIDERMAN